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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Small Talks :thumb:
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Small Talks Thumb Up
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

                                                   
Bhushan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Speaking  of  bokeh....here  are  a  couple  of  shots  from  Sigma  180mm  f/3.5  EX  DG  APO  Macro  (1:1)  IF  HSM  
 
 
 
   
 
 I  find  this  focal  length  very  useful  doing  both  aquatic  and  insect  macros.  You  can  stay  quiet  a  bit  further  away  and  not  scare  your  subject.
 The  Sigma  has  a  great  built  quality  except  the  lens  coating  which  tends  to  flake  under  rough  use.  It  is  tack  sharp  and  the  AF  HSM  is  snappy  quick.  
 Bhushan                

 
 Bhusan,  awesome  pictures.  But  as  far  as  the  bokeh  goes,  I  am  not  happy  with.  Specially  the  second  one.  May  be  my  expectation  is  much  more  from  a  Prime  macro  that  too  with  such  a  large  aperture.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Tirtha  for  creamier  bokeh  the  distance  between  the  subject  and  the  object  behind  also  matters.
 
 The  greater  the  distance  the  better  the  bokeh.  So  we  cannot  actually  compare  here.  I  do  admit  I  have  never  used  a  sigma  150  macro.
 As  long  as  there  are  no  bright  halos  it  is  OK,  but  then  a  same  situation  comparison  is  always  better.
 
 My  Sigma  50-500  has  horrible  bokeh,  that  I'll  certify.
 
 So  I  would  not  dismiss  the  sigma  150  mm  macro  offhand,  it  is  a  pretty  good  lens.
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Bhushan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Thanks  a  lot  guys. 
 Madan,  I  find  the  70-200  VR  is  awesome  for  larger  fish.  It's  next  on  my  wtb  list.  The  newer  VR2  is  crazy  sharp  and  expensive.
 Tirtha,  both  the  shots  I  posted  are  probably  not  the  best  examples  of  bokeh.Madan  has  nicely  explained  the  relationship  between  the  background  blur  and  the  distance.
 Here  is  a  better  example.  The  moth  is  probably  10mm  big  hanging  on  a  rye  of  grass.  The  green  background  is  all  grass.  
 
 
 
 Bhushan
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

                                                   
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Tirtha  for  creamier  bokeh  the  distance  between  the  subject  and  the  object  behind  also  matters.
 
 The  greater  the  distance  the  better  the  bokeh.  So  we  cannot  actually  compare  here.  I  do  admit  I  have  never  used  a  sigma  150  macro.
 As  long  as  there  are  no  bright  halos  it  is  OK,  but  then  a  same  situation  comparison  is  always  better.
 
 My  Sigma  50-500  has  horrible  bokeh,  that  I'll  certify.
 
 So  I  would  not  dismiss  the  sigma  150  mm  macro  offhand,  it  is  a  pretty  good  lens.                

 
 Agreed  Sir.  But  take  a  closer  look  at  the  tail  of  the  shrimp  in  the  second  picture.  Thats  already  went  out  of  focus  so  the  rocks  behind  the  shrimps  (Distance  is  minimum  couple  of  cm)  should  be  knocked  off  completely.  Thats  why  I  said,  the  bokeh  is  not  creamy  as  it  should  be.   Smile  
 
 
                                                 
Bhushan  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Thanks  a  lot  guys. 
 Madan,  I  find  the  70-200  VR  is  awesome  for  larger  fish.  It's  next  on  my  wtb  list.  The  newer  VR2  is  crazy  sharp  and  expensive.
 Tirtha,  both  the  shots  I  posted  are  probably  not  the  best  examples  of  bokeh.Madan  has  nicely  explained  the  relationship  between  the  background  blur  and  the  distance.
 Here  is  a  better  example.  The  moth  is  probably  10mm  big  hanging  on  a  rye  of  grass.  The  green  background  is  all  grass.  
 
 
 
 Bhushan
                 

 
 Thats  what  is  called  a  super  smooth  background  even  the  background  subjects  are  close  enough  to  the  subject.  
 
 But  I  admit,  taking  macro  in  aquarium  is  much  more  tough  specially  when  you  are  not  taking  aid  of  overhead  flash.   Thumb Up
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Few  shots  from  my  side.  Sorry  for  posting  large  and  non  aquatic  images.  
 Hope  these  qualify  for  the  Bokeh.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Couple  of  days  back  going  through  some  posts  related  to  Focus  Stacking.  is  here  anyone  tried  that?  Will  be  great  to  see  some  outputs.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 2  cm  behind  will  not  be  knocked  off  completely.  Especially  if  there  are  areas  of  brightness  and  contrast.
 There's  some  sort  of  relationship  between  focal  length  and  the  Bokeh  "blur"  (distance  the  object  is  behind  the  subject).  
 I  don't  remember  exactly,
 A  Google  will  get  you  the  answers,  or  a  question  on  BPC  or  jjmehta.
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

                                                   
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                
There's  some  sort  of  relationship  between  focal  length  and  the  Bokeh  "blur"  (distance  the  object  is  behind  the  subject).                  

 
 Exactly.  Actually  the  relation  is  there  between  the  Focal  Length  and  the  Aperture.  The  lower  the  focal  length,  the  bigger  the  aperture  you  will  get.  Greater  the  aperture,  Bokeh  will  be  smoother.
 
 Correct  me  if  my  understanding  is  wrong.  
 
