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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. Help!
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Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. Help!
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shashank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Krash,
 
 Thanks  for  your  kind  words,  but  right  now  i'm  feeling  very  guilty,  i  don't  know  if  my  male  will  survive  either.  I've  clicked  a  pic  and  showing  the  swollen  eye  in  macro.  I  hope  it  helps  to  make  your  diagnosis.  
 
 @TheChannaGuy:  I've  buried  her,  but  if  absolutely  necessary  i'm  ready  to  perform  a  post-mortem.  Thanks  for  your  kind  words,  she  was  like  an  aquatic  dog  man,  will  miss  her  terribly   Sad  
 
 Picasa  album  link:
 
 https://picasaweb.google.com/102370163467392936585/MaleFH?authkey=Gv1sRgCLeC-er68ouo8QE#5682210737243571458
 
 Youtube  video  with  better  lighting:
 
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqXXAwfo6SQ
 
 EDIT:Also,  he's  not  able  to  stay  straight  you  know,  he's  leaning  towards  his  right  when  swimming  or  idle.
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krash
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Shasahnk,
 
 saw  the  pic,  just  want  you  confirm  me  few  things  i  couldn't  see.
 
 Check  the  underside  of  his  belly.  do  you  see  reddish  pattern,  like  you  can  see  on  the  pic  of  the  dead  FH.
 
 Look  for  the  same  at  the  base  of  the  top  &  side  fins
 
 does  he  hang  just  under  the  water,  or  stay  at  the  bottom,  or  is  he  swimming  around  &  responds  to  your  presence.
 
 Regards
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shashank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Ok  i  thoroughly  checked  the  underside  of  the  belly  and  the  top  and  side  fins,  noticed  no  trace  of  reddishness  anywhere.
 
 He  does  all  of  what  you've  mentioned.  If  i  go  near  the  tank  he  responds  to  my  presence,  is  constantly  swimming  around  though  in  a  slanted  position  (leaning  to  his  right)  sometimes  he  comes  to  the  surface  and  at  times  he  prefers  to  stay  at  the  bottom.
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krash
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Ok  good  that  is  heartening  that  he  responds  to  you  &  is  moving  around,  &  that  no  redness  near  his  underbelly  or  base  of  his  fins  is  encouraging.  I  am  concerned  of  him  slanting  though,  that  shows  sign  of  an  internal  infections.  
 
 ok  will  post  the  treatment  you  have  to  follow,  just  typing  it  now
 
 TC
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shashank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 I'm  waiting  for  your  updates
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 HI  
 
 Shashank,
 
 he  has  signs  of  a  Aeromonas  bacterial  infection,  the  dead  FH  was  showing  classic  signs  of  bacterial  hemorrhagic  septicemia  (bacterial  blood  infection).  His  bulged  eyes  with  cloudiness  is  sign  of  that,  &  that  he  is  got  renal  impairment.  If  its  severe  we  might  cure  him  but  he  might  not  make  it  in  the  long  run,  but  from  what  you  said  I  am  very  hopeful.  
 
 The  problem  is  its  internal,  we  should  enable  the  drug  to  to  be  delivered  internally.  Injections  are  the  methodology  &  most  effective  at  such  stages.
 I  don't  know  if  you  are  confident,  so  I  am  listing  the  other  options  below.  We  will  observe  him  for  two  days  if  he  shows  slight  improvement  we  continue  with  that,  if  not  will  explain  how  to  go  about  the  injection.
 
 I  am  mentioning  2  methods  based  on  which  drug  you  can  source  follow  the  steps,  
 Also  the  fact  his  eyes  have  bulged  &  he  has  a  swollen  look,  I  am  guessing  he  is  retaining  fluid,  so  a  susceptible  case  of  kidney  not  functioning  well,  therefore  the  drug  choices  are  limited.  Below  i  have  listed  the  ones  I  feel  will  do  the  best  without  damaging  his  already  strained  kidneys,  but  had  it  not  been  there  we  could  have  gone  for  more  effective  aminoglycoside  antibiotics.
 
 Method  1:-
 
 Meds  required:-  
 
                                              1)  chloromphenicol.  -  available  as  chloromycetin  or  paraxin.,  buy  the  500mg  capsules.  you  will  need  50  capsules.
                                              2)  Kanamycin  -  This  is  very  difficult  to  get  so  I  am  recomending  the  acid  sulphate  version.  Its  available  as  Injection  Vials.  
                                                      Brand  name  is  Kanamac  -500.  
                                                3)  MB(methylene  blue)  -  but  from  any  LFS
                                                4)  Epsom  Salt(magnesium  sulphate)  -  you  will  need  22  sachets.
 
