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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Is It An Iwagumi?? Updated 15.07.09
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Is It An Iwagumi?? Updated 15.07.09
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: Is It An Iwagumi?? Updated 15.07.09 Reply with quote

 For  a  long  time  I  was  planning  to  setup  and  Iwagumi.  read  a  lot  in  Net.  But  as   I  kept  on  reading,  I  was  getting  more  confused  on  the  key  points.  So  gave  up   on  that  thought  and  planned  to  make  a  Simple  Rock  scape  like  below.
 
 
 
 Then  after  reading  the  inputs  given  by  Madan  Sir,  for  last  couple  of  week,  I  again  started  to  think  on  an  Iwagumi.  And  just  now  I  have  created  this  Rock  Setup  keeping  all  the  technical  points  in  mind.  But  not  sure  if  it  qualifies  as  an  Iwagumi.  Sorry  for  the  poor  light,  as  my  original  light  set  went  kaput  yesterday.
 
 
 
 I  tried  to  make  it  a  Sanzon  Iwagumi  (3  Pillers  Setup).  The  tank  does  not  have  a  proper  dimension.  It's  24x18x12.  The  width  is  too  less  to  make  an  good  Iwagumi  I  think.   Sad  
 
 1.  4  white  spots  are  4  Focal  Point  according  to  golden  ratio.  (I  cropped  top  of  the  tank  to  avoid  ugly  water  marks).
 
 2.  The  Main  Rock  Pointing  to  Left  and  the  peak  is  touching  one  focal  point  (Almost).  
 
 3.  The  supporting  rocks  are  moving  out  from  the  focal  points.
 
 Will  wait  for  your  feedback  and  criticism  to  learn  this  technique  better.   Thumb Up


Last edited by Tirtha C on Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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mandragoran
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 Tirtha,
 
 All  I  can  offer  are  a  couple  of  simple  suggestions-  certainly  not  an  expert  in  Iwagumi,  though.
 
 I  would  reposition  the  rock  on  the  left  slightly,moving  it  clockwise  and  shifting  the  base  such  that  the  peak/tip  intersects  that  first  focal  point  (clockwise,  from  top  left).  In  addition  to  this,  I  would  shift  the  rock  on  the  right  anti-clockwise  such  that  its  slope  cuts  across  the  third  focal  point  (clockwise,  from  topleft).  In  fact,  the  focal  point  here  would  be  the  slope  of  this  rock  cutting  across  the  body  of  the  main  rock  behind.
 
 As  far  as  the  support  rock  goes,  I  feel  it  would  be  better  if  the  third  one  was  bigger  than  it  is  now.  I  don;t  think  this  rock  is  big  enough  to  support  the  others.
 
 Also,I  would  look  at  shifting  the  whole  arrangement  to  a  left-side  orientation,  since  that's  one  of  the  things  Mr.Amano  mentioned  dueing  his  Q&A  session  at  Aquatika.  
 
 HTH,   Thumb Up  
 
 Ashwin
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Seetharam
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 Hey  Tirtha
 
 I  personally  like  the  first  one,  a  split  scape  Iwagumi  has  always  been  my  favourite,  however  it  needs  a  3rd  piece  to  complete  the  scape  to  qualify  as  an  Iwagumi.
 
 In  the  second  one,  Keeping  all  stone  inclinations  the  same,  I  would  bring  the  primary  stone  in  front  and  move  the  sub  stone  to  the  back.  In  the  current  placement  the  substone  is  highlighted  more  as  it  is  in  the  front  which  should  not  be  the  case.
 
