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Restricted sale on large fish?

 
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johnny
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 hi  guys,  something  i  saw  recently  when  i  was  visiting  a  lfs.  A  kid  wanted  to  purchase  a  silver  arowana  saying  his  last  arowana  died.  This  kid  was  probably  studying  in  about  8th  std.  The  shop  keeper  sent  him  back  saying  that  in  this  season  arowana  will  die  easily  so  not  worth  spending.
 
 But  this  got  me  thinking,  how  large  a  tank  could  a  kid  studying  in  8th  std  have.  Do  they  even  remotely  realize  how  big  those  fish  can  grow?  I  know  several  other  lfs  in  my  area  which  would  have  gladly  made  that  second  sale.  And  for  these  kids,  these  fish  are  just  fancy  little  things,  an  interesting  fad  that  peers  talk  about,  in  the  same  range  as  N-series  or  ipods.  "And  they  eat  goldfish  for  food".
 
 Should  there  not  be  some  regulation  of  sorts  on  the  sale  of  such  large  fish  as  these?  Any  decent  regulation  that  will  keep  these  fish  off  the  hands  of  careless  kids.  And  what  we  can  do  from  our  end  about  it.  Please  share  your  views.  I  had  been  thinking  about  this  ever  since  I  saw  this,  n  a  recent  article  in  PFK  site  about  "inappropriate  fish  for  inappropriate  keepers"  prompted  me  to  bring  this  to  discussion.
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angad
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

                                                   
johnny  wrote  (View  Post):                
hi  guys,  something  i  saw  recently  when  i  was  visiting  a  lfs.  A  kid  wanted  to  purchase  a  silver  arowana  saying  his  last  arowana  died.  This  kid  was  probably  studying  in  about  8th  std.  The  shop  keeper  sent  him  back  saying  that  in  this  season  arowana  will  die  easily  so  not  worth  spending.
 
 But  this  got  me  thinking,  how  large  a  tank  could  a  kid  studying  in  8th  std  have.  Do  they  even  remotely  realize  how  big  those  fish  can  grow?  I  know  several  other  lfs  in  my  area  which  would  have  gladly  made  that  second  sale.  And  for  these  kids,  these  fish  are  just  fancy  little  things,  an  interesting  fad  that  peers  talk  about,  in  the  same  range  as  N-series  or  ipods.  "And  they  eat  goldfish  for  food".                

 Well  some  one  i  know  wanted  me  to  get  a  4'x3'x3'  tank  just  so  their  little  guy,  who  i  think  is  in  3rd  or  4th  std  happens  to  like  little  blue  fish,  a.k.a  Fronts!!  Budget  really  wasn't  a  problem  for  them.  I'm  sure  many  LFS  survive  only  because  of  this.  There  was  also  this  time  in  Shivajinagar  when  a  couple  walked  in  and  the  lady  really  liked  a  pair  of  Rays,  so  the  guy  asked  the  LFS  guy  about  them,  he  said  15K,  and  the  guy  said,  don't  worry  about  the  money,  put  them  in  a  bowl  for  me.  Thankfully  the  LFS  guy  flatly  refused  to  sell  them!  Smile  I'm  sure  if  you  just  wait  in  a  LFS  for  sometime,  you'll  come  across  a  lot  of  stuff  like  this!  :D
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Should  there  not  be  some  regulation  of  sorts  on  the  sale  of  such  large  fish  as  these?                

 The  LFS  guy  surely  cant  go  to  each  buyers  house  and  check  what  size  tank  the  fish  he  sold  them  is  being  kept  in.
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johnny
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
The  LFS  guy  surely  cant  go  to  each  buyers  house  and  check  what  size  tank  the  fish  he  sold  them  is  being  kept  in.                

 
 Totally  agree.  But  I  sure  wish  PFA  and  related  organizations  would  focus  its  attention  on  areas  like  this,  and  come  up  with  <b>reasonable</b>  restrictions  like  say,  you  have  to  be  a  minimum  age  to  buy  monster  fish/  fish  that  require  special  care  and  dedication.  That  in  itself  should  be  a  reasonable  deterent.  These  kids  are  more  impressed  by  the  fact  that  arowana  eats  feeder  fish,  rather  than  by  the  arowana  itself.   Thumb Down  
 
 Reminds  me  of  the  time  when  fighter  used  to  be  the  fad.  And  a  good  proof  that  kids  dont  really  notice  the  realities,  when  I  started  the  conversation  on  bettas,  my  colleague  described  w  great  gusto  how  his  pet  figher  used  to  beat  up  guppies  with  its  tail  and  eat  them   ROFL  
 But  atleast  fighters  didnt  grow  big  and  a  regular  tank  was  a  good  setup.
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elaine
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 I  agree   that  people  should   keep  pets,  whether  fish,dog,  cat  or  bird,  only  if  they  can  take  care  of  them  properly  but  to  say  that  this  is  only  age  related  is  wrong.  There  are  so  many  examples  of  adults  with  more  money  than  brains  buying  pets  just  to  show  off,  for  them  the  bigger,  more  expensive  or  exotic  the  pet  is  the  better  for  their  only  intent  is  to  show  off.  For  them  the  pet  itself  doesn't  matter  and  it  is  these  sort  of  people  who  discard  their  pets  when  they  tire  of  them  or  something  newer  or  better(  in  their  opinion)  comes  along.  A  kid  in  class  8  who  is  13  or  14  if  dedicated  enough  can  take  care  of  a  pet  better  than  these  adults
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angad
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

