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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!!
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DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!!
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 thanks  Madan,  i  am  pretty  sure  that  the  unit  is  not  operational  more  than  2  hours  that  is  for  sure.  As  i  have  a  buzzer  linked  to  the  system  when  it  ons  so  i  have  a  count  on  the  no  of   time  it  ons  ...
 
 My  main  thing  is  that  this  unit  is  more  or  less  operates  with  the  same  power  consumption  as  that  of  a  regular  chilling  unit.  So  anyone  who  wants  to  use  a  chiller  for  the  tank,  we  have  spend  on  power.   Always  a  DIY  starts  with  first  implementing  the  basic  design  and  making  it  work  and  then  only  it  goes  to  perfecting  the  performance  of  it.  
 
 With  the  time  i  have  spent  on  Chiller-research   you  can  be  rest  assured  that  this  is  the  best  POWERFUL  solution  that  i  can  come  up  with.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

                                                   
Perikaruppan  wrote  (View  Post):                

 My  main  thing  is  that  this  unit  is  more  or  less  operates  with  the  same  power  consumption  as  that  of  a  regular  chilling  unit.                

 
 "Per  day"  is  the  catch  phrase   Very Happy.
 
 Yup,  agree  with  you,  more  reliable  than  a  chiller  out  in  the  market,  easy  servicing  and  repairs,  cost  effective  to  run  and  does  two  large  tanks  to  boot.
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nash81
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 @pk
 
 The  reason  i  asked  the  question  is,  if  you  remember  long  time  back  we  did  speak  about  the  same  and  at  that  time  even  i  was  experimenting  on  a  DIY  A/c  outdoor  unit  chiller.  However  my  results  were  way  off  than  yours.  So  was  trying  to  figure  out  what  would  have  been  wrong  there  or  reason  behind  the  same.   I  had  it  on  a  1.5ton  unit  as  well,  however  it  came  on  atleast  for  good  5hours  in  the  entire  day  vs  yours  at  1hour.  Although  the  cooling  efficiency  was  the  same.  The  only  thing  different  in  your  setup  and  mine  was  that  i  had  use  AL  heat  exchanger  around  7mtrs  and  a  standard  Digital  Thermostat  found  in  common  A/c  units.  Rest  all  of  it  was  pretty  much  the  same.  Which  is  why  i  am  wondering  how  come  both  our  experiments  were  so  off.  The  tank  temperature  though  from  ambient  temperature  was  around  8deg  lower.  So  if  room  temp  was  40  deg  the  tank  would  be  at  32deg  without  any  fans  with  the  lights  and  powerheads  running.  But  what  i  noticed  was  when  the  unit  was  switched  off.  The  tank  temperature  did  rise  a  lot  quicker  from  25  to  32  in  a  matter  for  4hours.  So  i  am  not  sure  if  i  was  wrong  somewhere.  
 
 Which  is  why  i  asked  so  many  questions.  Still  have  the  entire  setup  hooked  up  and  turned  off.  May  be  could  work  on  some  modifications  from  your  tips  and  get  it  going.
 
 Commercial  chillers  are  no  where  in  question  bro.  They  cant  give  us  the  kind  of  capacity  that  we  are  talking  about  here  at  the  kind  of  power  consumption  were  are  refring  too.  So  would  like  to  keep  them  out  of  the  conversation  only.  They  are  for  the  ones  who  prefer  looks  to  performance.
 
 They  are  100%  no  match  to  yours  !!  ...  Supper  job  there  bro.
 
 @Madan  sir
 
 The  reason  i  asked  that  question  and  not  to  link  it  with  the  a/c  was  for  the  above.  To  check  how  many  hours  its  actually  running  so  that  i  could  take  some  learnings  and  modify  my  design.
 