 There  are  a  couple  of  things  you  can  consider  ,  but  its  too  huge  to  list  out  here,  Please  check  your  mail   Smile
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maximus
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 Tirthada,
 Well  I  am  too  novice  to  comment  on  this  scape.But  if  you  ask  me  I  would  love  to  go  with  the  split  scape  rather  than  the  sanzon  iwagumi.The  first  pic  shows  great  character  of  the  rocks.Well  I  feel  a,as  Seetharam  has  suggested,a  third  rock  on  the  left  side  would  complete  the  connection  and  a  few  small  rocks  on  the  right  side  would  show  how  with  time  and  ages  the  rocks  have  disintegrated  but  still  have  a  bond  of  unity  inbetween  them.I  mean  the  invisible  connection  string  between  the  rocks  that's  so  often  talked  about  in  Iwagumi.
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mmb19000
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 I  m  also  not  an  expert.  Just  read  info  about  Iwagumi.
 
 I  read  about  golden  ratio.  in  above  setup  i  think  that  golden  ratio  is  not  maintained.  IMO  The  bigger  rock  should  be  more  towards  Left  side.
 
 but  its  my  opinion  only.   Smile
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garothmaan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 according  to  my  view,  it  looks  like  two  frogs  sitting  together  in  a  public  toilet  :cry:
 
 sorry  Surprised
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mmb19000
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

                                                   
garothmaan  wrote  (View  Post):                
according  to  my  view,  it  looks  like  two  frogs  sitting  together  in  a  public  toilet  :cry:
 
 sorry  Surprised                

 
   ROFL  thts  really  funny  garothmaan
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

                                                   
garothmaan  wrote  (View  Post):                
according  to  my  view,  it  looks  like  two  frogs  sitting  together  in  a  public  toilet  :cry:
 
 sorry  Surprised                

 
 ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
 
 omg
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 Thanks  Ashwin,  Seetharam,  Abhisek  and  Maulik  for  your  inputs.  
 
 Ashwin,  yes  the  rocks  needs  to  be  realigned  a  bit  to  meet  the  focal  points.  will  try  to  do  that.
 
 @Seetha,  if  I  move  the  first  supporting  stone  to  the  back,  then  the  main  rock  will  almost  touch  the  front  glass.  width  is  only  12".  But  agree  with  you  and  abhisek,  that  the  split  scape  is  looking  much  better.  I  can  add  a  second  supporting  rock  to  the  left  to  make  it  complete.  But  not  sure  about  the  technicality  involved  in  a  split  Iwagumi.   Sad  
 
 
 
 
                                                 
garothmaan  wrote  (View  Post):                
according  to  my  view,  it  looks  like  two  frogs  sitting  together  in  a  public  toilet  :cry:
 
 sorry  Surprised                

 
 Garoth,  your  comments  are  just  like  masters  strock!!  Simply  ultimate.  Hats  off  to  your  creative  thoughts.   Chuckle
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oceanhaze
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 "
 The  largest  rock  must  be  placed  to  the  LEFT  of  center  and  must  be  inclined  towards  the  left.
 The  basic  ratio  of  2:3  must  be  adhered  to  in  ANY  layout.  No  compromises.
 This  is  the  golden  rule  I  heard  him  tell  us  !  "
 
 quote  from  madan............as  told  to  us  by  the  master  himself
 
 i  believe  the  2nd  largest  rock  should  be  on  the  right  of  the  center  and   should  be  a  little  inclined  to  right.
 
 left:right  rock  ratio  =  2:3.with  largest  rock  in  the  left.
 
 but  this  has  no  relation  with  the  classic  Iwagumi  layout  which  says  "
 
 The  most  common  iwagumi  style  is  called  sanzon  iwagumi.  Sanzon  means  "three  pillar"  in  Japanese  and  these  aquascapes  make  use  of  three  rocks,  with  two  smaller  rocks  and  one  larger  rock.The  grouping  of  stones  comes  from  Buddhism;  the  central  stone  is  called  the  chuusonskei  (or  the  big  Buddha)  and  the  smaller  flanking  stones  are  called  kyoujiseki  (or  attendant  stones).  The  kyoujiseki  are  often  tilted  or  pointed  towards  the  chuusonskei  as  if  bowing  down  to  it.  The  chuusonskei  is  almost  always  positioned  according  to  the  Golden  Rule.
 
 http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2006/11/golden-rule-of-aquascaping.html
 
 the  above  link  will  give  you  the  best  idea  about  the  golden  rule.
 