 But  I  don't  know,  how  the  things  work  in  a  Prime  where  we  have  a  fixed  f  stop.   Sad
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Bhushan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Tirtha,  in  a  prime  lens  the  focal  length  is  constant  and  not  the  aperture/  f  stop.  The  rule  you  mentioned  generally  applies  to  varing  aperture  zooms.  Madan  is  talking  about  the  relationship  between  the  subject  distance  &  background.  Bokeh  is  generally  not  a  consideration  for  macro  lenses  as  they  have  a  tendency  to  blur  the  background  any  ways  as  they  are  close  focusing.  Bokeh  is  appreciated  in  fast  prime  lenses  like  the  24,35  or  50  mm/  f1.4.  With  these  primes  as  you  said  larger  the  aperture  more  off'  will  the  background  be.
 Here  is  an  aquatic  example  of  blurred  background(  Anubias  sp)
 Subject-  Parotocinclus  maculicauda
 
 
 
 Bhushan
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Madan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Tirtha  in  my  105  mm  f  /  2.8.  The  largest  aperture  possible  is  2.8,  it's  wide  open  at  2.8.
 The  smallest  aperture  is  f  /  32  (stopped  down).  It's  closed  tight  as  a  rat's  a....
 
 f  /  32  you  get  a  greater  DOF,  for  f  /  2.8  your  DOF  is  something  like  10  mm,  with  the  lens  14  inches  from  the  subject..
 But  at  f  /  32  you  need  lots  of  light.  f  /  2.8  does  not  mean  the  aperture  cannot  be  varied,  it  just  denotes  the  largest  aperture.
 The  specs  sheet  of  your  lens  will  give  you  those  details.  
 
 Another  thing  the  objects  beyond  the  focus  plane  that's  +/-  5mm  from  the  subject  will  not  suddenly  go  all  creamy,
 they  will  be  visible,  as  blurred  objects,  at  a  certain  distance  beyond  the  subject  the  creamy  blurring  begins.  I  am  not  sure  what  the
 relationship  here  is.
 
 I  am  not  allowed,  otherwise  I'd  have  posted  a  Amano  tank  ready  for  photography,  
 the  background  is  placed  about  5-6  feet  behind  the  tank  and  backlit  (not  stuck  on  the  glass)
 for  that  effect  he  gets.  For  a  greater  DOF,  which  is  needed  for  tank  photography  you  need  to  go  upto  f  /  24  or  higher,
 so  a  background  stuck  on  the  glass  will  look  horrible.  I  remember  my  tank  that  I  entered  in  2001  was  shot  at  an  aperture  setting  of  f  /  24
 
 My  200  mm  lens  is  f  /  2.8  that  means  the  front  lens  will  have  a  minimum  dia  of  200  /  2.8  mm.
 So  the  lens,  "glass"  is  very  large,  and  you  pay  for  that  large  precision  ground  "glass"  among  many  other  things.
 A  500  mm  f  /  4  lens  will  have  a  front  glass  125  mm  dia,  no  wonder  that  prime  costs  a  lot.
 
 I  don't  know  where  my  105  mm  manual  /  sheet  has  got  to.   :cry:
 
 There's  also  something  about  the  number  of  segments/blades  (  I  am  not  sure  of  the  technical  term),  
 on  the  aperture,  what  is  that,  shade.  The  more  blades  you  have  closer  will  the  opening  resemble  a  circle
 better  your  bokeh.


Last edited by Madan on Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:26 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Sigma  has  a  500  mm  f  /  2.8  prime.  The  front  glass  is  500  /  2.8,  almost  178  mm,  that's  7  inches.
 and  it  weighs  some  30  kgs  and  costs  30  K  USD.
 
 Yes  you  pay  for  everything.   Chuckle
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 One  more  thing  the  lens  is  not  made  up  of  just  one  front  glass.
 
 It  can  have  a  number  of  Elements  (  individual  lenses  )  arranged  in  Groups  (2  or  even  3  lenses  can  make  one  group)
 So  you'll  see  in  the  specs  sheet  Elements  /  Groups  =  14/12.
 
 That's  14  individual  glass  lens  arranged  in  12  groups.  
 
 So  Larger  your  front  lens  dia,  larger  will  be  the  dia  of  all  "elements".
 Larger  your  Maximum  aperture  (  eg.,  f  /  2.8  ),  larger  will  all  be  the  dia  of  all  elements  that
 go  to  make  up  the  final  lens  you  hold  in  your  hand.  Costlier  it  gets.
 
 Finally,  whatever  lens  you  hold  in  your  hand,  you  take  the  picture  not  the  lens.  Very Happy  
 
 I  hope  this  helps.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Lovely  photographs  Bhushan.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Anyone  tried  the  Tammy  90?  I  thought  the  Tammy  90  and  the  Nikkor  105  were  THE  contenders  in  the  macro  world!  Yeah,  I  m  talking  Nikon,  as  I  dont  know  Canon.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Small Talks Thumb Up Reply with quote

 Nytyn,  I  put  a  lot  of  thought  before   I  bought  the  Sigma.  The  Tammy  90  is  supersharp  and  great  bang  for  the  buck.  The  only  thing  which  I  disliked  about  the  Tammy  is  the  slight  yellow  ting  which  it  renders  to  the  images.  Even  correct  WB  does  not  get  rid  of  this.
 Bhushan
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