 Will  post  some  pics  of  my  design  after  i  get  it  out  from  the  garage,  once  i  finish  with  my  new  shop.  By  then  Pk  you  would  be  back  home  and  could  guide  me  as  well  where  the  mistake  might  have  been.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Nirav,  you  had  very  little  gas  in  your  unit.
 That's  why  it  ran  for  so  long.
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nash81
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Madan  sir  i  did  get  the  gas  refilled  by  the  a/c  technician  before  i  got  the  unit  working.  But  may  be  it  developed  a  leak  somewhere...  will  get  it  rechecked  this  time  around  and  update.
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Hey  nirav  as  madan  had  said  it  should  have  been  the  Gas  issue  or  a  gas  leak  issue.  But  the  biggest  CATCH  in  this  chiller  is  adjusting  the  capillary  unit  of  the  A/c  to  make  the  compressor  send  out  more  chilled  gas  i.e.,  when  the  A/c  unit's  are  designed  the  compressors  (minimum  performance  with  regards  to  chilling)  are  made  to  send  out  the  gas  at  a  particular  temperature  and  the  capillary  controls  that  temperature.  So  if  you  just  going  to  plug  the  copper  wires  and  run  it  on  the  cooling  coils,  your  performance  will  be  far  far  lower.  I  asked  my  A/c  guy  if  i  do  that  adjustment  wont  the  life  of  the  compressor  be  reduced  and  his  answer  was  a  strong  "NO",  he  said  it  is  like  making  an  high  speed  processor  chip  and  making  it  run  at  30%  its  capacity  (Which  is  very  easy  to  do)  whereas  we  are  hitting  around  70  to  80%  capacity  and  thats  all  the  difference  and  still  we  are  below  capacity!!!.
 
 Whereas  if  your  A/c  mechanic  can  have  the  details  of  the  length  of  the  tube  dia  of  the  tube  etc.,  (the  Chilling  Coil  tube),  they  have  some  formula's  which  they  work  on  and  adjust  the  capillary  tube  to  make  the  compressor  perform  like  a  FREEZER  unit  and  hence  the  cooling  will  be  far  more  quicker.  I  can  actually  see  frozen  ice  on  the  non-insulated  copper  wires  when  the  unit  runs  -  thatz  how  chill  the  Coil  gets.  With  regards  to  how  much  he  adjusted  the  Capillary,  i  am  not  sure  but  any  A/c  mechanic  will  do  it  as  the  details  are  available  with  everyone.  
 
 With  regards  to  leaks  in  the  unit,  there  are  many  places  to  look  at  :  (a)  ¬†mainly  at  the  outdoor  unit  to  copper  wire  connection  (i  changed  the  kit  to  total  brass  to  prevent  the  leaks  there)  (b)  from  copper  to  Ti  connection.  this  needs  to  be  tested  with  soap  solution  to  check  for  leaks.  similar  to  that  of  checking  Co2  leaks  from  gas  cylinders.
 
 Sure,  if  you  require  any  help  always  there  nirav.  Back  on  6th  to  chennai.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Ice  on  the  copper  tubes  means  there  is  still  some  inefficiency  in  the  system  and  the  gas  returning  back  to  the  compressor  has  a  lot  of  heat  extracting  capacity  left.  Increasing  the  heat  exchanger  coil  length  will  make  the  unit  more  efficient.
 
 Any  icing  just  after  the  "capillary"  and  before  the  heat  exchanger  coils  is  normal,  obviously  keeping  this  length  as  short  as  possible  will  improve  efficiency  as  you  are  not  cooling  ambient  air  over  a  long  length  of  piping.
 
 You  tell  me  where  you  have  icing.
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:06 am Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Cannot  reduce  the  distance  between  the  capillary  and  the  heat  exchanger  as  i  need  to  keep  the  unit  outside!!!...  loss  of  efficency  there  i  know.
 