 5  rocks  should  be  the  best  looking  setup.  and  odd  no  of  stones  to  be  used.
 
 rocks  should  be  large  so  as  to  keep  it  visible  when  the  plants  grow  up  and  small  support  rocks  to  be  used  for  support  only  and  covered  with  sand/substrate.
 
 and  the  substrate  should  be  spread  such  that  the  bare  tank  with  just  the  stones  should  feel  natural.That  is  it  should  appear  that  the  roods/base  of  the  rock  seem  to  emerge  from  the  bottom  making  it  give   afeeling  that  it  has  grown  like  a  tree  trunk  from  under  the  substrate.
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garothmaan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 for  the  exact  sand  orientation,  try  this
 
   close  your  eyes,  and  try  to  imagine  yourself  on  a  beach.  You  are  standing  on  a  high  rock  hill,  looking  down  on  other  towering  rocks,  its  broad  day  light,  but  not  too  much  sun,  good  white  clouds  overhead,  very  good  visibility.  The  shore  and  the  sky  are  meeting(near  horizon),  the  water  is  flowing  in  and  out,  and  now  a  larger  surge  of  wave  has  just  passed  disturbing  the  sand.        THIS  !  resettled  sand  after  the  water  returns  back,  SHOULD  be  the  best  orientation  of  this  gravel  around  the  rocks....  and  thats  what  exactly  was  done  by  Mr  Takashi  in  that  Iwagumi  tank...  remember?
 
   Smile  HOWZ  that!
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

                                                   
oceanhaze  wrote  (View  Post):                
"
 The  largest  rock  must  be  placed  to  the  LEFT  of  center  and  must  be  inclined  towards  the  left.
                 

 
 Why?
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Seetharam
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 I  have  studied  Amano's  Iwagumi  works  for  close  to  a  year  now,  there  is  no  rule  followed  by  Amano  which  says  the  main  rock  HAS  to  be  placed  on  the  left,  placements  totally  depends  on  the  characteristics  of  the  rock  which  you  want  to  showcase.  Based  on  the  positioning  of  the  Primary,  the  placement  of  supporting  and  sub  stones  are  decided.
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

                                                   
Seetharam  wrote  (View  Post):                
I  have  studied  Amano's  Iwagumi  works  for  close  to  a  year  now,  there  is  no  rule  followed  by  Amano  which  says  the  main  rock  HAS  to  be  placed  on  the  left,  placements  totally  depends  on  the  characteristics  of  the  rock  which  you  want  to  showcase.  Based  on  the  positioning  of  the  Primary,  the  placement  of  supporting  and  sub  stones  are  decided.                

 
 Exactly  this  is  what  I  am  confused  with.  I  saw  many  scapes  by  Amano  where  he  didn't  use  this  approch.  Even  the  link  you  have  forwarded  me  today  morning,  he  setup  the  scape  without  maintaining  the  above  points.  Even  the  Iwagumis  created  by  Europians  or  Americans,  I  saw  they  are  not  following  these  rules.  Last  year  AGA  2nd  Prize  winner  used  arround  40  rocks  to  setup  the  Iwagumi  where  he  didn't  use  a  specific  Main  rock  or  supporting  rocks.  But  his  scape  got  kudos  from  Mr.  Amano  himself.  
 
 Rock  Placement  in  3:2  ratio
 Golden  ratio
 Focal  Point  etc  can  be  understood.  But  rest  of  the  part  is  just  bonkers  for  me.  The  complete  Iwagumi  seems  to  be  a  confusing  concept.
 
 Better  I  will  stick  to  Rockagumi.  It  will  be  easy  for  me  to  setup.   Chuckle
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joyban
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism Reply with quote

 Hi  T2C  did  you  read  this  one  
 
 http://www.aquajournal.net/na/layout/004/index.html
 
 regards
 
 Sujoy
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