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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - ADA Substrate : Worth the expense?
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ADA Substrate : Worth the expense?
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Prem kk
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 PK  -  I  have  ADA  Amazonia  and  ADA  Africana.  The  growth  in  Amazonia  is  better  than  Africana.  It's  sure  shot  sucess  if  you  have  ADA  in  your  tank.
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:59 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 PK...  ADA  has  the  Best  Substrate  line  in  the  market  as  of  today.  Noone  can  beat  ADA  aquasoil.  No  it's  the  time  to  ask  hy  I  will  use  Aquasoil.  Right!!  Here  they  are.....
 
 1.  Fertile  substrate
 2.  Very  high  CEC
 3.  Will  alter(reduce)  your  pH  and  kH  
 
 Now,  if  you  have  a  heavy  root  feeder  plant,  ADA  is  best  as  it  will  give  you  a  fertile  base.  If  you  have  a  stem  which  needs  a  lower  pH  and  kH  then  again  Aquasoil  is  THE  best.  That  means  ADA  Aquasoil  is  providing  a  fertile  substrate  as  well  as  a  perfect  water  chemistry  which  is  perfect  to  grow  aquatic  plants.  So  I  think,  it's  a  good  idea  to  invest  on  ADA  aquasoil.  And  the  most  picky  person  in  our  hobby  (Tom  Barr)  is  also  a  great  supporter  of  ADA  aquasoil,  so  if  you  have  the  budget  then  go  for  aquasoil.  But  do  not  mix  ADA  ith  Laterite,  that  will  be  a  snake  oil.  
 
 All  the  best.   Thumb Up
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:00 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 thanks  camy  and  tirtha..  not  going  to  mix  ada  and  laterite  as  many  have  mentioned  that  it  is  the  best  path  to  disaster
 
 Since  i  am  planning  to  get  couple  of  planted  tanks  in  place  thought  of  a  testing  phase  of  getting  a  comparison  f  ADA  and  laterite  in  different  tanks  but  using  a  common  sump  for  filtration.
 
 As  seetharaman  said,  the  issue  might  be  if  there  is  a  common  sump  will  the  effects  of  the  ADA  soil  be  reduced  as  the  water  volume  is  increased  by  another  tank  that  has  only  laterite.  so  thats  where  i  am  stuck  as  of  now!!!...
 
 designed  the  tanks  interlinks  to  the  sump  along  with  the  filtration  also..  will  post  it  by  the  end  of  the  day  today
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natureaquariumlover
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 IMO  having  a  common  sump  will  have  some  effect.  Let  me  explain.
 
 Others  including  me  earlier  has  suggested  that  one  of  the  best  quality  of  ADA  substrate  is  it's  high  CEC  and  this  has  been  confirmed  thru  test  results  provided  by  Tom  and  when  I  asked  him  specifically.  But  then  can  this  CEC  be  retained  lifelong?
 
 Once  soil  provoides  an  ion  lets  say  Mg+  to  a  plant,  that  empty  place  ideally  should  be  filled  by  another  Mg+  ion  from  say  the  water  column.   But  then  when  water  from  two  tanks  with  disimlar  water  water  parameters  gets  mixed  then  chances  are  there  that  the  lost  ion  in  ADA  substrate  may  not  get  replaced  properly  or  in  some  other  circumstance  get  replace  by  say  Na+  ion  which  is  not  too  good  from  substrate  fertility  point  of  view.  I  am  very  poor  in  chemistry  but  with  this  example  I  have  tried  to  explain  my  view  that  mixing  water  from  2  tanks  may  not  be  a  good  idea  in  sustaining  the  life  of  ADA  substrate.
 
 Though  ADA  never  claims  specifically,  IMO  the  system  works  best  when  all  the  suggested  components  are  used  in  tandem.  So  I  guess  when  you  use  an  ADA  liquid  fert  it  has  the  specific  ions  that  can  be  bound  by  the  substarte  to  retain  it's  fertility,  CEC  etc  etc.  One  can  note  here  that  as  per  ADA  literature  even  the  water  used  in  ADA  liquid  ferts  are  is  not  normal  water  but  de-salinated  water  from  deep  sea.  Tom  Barr  though  disagrees  with  this  view  and  feels  EI  will  work  as  well  with  ADA  AS  and  spending  money  on  ADA  liquid  ferts  are  fruitless.  Without  getting  into  guess  work  I  have  decided  that  in  some  time  (and  when  I  have  some  money  Smile  )  I  will  have  a  calssic  ADA  setup  and  the  other  one  with  ADA  +  EI  dozing  to  see  for  myself.
 