                                                   
elaine  wrote  (View  Post):                
I  agree   that  people  should   keep  pets,  whether  fish,dog,  cat  or  bird,  only  if  they  can  take  care  of  them  properly  but  to  say  that  this  is  only  age  related  is  wrong.  There  are  so  many  examples  of  adults  with  more  money  than  brains  buying  pets  just  to  show  off,  for  them  the  bigger,  more  expensive  or  exotic  the  pet  is  the  better  for  their  only  intent  is  to  show  off.  For  them  the  pet  itself  doesn't  matter  and  it  is  these  sort  of  people  who  discard  their  pets  when  they  tire  of  them  or  something  newer  or  better(  in  their  opinion)  comes  along.  A  kid  in  class  8  who  is  13  or  14  if  dedicated  enough  can  take  care  of  a  pet  better  than  these  adults                

 Very  well  said!!  Smile
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random2
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 One  more  thing  I  have  seen  is  gifting  of  bowls  and  gold  fishes.  I  visit  couple  of  LFS  once  in  couple  of  weeks  and  almost  every  time  I  go,  at  least  one  person  will  come  asking  for  a  bowl  and  2  big  gold  fishes.  And  mainly  to  be  gifted  to  someone.  The  LFS  guy  suggests  that  bowls  are  not  a  good  idea  and  that  too  golds  in  them.  Some  people  decide  not  to  buy  and  some  insist  on  buying.  I  saw  the  same  thing  happen  today,  the  person  still  wanted  to  buy  even  after  the  LFS  guy  told  him  that  the  fish  will  die  within  few  days.
 
 Have  seen  LFS  doing  regular  selling  without  any  concern  and  also  guys  who  try  to  educate  their  clients.  One  of  the  guy  whom  I  regularly  visit  says  that  he  tries  to  educate  as  much  as  he  can  but  if  the  clients  insist,  he  sells  whatever  they  ask  for.
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mithunda
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 guys,
 
 i  am  going  to  say  something  very  disturbing  to  u  all  as  an  aquaria  hobbyist.  But  its  a  hard  truth.  A  life  is  a  life.  be  it  a  fish  or  a  bird  or  a  "pet".  And  "Caring  for  them"  is  another  term  highly  "marketed"  by  M.  Gandhi.  I  ask  all  of  u  just  one  thing.  Are  not  those  fishes  real  fish  who  get  killed  everyday  just  for  our  appetite?  We  never  ever  think  about  them  while  eating  delicious  sushi  or  whole  bekti  or  tuna  salad.  We  never  think  its  cruel.  Why?  just  because  they  dont  have  fancy  colour  in  them?  just  becoz  they  dont  have  beautiful  tail  or  becoz  they  dont  come  under  the  "list"  of  aquarium  fishes  or  because  they  are  delicious?  we  will  never  speak  even  a  line  for  them  but  we  will  talk  about  judicial  laws  for  these  aquarium  fishes,  we  will  fire  up  a  forum  if  a  LFS  guy  gives  a  goldfish  in  a  bowl.  I  am  a  hobbyist  myself  for  last  15+  years.  and  i  believe  in  equality.  I  dont  think  my  discus  are  anyway  special  than  those  i  get  on  my  platter.  I  just  love  to  raise  the  fishes  i  keep.  Thats  all.  I  bet  you  all  know  that  people  eat  those  fishes  somewhere  in  the  world  which  we  keep  in  our  aquarium.  Do  u  know  how  valuable  the  fish  tilapia  is  in  US?  we  eat  them  and  they  keep  them  in  aquarium..  If  they  hear  that  they  would  call  us  cruel.  Would  that  matter  to  us?  NOT  AT  ALL.  Forget  about  fishes..  think  about  chicken,  mutton  and  all  those  non-veg  recipes.  does  not  that  bring  water  to  our  mouth?  INDEED.  talk  about  cruel.  Sorry  guys  but  i  cannot  support  you  about  these  cruelty  thoughts.
 
 Just  my  opinion.  I  cant  be  partial  like  this.
 
 But  yes  if  the  fish  is  some  extinct  or  rare  variety  which  goldfishes  obviously  are  not  i  would  always  support  to  handle  them  with  utmost  care.  because  we  are  solely  responsible  to  preserve  them  not  to  destroy  them.  As  chickens  these  aquarium  fishes  are  farm  made  just  to  please  our  appetite  or  hobby  needs.  so  its  totally  upto  u.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 ^  Mithun,
 
 I  dont  eat  them,  so  according  to  me  your  cruel  Wink  just  kidding
 
 No,  its  not  that.  Tell  me,  knowing  fully  well  that  the  fish  is  going  to  die  is  it  a  good  idea  to  keep  it  in  a  bowl?  (or  in  a  small  tank  maybe  according  to  OP)  Its  not  that  birth  and  death  are  part  of  life.  The  point  is  why  should  one  kill  them  this  way.  Im  sure  it  wont  go  well  with  the  keeper  him/her  self  when  a  pet  dies.  I  wouldnt  mind  even  if  a  guy  buys  2kgs  of  gold  fish  for  eating  it.  At  least  a  purpose  is  served.
 