 Treatment  Steps:-
 
 1>>  Do  a  large  WC  about  70%  to  start  with  ,  siphon  dirt  from  the  bottom.
 2>>  If  you  are  using  a  canister  filter  ideally  switch  it  off,  or  remove  the  charcoal  medium  &  if  you  want  keep  the  biological  medium  (ceramic  rings  &  bio  balls  separate  during  the  treatment)
 3>>  Add  Epsom  salt  ,  put  in  4  sachets.
 4>>  Take  mug  &  empty  the  contents  of  the  choromphenicol  capsule  into  the  mug,  you  will  need  5  capsules.  Open  the  capsule  cover  slowly  &  empty  it.  Take  care  to  switch  of  the  fan  otherwise  the  contents  will  disperse,  also  1  in  40,000  people  have  allergy  to  chloromphenicol.  So  if  you  feel  you  have  history  of  allergy  to  some  meds,  cover  your  face  when  you  do  this.
 5>>  Mix  luke  warm  water  into  the  mug  &  stir  it  well  so  the  capsule  powder  dissolves.  Solubility  is  medium,  so  don't  worry  if  you  see  few  particles  in  the  mug.
 6>>  empty  the  contents  into  the  tank  &  mix  it  well,  wash  all  the  contents  into  the  tank  water,  if  stuck  to  the  mug.
 7>>  Keep  aeration  high,  will  recommend  you  add  an  additional  air  stone  &  motor.  Keep  temperature  at  27C  to  29C,  better  not  to  cross  30C.
 8>>  After  24  hrs  you  have  to  do  a  40%  to  50  %  WC
 
 9>>  then  follow  the  following  steps  below,  its  a  small  dip  treatment  will  greatly  help  him
 
             a)  You  will  need  a  bucket  or  a  tub,  also  air  stone  &  an  air  pump..  
             b)  Take  about  10  to  20  ltrs  water.  
             c)  Run  the  aeration  in  the  tub  or  bucket  
             d)  Add  MB  at  double  the  dosage  recommended  on  the  bottle.  
             e)  open  the  Kanmac  injection  vial.  If  you  are  using  10  ltr  water  use  half  the  powder  ,  if  20  ltrs  use  the  full  bottle.
             f)  Mix  the  contents  well  in  mug  &  pour  into  the  bucket  or  tub.
             g)  Now  put  the  fish  into  the  tub,  &  observe  him.  
             h)  After  1.5hrs  to  2  hrs  you  can  put  him  back  to  the  tank  
 
 7>>  Repeat  steps  from  3  to  8  only  difference  add  only  2  sachet  of  Epsom  salt.
 8>>  do  this  treatment  for  14  days.  That  is  14  doses
 9>>  The  dip  treatment  you  can  stop  after  10  days,  that  is  10  doses.
 
 Method  -2  
 
 Meds  required:-
 
 
                                              1)  Cephlaxin.  -  available  as  Sporidex  capsules,  buy  500mg  capsules.  you  will  need  50  capsules.
                                              2)  Minocycline  tabs  -  Its  expensive  you  will  need  10  tabs  
                                                3)  MB(methylene  blue)  -  but  from  any  LFS
                                                4)  Epsom  Salt(magnesium  sulphate)  -  you  will  need  22  sachets.
 
 Treatment  Steps:-
 
 Follow  the  same  steps  above,  few  changes  a)  instead  of  chloromphenicol  use  sporidex  capsules.  b)  Instead  of  Kanmac  use  minocycline  tabs.  the  tabs  come  in  100  mg  strength,  one  tab  per  10  ltr  water.  Powder  the  tab  well  mix  in  warm  water  (it  dissolves  well  in  water).  c)  Use  filtered  drinking  water  for  minocycline,  because  you  need  soft  water  for  this  drug.
 
 Tc,  do  inform  if  you  have  doubts,  ATB
 
 Regards


Last edited by krash on Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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shashank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 I  already  have  methylene  blue,  but  in  your  post  couldn't  find  in  which  stage  i've  to  administer  it.  Is  it  when  in  the  tank  or  in  the  tub.  Also  if  i  get  kanamycin  is  there  a  way  to  administer  it  without  injections  ?
 
 I  think  you  meant  either  kanamycin  OR  chloromphenicol  right  ?  or  is  it  both  together  ?
 
 Also  right  now  the  tank  has  about  140  litres  of  water  in  it.  Is  the  dosage  of  5  capsules  for  140  litres  or  less  ?  Is  it  recommended  i  reduce  the  water  level  in  the  tank  ?
 
