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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Feeding Moorish Idol!
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Feeding Moorish Idol!
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:39 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Sorry  once  again  Adi,  I  ignored  your  wish  list.  The  combo  of  wimples  and  anemones  would  simply  not  work!!!!  I  think  its  already  been  mentioned  about  it  in  some  other  topic.
 
 Usually  Koran  angel  wont  attack  the  anemones  -  stichodactyla  and  heteractis  sp,  if  they  are  from  our  reef,  but  I  cannot  be  optimistic.  Better  drop  out  the  idea  of  anemones  for  this  tank.
 
 Coming  to  the  addition  of  a  group  of  wimples,  if  your  tank  is  not  yet  USED  to  the  full  stocking  level,  here  is  a  way..  Since  the  older  wimples  surely  will  try  to  unsettle  the  newly  introduced  ones,  better  avoid  that  idea  of  introducing  them  one  by  one.  But  for  that,  you  may  know,  you  cannot  do  the  addition  in  one  single  shot!!  So  what  i  suggest  is  that  after  the  Koran  is  introduced  and  it  has  started  eating  well  to  its  full  capacity,  give  a  break  of  about  2  weeks.  Then  introduce  2  semi-adult  lionfish  like  the  one  which  can  gulp  an  adult  black-molly.  Start  feeding  them  live  adult  black-molly  just  one  per  day.  By  doing  this,  only  one  lion  will  get  to  eat  a  fish  per  day.  Observe  them,  which  one  has  gulped  and  who  is  left  without  food.  You  need  to  feed  them  in  turns  of  alternate  days  for  the  next  2  weeks.  This  wont  load  your  tank  and  this  would  be  as  good  as  having  introduced  only  one  lion,  which  is  being  fed  daily.  Then  begin  feeding  both  of  them  daily  for  a  couple  of  weeks  more.  Now,  since  what  the  lionfish  eats  is  HEAVY,  so  will  be  its  OUTPUT.  The  advantage  here  is  that  your  tank  has  been  used  to  a  Good  amount  of  load.  Now,  the  job  being  done,  take  the  lion  out,  and  you  CAN  introduce  about  5  to  6  wimples,  all  at  the  same  time.
 
 Hope  you  are  not  too  confused!!!
 
 Shankar
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simba
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Shankar,
 
 excellent  information  and  tips  Sir.  I  have  a  question:
 
 My  tank  is  holding  about  480  litres  of  water  and  hasa  good  biloload  in  it  with  a  large  (  8  inches)  long  wrasse,  a  large  wimple,  6  anemones,  4  stars  (various),    a  sailfin  tang,  3  clowns,  (percula),  3  damsels  (  blue  devils)  and  a  hermit  crab.It  also  hasa  coupleof  very  elusive  crabs  as  the  tank  has  about  50  kilos  of    live  rock  which  is  now  almost  devoid  of  polyps  etc.  
 
 The  Nitrate  levels  tend  to  keep  rising  at  alarming  rates  and  each  test  result  shows  over  180  ppm  of  Nitrate  in  the  water.  Proving  that  my  bio  load  is  being  taken  care  of  well  as  all  my  fish  eat  well  and  voraciously.  Is  this  a  safe  situation  with  10  %  weekly  water  changes?  Or  should  I  consider  major  steps  to  reduce  the  Nitrate  count?
 
 Regards,
 Simba
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Simba,  I  would  double  check  your  test  results...180  ppm  is  waaaaaaaaaay  too  high.  <20  ppm  is  good  and  40  ppm  is  cause  for  concern.  With  that  level  of  nitrates  (if  it  is  correct),  even  10%  daily  changes  might  not  be  enough.
 
 Shankar,  I  have  to  disagree  with  your  idea  of  using  lionfish  for  increasing  the  bioload.  Given  a  properly  cycled  tank,  adding  6  semi-adult  wimple  fish  will  not  significantly  affect  the  bioload.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Simba  get  another  Nitrate  test  kit.
 
 This  one  has  gone  all  wonky  I  am  sure.
 
 I  have  had  this  happen  to  me  before.  Your  nitrates  are  not  180  ppm.  Marine  fish  cannot  tolerate  this  high  a  nitrate  content.
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murthy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Smile  No  Confusion,Shankar...its  crystal  clear!
 