 One  last  word  of  caution  when  you  mix  ADA  products  with  others  please  be  careful.  I  personally  had  to  face  some  problem  when  I  attempted  that  in  the  past  but  then  may  be  it  was  more  due  to  my  ignorance  then  anything  else  Thumb Up
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sean
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 can  anyone  tel  me  the  meaning  of  ADA  is  it  a  brand  name  and  y  is  it  so  popular??
 wats  the  pricing??
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mudjawd
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:34 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 ADA  :   aqua  design  Amano.
 
 company  started  by  revolutionary  aquarist  "Takashi  Amano".
 products  are  on  a  higher  side  of  price  but  in  the  long  run  value  for  money.  though  some  are  really  expensive.  i  myself  have  tried  other  soils  but  i  am  also  going  for  ADA  amazonia  soil  as  someone  rightfully  coomented  in  this  thread  itself  that  it  is  predictable.
 
 i  have  had  trouble  growing  hairgrass  and  looks  like  ADA  is  the  solution  for  it.
 
 though  i'll  go  for  ADA  +  river  sand  mix  with  the  middle  area  for  riversand  and  the  side  areas  with  river  sand  topped  by  2  inches  of  ADA  soil.
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sean
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 thanks  but  where  can  iget  it??
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:36 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

                                                   
sean  wrote  (View  Post):                
thanks  but  where  can  iget  it??                

 
 Adip  is  the  official  ADA  counterpart  here  in  India.  You  will  get  all  the  ADA  products  from  him.  See  ADA  Sponsored  IAH  forum  for  details.
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trevor
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:12 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

                                                   
mudjawd  wrote  (View  Post):                

 
 i  have  had  trouble  growing  hairgrass  and  looks  like  ADA  is  the  solution  for  it.
 
 though  i'll  go  for  ADA  +  river  sand  mix  with  the  middle  area  for  riversand  and  the  side  areas  with  river  sand  topped  by  2  inches  of  ADA  soil.                

 
 Hair  grass  grows  well  on  ADA  soil.
 
 Either  ADA  products  or  laterite  and  river  gravel.  Do  not  mix.
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kulsdood
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:45 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 Hello  Peri,   one  question,  have  you  tried  ADA  before?  If  you  have,  then  I  guess  you  wouldnt  probably  want  to  go  with  laterite  +  sand  mix.  --  Unless  you  want  to  attain  that  magic  formula  which  you  can  add  yourself  manually  to  the  laterite  +sand  and  bring  it  to  par  with  ADA  (or  even  make  it  better  than  ADA)...  I'm  sure  if  you  experiment  that  way  you  will  be  able  to  sort  out  the  trick  and  that  magic  formula  will  be  very  helpful  for  many  hobbyists...  And  for  this  added  reason  dont  sump  them  all  together...  Please  keep  us  posted  on  the  progress  of  your  new  tanks...  Good  luck
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 Nice  experiment  PK.
 Just  my  2  cents.   Try  2  tanks  with  the  same  plant  species  n  population  and  then  may  be  we  can  know  how  much  riversand/laterite  lags  behind  ADA.   Well  no  to  tanks  can  be  identical  but  still  we  can  get  it  as  close  as  possible.   I  actually  tried  something  with  rosettes.   Both  with  laterite/seived  construction  gravel  one  being  a  hi-tech  and  the  other  being  a  low-tech.   Both  had  mostly  rosettes,  as  i  thought  rosettes  have  better  chance  in  the  low  teck.   Guess  what?  the  A.  boivinianus  in  the  low  tech  bloomed  and  nothing  in  the  hi-tech  showed  any  buds.
 The  point  i'm  trying  to  bring  out  is,  only  if  we  are  blind  of  the  results  we  can  learn  more.
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natureaquariumlover
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:06 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

                                                   
madhu_ulysses  wrote  (View  Post):                
 A.  boivinianus  in  the  low  tech  bloomed  and  nothing  in  the  hi-tech  showed  any  buds.
 The  point  i'm  trying  to  bring  out  is,  only  if  we  are  blind  of  the  results  we  can  learn  more.                