 The  icing  is  there  at  the  copper  pipes  just  before  the  Ti  coil.  The  issue  is  that  Ti  coil  comes  in  lenghts  of  6  meteres  and  i  need  to  make  them  in  steps  of  6  meters  each  and  that  will  double  my  costing!!!
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 You  have  icing  near  the  Ti  coil  because  the  temperature  is  coolest  there,  up  until  the  Ti  coil  the  throttled  liquid  is  heating  up  (that's  what  your  capillary  does,  throttle  the  liquid  under  pressure  so  that  it  cools  immensely,  cold  liquid+gas  absorbs  the  heat  in  the  evaporator,  ie.,  your  Ti  coils,  in  larger  systems  we  use  a  TEV  -  Thermostatic  Expansion  Valve  with  different  orifices  for  different  application  and  system  capacity)   If  the  Cu  piping  is  too  long   insulation  will  help.
 
 Your  system  is  running  good,  all  this  is  jargon,  Congrats  and  enjoy!  Chuckle
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 thanks  madan.
 
 yes  jargon  they  are...  and  kinda  understood  those,  was  planning  to  use  TXV  but  they  said  it  is  for  bigger  systems  so  didnt  use  it!!
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vasvijay
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Dear  PK,  I  saw  u  r  posting  on  chiller.It  is  really  a  good  design.I  want  to  connect  it  to  multiple  tanks  in  my  fishroom.Can  u  plz  tell  me  how  to  go  about  it,
 
 Regards
 
 venkatavijayan
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Vijayan,  you  can  use  upto  2  to  3  tanks  to  the  maximum.  The  conditions  are  that  the  tanks  must  have  the  same  water  volume  and  approximately  the  same  lighting  and  motor  load  (this  is  to  ensure  that  the  additional  temperature  added  is  approximately  the  same  in  all  the  tanks).
 If  your  tanks  are  of  different  size,  i  believe  the  rate  of  water  flow  in  the  2nd  chiller  should  be  adjusted  accordingly.  Assuming  one  tank  is  1000  liters  and  water  flow  into  the  chiller  is  at  1200  ltrs  per  hour,  and  the  other  tank  is  500  ltrs  the  water  flow  into  the  chiller  should  be  2400  ltrs/hr.  As  the  1000ltrs  tank  will  take  more  time  to  chill  than  the  500ltrs  and  hence  increase  the  flow  rate  to  reduce  the  contact  time  and  hence  increase  the  time  to  chill.  But  this  is  only  a  manual  adjustment-  and  it  is  absolutely  experimental  and  nothing  that  is  proven  to  be  precise.  there  will  be  small  variation  in  temperature  in  the  tanks  but  i  dont  think  that  will  be  much  of  a  concern.
 
 With  regards  to  implementation,  the  chiller  coils  (Ti  or  Al)  should  be  in  series,  that  is  the  out  of  the  A/c  is  to  the  in  of  the  1st  coil,  the  out  of  the  1st  coil  is  to  the  in  of  the  2nd  coil  and  the  out  of  the  2nd  coil  is  to  the  in  of  the  A/c  to  complete  the  loop,  also  the  thermostat  probe  should  be  placed  in  the  largest  tank  to  minimize  errors  in  temperature  of  the  other  tanks.  
 
 If  you  require  any  other  info  do  let  me  know
 
 Pk
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vasvijay
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Dear  PK,   Thx  a  lot  for  replying./i  have  one  suggestion.For  multi  tanks  y  not  cool  a  container  in  which  water  from  all  the  tanks  can  be  cooled.I  think  it  may  be  less  effective  but  plz  let  me  know  if  you  tried  it.When  u  are  free  i  will  talk  to  you.
 
 Regards
 
 vijayan
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PC
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Fantastic  -  i  am  proud  of  you,  please  do  an  article  and  post  it  up  PK!
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 thanks  PC
 
 Vijay,  we  can  do  that..  make  a  container   box  and  send  the  Ti  coils  around  it.  Fill  the  box  with  constant  water  and  send  water  from  various  tanks  into  that  container  using  seperate  Al  coils,  and  Ti  coils  for  marine.  But  the  controls  will  become  complicated  i  think.  If  anyone  has  any  better  idea,  i  would  be  seriously  interested  in  implementing  it  to  test  it.
 
 Pk
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