                                                 
retro_gk  wrote:                

 .  Given  a  properly  cycled  tank,  adding  6  semi-adult  wimple  fish  will  not  significantly  affect  the  bioload.                

 question  is  what  is  a  "properly"  cycled  tank?a  tank  is  considered  cycled  upto  the  bioload  it  has....any  more  additions  are  done  slowly  to  let  the  cycling  catch  up(that  is  what  I  understand).That  is  why  I  had  concerns  regarding  introduction  of  6  medium  wimples.I  dont  mind  cycling  the  tank  for  even  two  months(and  my  quarantine  tank  has  easily  completed  that  period,held  fish,and  is  quite  ready.)
 
     I  think  what  shankar  is  suggesting  is  to  use  two  lions  to  do  the  cycling,and  replace  them  with  the  same  amount  of  bioload  in  wimples.Lionfish  being  hardy,should  not  suffer  any  losses.What  I  propose  to  do,apart  from  what  shankar  suggests,is  to  periodically  keep  adding  bacterial  spores.
   
     I  am  still  open  to  your  suggestions,Rahul/Shankar.Addition  of  any  other  fish  will  be  really  difficult  to  remove  from  my  tank  later(already  I  wonder  how  to  remove  damsels!!!)
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 A  properly  cycled  tank  is  one  which  has  been  up  and  running  for  a  significant  period  of  time  (10  weeks  +)  and  has  consistent  water  parameters  (0  ammonia  and  nitrites,  <<20  ppm  nitrates).  If  your  tank  meets  these  criteria,  I  do  not  think  adding  6  wimplefish  and  feeding  them  judiciously  will  cause  any  serious  problems.
 
 I  understood  Shanker's  suggestion  and  I  do  not  see  how  lionfish  are  any  more  hardier  than  wimples.  Plus,  they  are  usually  more  expensive  and  you  will  be  faced  with  the  problem  of  rehoming  them.
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:39 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Smile  Point  noted,Rahul.If  not  lionfish,How  about  mollies?or  Monos...I  could  easily  catch  and  remove  those  slow  moving  balloon  mollies.Somehow  I'm  just  very  uneasy  at  doing  all  six  wimples  in  a  shot...
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:20 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I  am  simply  not  very  keen  on  switching  around  the  livestock  in  a  marine  tank.  If  it  were  up  to  me,  given  a  tank  of  the  size  you  have  (5x2x2),  I'd  cycle  it  without  any  fish  and  then  introduce  the  wimples  as  the  first  inhabitants.  6  medium  sized  fish  in  a  fully  cycled  tank  that  size  should  not  cause  a  significant  dip  in  water  quality.
 
 If  you  feel  queasy  about  doing  it  that  way,  then  don't  do  it.  Get  other  peoples'  input  as  well  and  decide  what  works  best  for  you.  It  is  far  better  to  know  all  your  options  than  to  rush  into  anything.  Smile
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  and  a  Good  Day!!
 
 Rahul,  a  simple  example  for  you...Suppose  you  cycle  a  S/W  tank  using  a  damsel  and  you  wait  for  the  system  to  cycle  naturally,  i.e  without  any  supplimenary  baceria,  it  may  take  even  a  100  days  for  the  completion  of  the  cycling.  But  then  can  you  add  all  the  stock  at  the  same  time??  Unless  you  add  REALLY  LIVE  BACTERIA,  the  bacterial  colony  that  must  have  cultured  over  the  cycle  period,  will  just  be  enough  to  take  the  load  of  cycling  BAKRAAS;  may  be  a  couple  of  fish  more.  Surely  5+  carnivoures,  that  we  are  talking  about,  in  a  single  shot,  is  inviting  trouble.  Same  thing  in  comparison,  you  can  add  6  to  7  acanthurus  nigrofuscus  in  a  go,  since  they  are  algae  eaters  and  it  will  cause  a  very  nominal  load  on  the  system.  
 
 Lions  are  surely  hardy,  with  pterois  antenatta  and  p.  russelli  as    exceptions.  p.  volitans,  p.  lunulata  and  p.  radiata  are  among  the  hardiest.
 