 EDIT:  I  think  this  thread  is  going  the  same  way  as  one  similar  long  thread  which  was  locked.
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mithunda
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 you  are  missing  the  point  deepak.
 
 The  person  who  buys  a  fish  in  a  bowl  has  a  purpose  just  to  see  them  swimming  and  to  enjoy  its  beauty  as  long  as  it  stays.  not  to  care  for  them.  That  is  excellently  served  for  them  for  a  while..  its  upto  them  whether  they  want  that  pleasure  to  last  long.
 
 And  unlike  most  of  us  that  purpose  is  not  so  dearly  to  them  that  they  will  spend  their  hard  earned  cash  on  them.
 
 and  your  point  about  why  should  one  kill  it  that  way..  i  would  say  picture  this...  you  take  a  net,  pull  the  goldfish  out  of  water  using  the  net  and  throw  it  on  the  floor  and  look  away.  It  will  die  in  a  few  seconds  panting  in  agony  of  not  being  able  to  breathe.  is  it  less  cruel  than  seeing  a  goldfish  dieing  becoz  of  highly  polluted  water?  Its  way  more  cruel  than  that.  And  its  exactly  what  happens  to  all  edible  fishes..  now  compare  the  cruelty..
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elaine
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 The  animal  should  at  least  be  kept  in  comfort  while  it  is  alive
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mithunda
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 why?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 Well  Mithunda,  I  agree  with  what  you  say  regarding  not  treating  aquarium  fish  and  edible  fish  differently.  But  the  thing  is,  if  one  should  eat  the  fish,  they  should  kill  it  quickly  and  without  mess.  If  they  want  to  keep  the  fish  alive,  they  should  make  sure  it  is  healthy  and  lives  well.  Whatever  the  choice,  the  fish  should  not  have  prolonged  suffering  cos  of  it.  
 
 
                                                 
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The  person  who  buys  a  fish  in  a  bowl  has  a  purpose  just  to  see  them  swimming  and  to  enjoy  its  beauty  as  long  as  it  stays.  not  to  care  for  them.                  

 I  think  it  would  be  their  moral/  ethical  responsibility  to  provide  for  the  fish,  simply  because  they  chose  to  keep  it  alive.  All  choices  will  have  associated  responsibilities  which  should  be  acknowleged.   Smile  
 
 
 @Elaine,
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
A  kid  in  class  8  who  is  13  or  14  if  dedicated  enough  can  take  care  of  a  pet  better  than  these  adults                

 
 Simply  have  to  agree  with  that  statement,  esp  since  I  myself  have  been  having  pets  (dogs,  fish,  birds)  for  a  long  time  now.   Smile
 Kids  take  great  care  of  pets.  But  in  my  opinion,  the  level  of  responsibility  trusted  to  them  should  be  limited  to  things  they  can  handle.  Monster  fishes,  i  still  dont  think  kids  can  or  should  handle  them.
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angad
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

                                                   
mithunda  wrote  (View  Post):                
why?                

   Surprised   Surprised   Well  quite  a  shocking  question!!
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ramsarma1972
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Joined: Dec 06, 2008
Posts: 234
Location: Trivandrum

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Restricted sale on large fish? Reply with quote

 The  matter  of  whether  to  kill  fish  to  eat  them  is  to  be  left  to  the  individuals  themselves  and  those  who  love  animals  (  including  fishes)  could  defenitely  desist  from  eating  them.  However  the  matter  in  question  is  that  of  keeping  fishes  as  pets  and  so  if  the  focus  could  be  brought  back  on  the  matter,  it  would  be  best  that  people  (including  Children)  are  educated  about  the  fishes  they  buy  so  that  they  can  keep  them  well.  I  am  sure  LFS  could  insist  that  when  such  large  fishes  are  purchased  (  obviously  at  a  PRICE!!!)  the  parents  accompany  the  children  and  they  are  informed  about  the  care  and  effort  that  is  involved  in  keeping  the  pets.  
 
 It  maybe  a  fact  that  many  LFS  sell  Goldfishes  and  Carp  in  large  numbers  to  their  customers  who  unknowingly  kill  their  pets,  but  when  in  comes  to  large  fishes,  the  LFS  can  definitely  caution  the  buyers.  Ofcourse  its  business  and  so  if  the  buyer  insists  that  he  wants  to  let  the  fishes  die  over  a  week,  the  LFS  will  have  no  option.
 
 The  best  would  be  to  educate  the  hobbist  and  defenitely  put  an  end  to  the  concept  of  giving  a  bowlof  fishes  as  a  gift  to  someone  who  is  not  a  hobbist  at  all.
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