 
 Also  what  is  the  quantity  of  kanamycin  I  should  buy?  If  its  tablets  and  if  its  available  as  injection  vials.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Hi  shashank,
 
 when  i  was  typing  it  got  accidentally  posted,  i  edited  it  now,  pls  read  again.
 
 MB  is  in  the  tub.
 
 if  you  reduce  your  water  level,  we  can  use  lesser  quantity  of  medication.  If  you  are  reducing  pls  post  the  height  of  the  water,  will  post  the  corrections.
 
 Regards
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Kanamycin  will  be  as  injection  vials,  in  the  name  Kanmac-500  ,  buy  about  5  bottles  if  you  use  10  ltr  water  in  the  bucket,  if  20  ltr  buy  10  nos.  Water  volume  you  take  based  on  the  fact  that  he  should  be  submerged.
 
 Regards
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Hi  krash,
 
 One  doubt.  What  is  the  quantity  of  kanamycin  i  should  buy  if  its  available  as  tablets  and  if  available  as  vials.
 
 Thanks  a  lot  for  all  your  help
 
 Shashank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 It  willl  be  available  as  injection  vials.  Kanamycin  sulphate  is  difficult  to  come  by,  mostly  vets  will  be  able  to  get  it.
 
 Kanmac  is  an  acid  sulphate  version  &  is  easily  available  at  medical  stores  that  keep  vet  meds.  It  is  in  powder  form  in  a  vial.  I  am  not  aware  of  tablets  of  this.  
 
 Qty  is  if  you  going  to  use  10  ltrs  of  water  in  the  dip  treatment,  then  buy  5  nos,  if  20  ltrs  buy  10  nos.  
 
 In  10  ltrs  you  will  use  only  half  bottle  so  for  10  days,  you  need  only  5  nos,  but  for  20  ltrs  water  you  will  need  to  use  the  entire  powder  in  the  vial,  so  buy  10  nos.
 
 The  dip  treatment  is  done  after  daily  WC,  before  repeating  the  capsule  meds  in  the  water.  MB  you  can  put  in  the  tank  too,  will  do  no  harm.
 
 Regards
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shashank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Krash,
 
 Just  got  all  the  meds  you  asked  me  to  buy.  Bought  sporidex  and  minocycline  tablets.  Sporidex  500  is  expensive  so  bought  about  5  tablets  for  today  and  will  buy  the  remaining  tomorrow.
 
 Regarding  the  bath,  is  it  to  be  given  today  or  after  24  hours  when  i  do  the  40  to  50%  WC  tomorrow  ?
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shashank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Just  put  in  all  the  medicines  as  you  mentioned.  Added  an  additional  airpump,  and  turned  the  canister  off.  The  temperature  is  set  to  28  C.  Will  do  a  water  change  with  bath  tomorrow.
 
 
 Thanks  a  lot  for  all  the  help  Krash.
 
 Shashank
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krash
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Dip  treatment  after  24  hrs,   so  everyday  you  have  to  WC,  after  you  do  WC,  just  take  him  out  into  the  bucket  or  tub  with  minocycline  &  keep  him  for  2  hours  
 I  would  even  say  to  to  go  as  far  as  3  hrs  to  4hrs,  if  time  permits  you.
 If  you  take  10  ltrs  use  one  tab,  if  above  15  ltrs  of  water  is  need  use  2  tabs.  Then  drop  him  back  in  the  tank,  give  him  an  hour  to  settle  down.  Then  add  the  sporidex  mixed  water  from  the  mug.
 Point  to  remember  pls  use  soft  water,  if  you  have  drinking  water  can  or  water  from  a  filter.  Tap  water  is  hard  &  minocycline  will  react  with  calcium  in  it  &  its  efficacy  will  go  &  it  can  act  as  an  immunosupressant,  that  is  will  drop  his  ability  to  fight  of  infections.  Antibiotics  will  help  in  control  &  eradication  of   most  bacteria  but  his  immunity  will  have  to  do  the  rest.
 
 Yeah  sporidex  is  expensive  -  more  than  15  a  tab.  
 
 Good,  so  tomorrow  change  the  water,  then  do  the  dip  treatment  &  put  him  back  ,  wait  1  hr,  then  add  sporidex  again.  Also  remember  to  add  the  Epsom  salt.
 
 MB  use  double  dosage  in  bucket  for  dip,  in  tank  you  can  add  it  too,  it  will  do  good  than  harm.
 
 
 
 Regards
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shashank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He Reply with quote

 Ok  will  shift  over  to  paraxin  tomorrow.  I  hope  its  fine  ?  or  do  you  recommend  sticking  to  sporidex  only  ?  I  notice  he's  a  little  more  active  than  before  now,  has  more  fin  movements  and  is  constantly  moving  around  in  the  tank.
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