 
 By  A.  boivinianus  are  you  meaning  Aponogeton  boivinainus?  If  yes  then  then  I  guess  they  are  rhizome  and  not  rosette  plants?  Being  a  rhizome  feeder  they  will  have  little  dependency  on  the  subsrtate  as  the  will  mostly  draw  their  nutrition  from  rhizome.  When  it  is  exhausted  the  rhizome  needs  to  be  rested  to  replenish  it's  energy.  Yes  I  am  little  flamouxed  though  why  it  didnot  grow  in  your  hightech  as  it  should  have  sprouted  it's  leaves  irrespective  of  being  in  a  low  or  high  tech  tank.
 
 You  are  right  it  is  not  necessary  that  riversand  +  laterite  will  necessarily  lag  behind  ADA  or  any  other  commercial  substrate.  A  commercial  substrate  can  assure  success  with  some  amount  of  consistency  but  with  natural  elements  proability  of  consistent  success  is  not  assured.  I  have  seen  tanks  going  absolutely  haywire  with  commercial  substrates  while  little  gems  have  been  created  with  unbranded  stuff.  This  is  my  observation  after  having  tanks  with  clay,  laterite  and  commercial  (AZOO,  ADA)  substrates.  I  prefer  using  branded  subsrates  nowadays  but  then  I  would  stress  that  success  of  a  planted  tank  depends  on  a  dilligent  aquarist  and  not  on  the  rawmaterials  whether  branded  or  un-branded
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 kulsdood:  not  tried  ADA  before..  been  a  laterite  guy.  
 
 Madhu  after  many  many  discussions  and  many  people  telling  mixing  laterite  and  ADA  and  sumping  them  together  will  be  disaster...  i  am  now  thinking  of  the  following:
 
 the  reason  for  me  to  try  out  different  settings  was  that  of  the  Cost  involved  with  ADA.  So  if  i  dont  want  to  have  a  100%  laterite/Sand  and  100%  ADA  tank  with  both  going  to  the  same  sump,  then  i  can  do  a  40%  SAND  (no  Laterite)  +  60%  ADA  in  one  Tank  and  100%  ADA  in  other  tank...  in  this  case  we  can  check  out  to  see  whether  can  we  reduce  the  costing  of  ADA  in  a  Tank  if  the  Mixed  Tank  gives   atleast  70%  of  the  performance  of  an  100%  ADA  tank.
 
 So  the  tanks  have  been  glued  and  in  the  process  of  plumbing  them  together.  Will  get  my  photo's  updated  in  my  other  thread  the  "100  gallon  build".
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Tirtha C
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Feb 24, 2007
Posts: 4066
Location: Miyapur, Hyderabad

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 PK...  another  question  for  you.  Why  you  want  a  common  SUMP?????  
 
 Stick  to  your  plant  with  one  100%  ADA  tank  and  another  50:50  ADA  and  Sand  tank.  And  see  the  result.  Don't  mix  water  of  2  tanks  together.
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Perikaruppan
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Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Sep 05, 2005
Posts: 395


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: Re: ADA Substrate : Worth the expense? Reply with quote

 tirtha  that  is  another  Q  that  is  driving  me  crazy...  i  wanted  a  common  sump  so  that  i  dont  have  to  spend  more  on  2  canisters..  and  more  so,  later  on  adding  tanks  to  this  system  is  far  easier..  that  was  the  the  basic  reason.
 
 Plus,  maintaining  the  sump  is  far  easier  including  :
 1.  adding  my  Chiller  can  be  centralized  to  one  sump  instead  of  two  or  more  tanks
 2.  Doing  W/c  Changes  is  just  with  a  press  of  a  button  
 3.  Top  off  is  automated  so  that  minimized  the  maintenance  a  lot.  
 
 The  disadvantage  is  two  fold:  1.  loss  of  Co2  and  2.ADA  100%  Tank  Nutrients  will  get  diluted  as  the  other  tank  is  50:50...  so  unable  to  decide  on  that.
 
 Still  weighing  the  pro's  and  cons..and  this  component  is  still  undecided.
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