 And  Adi,  mollies  wont  make  much  of  a  difference,  since  they  can  just  initiate  the  cycle.  And  lion  will  be  easier  to  catch.  If  you  cannot  give  them  a  new  home,  after  their  job  being  done,  be  a  proud  person  to  leave  them  back  to  the  sea!  Very Happy  Gulf  of  Kutch  will  see  2  estatic  prisoners!!  :lol:  
 
 Shankar
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Simba,  get  a  new  kit  for  sure.  For  nitrates  touching  50ppm,  your  stichodactyla  (  Carpet  anemone  )  will  try  to  EXPOSE  inside  out!  If  at  all,  you  experience  any  problems  will  ammonia  etc,  apart  from  doing  the  water  change,  try  to  find  out  the  cause  like,  uncleaned  mech-filter,  a  dead  fish,  or  may  be  even  an  unsiphoned  substrate.
 
 Even  if  your  new  kit  shows  the  same  level  of  NO3,  then  surely  your  tank  has  GOD  in  the  avataar  of  a  fish,  in  a  hell  of  a  world  called  OLD-TANK-SYNDROME!!  Very Happy  
 
 Keep  us  updated.
 
 Shankar
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
If  you  cannot  give  them  a  new  home,  after  their  job  being  done,  be  a  proud  person  to  leave  them  back  to  the  sea!  icon_biggrin.gif  Gulf  of  Kutch  will  see  2  estatic  prisoners!!  icon_lol.gif                  

 
 THE  first  rule  of  responsible  fishkeeping  is  to  NOT  release  aquarium  fish  back  in  the  wild!!!!!
 
 Back  to  the  cycling  with  fish  issue,  while  I  do  not  dispute  the  hardiness  of  lionfish,  I  have  no  evidence  of  wimplefish  being  any  less  hardier.
 
 Again,  if  you  cycle  with  lionfish,  and  then  replace  them  with  fish  producing  less  bioload,  you  will  lose  much  of  the  bactrial  biomass  as  there  will  not  be  enough  food  for  them....read  Madan's  excellent  post  in  a  related  thread  for  more  details.
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murthy
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 ....but  surely  there  cannot  be  any  harm  in  loss  of  bacterial  biomass,  cannot  be  bad,it  will  just  reduce  enough  to  support  the  wimples.Which  thread  did  you  mean  Rahul?want  to  check  it  out.
 
     Forgot  a  third  option  here...what  If  the  tank  is  cycled  on  ammomia,and  tested  regularly?Again,waterlife  has  a  product  "biomature",labelled  as  "bacterial  food",which  in  my  guess  is  a  mix  of  ammonia  and  stuff.how  about  that?
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murthy
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Shankar  wrote:                
Hi  and  a  Good  Day!!
 
 If  you  cannot  give  them  a  new  home,  after  their  job  being  done,  be  a  proud  person  to  leave  them  back  to  the  sea!  Very Happy  Gulf  of  Kutch  will  see  2  estatic  prisoners!!  :lol:  
 
 Shankar                

 
 Giving  the  lions  a  new  home  is  not  a  big  issue,I'm  sure  the  lfs  will  be  happy  to  have  it  in  their  tank.  Smile
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Madan
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Joined: Jun 29, 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 8:04 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Murthy  one  time  I  foolishly  mixed  1gm  of  NH4Cl  to  100  ml  of  water  and  added  about  5  ml  of  this  solution  to  get  a  tank  cycled.
 
 I  threw  away  the  bottle  of  NH4Cl  after  that  attempt.
 
 That  particular  planted  tank  was  forever  infested  with  algae,  the  fish  never  did  well  in  there.  I  don't  know  what  else  I  did  wrong  there,  but  I  have  never  done  this  before  and  since  then,  and  I  did  all  other  things  before  and  after  this  incident  that  I  normally  do  with  all  my  planted  tanks,  I  have  never  had  problems.
 
 So,  ammonia  cycling  with  ammonia  added  to  the  tank  is  your  worry.  I  stopped  thinking  about  this  and  quit  worrying.
 
 Send  an  e-mail  to  the  manufacturer  of  the  product  you  are  guessing  about  and  find  out  how  it  works.  We  will  be  only  shooting  in  the  dark  with  maybe  this  and  maybe  that.
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murthy
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hmmm...thanks  Madan.Will  send  that  e-mail.Maybe  you  tried  a  super  strong  dose?the  net  has  lots  of  proponents  of  ammonia  cycling,including  some  from  very  well  known  discus  forum.I  dont  mention  which,becos  I  dont  remember,was  quite  some  time  when  i  read  it.At  the  time,ammonia  cycling  was  of  no  relevance  to  my  hobby.
               And  if  algae  is  going  to  be  a  result  in  a  marine  tank,it  cant  too  bad  no?(or  can  it??!!)
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