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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Puntius Assimilis
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Puntius Assimilis
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

                                                   
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                
Marc,
 
 First  of  all,  I  would  like  to  give  a  clarification.  Madhu  called  me  to  tell  me  that  the  fishes  he  had  given  me  were  from  the  "Bhavani  River"  and  not  from  Valparai.  It  is  a  river  originating  in  the  Western  ghats  and  flowing  east.  So  we  have  this  P.assimilis  in  both  the  east  and  west  flowing  rivers,  Irrespective  of  rocky  or  muddy  bottoms.
 
 Secondly  we  have  not  come  across  any  mixed  population  as  of  now.
                 

 
 Bhavani  is  a  river  that  starts  from  Silent  Valley  national  park,  joins  Moyar  from  Ooty  in  Bhavani  sagar.   There  is  a  possibility  where  filamentosa  &  assimils  could  mix  up,  of  course  not  of  natural  geographic  reasons.   A  few  irrigation  cannals  from  cauvery  (mettur)  joins  bhavani  around  Erode.   These  were  caught  on  the  upstream  before  any  possibility  of  them  mixing  with  the  filamentosa  from  cauvery.   Haven't  come  across  any  filamentosa  upstream  of  pallipalayam  where  the  cannals  drain  into  bhavani.
 One  more  aspect  what  I  noticed  w.r.t  the  specimen  of  filamentosa/assimilis  I've  had  is,  the  caudral  blotch  is  almost  circular  in  most  of  the  species  at  around  2".   In  assimilis  it  elongates  over  2"  and  in  filamentosa  it  starts   to  form  the  tear  drop  at  over  3"  or  more.
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trevor
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

                                                   
Marc  wrote  (View  Post):                
Hey  Nayak,  one  more  character  I  noticed.  The  caudal  blotch  in  the  sita  species  is  rounded,  the  blotch  on  valparai  sp  is  elongate,  the  blotch  on  the  fish  I  have  is  also  elongate.  
 
 Do  you  have  P.assimilis  from  sita  with  elongate  blotch?  Do  the  caudal  blotch  vary  a  lot  among  fishes  of  the  same  population?                

 
 The  caudal  blotch  and  markings  change  as  the  fish  grows.  It  varies  from  type  locality.  Being  hobbyists  we  have  been  netting  them  only  in  waist  deep  water.  
 
 Adults  are  found  in  much  deeper  water.
 
 Until  we  get  fully  grown  specimens  from  all  type  locality  it  is  dangerous  to  hazard  a  guess.  
 
 This  will  be  rectified  in  future  trips  and  we  will  try  to  bring  back  adult  specimens.
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Marc
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 Thanks  Nayak,  Madhu  and  Trevor  for  you  inputs.
 
 Now  let  me  tell  you  what  I  have  in  hand.  I  have  a  set  of  P.  assimilis  from  various  locations.  
 
 1.  6  exs  from  Chalakudy,  Kerala.
 2.  1  ex  from  Kerala  (exact  locality  unknown)
 3.  7  exs  from  Bhavani  (round  caudal  blotch)
 4.  1  ex  from  Malapuram  kerala
 
 These  are  in  addition  to  the  1  ex  I  already  posted  which  I  got  from  Andrew  (mangalore  lot)  which  has  a  very  short  barbel.
 
 Now  I  have  attached  these  photos  (dont  know  if  its  allowed  to  post  pics  of  dead  fish  Sad  )  and  I  want  you  guys  to  gimme  your  opinions...............dont  you  think  that  there  is  more  than  one  type  of  P.  assimilis??
 
 All  the  specimens  I  have  are  adults  which  I  confirm  by  dissecting  them  to  check  their  gonads.  I  have  seen  the  one  you  have  posted  from  Bhavani  collected  by  Madhu  (the  long  blotched  one)  in  ZSI  collections.  It  did  not  have  a  proper  label  jus  said  cauvery  basin.  I  can  get  that  for  comparison  too.  
 
 Now  I  have  almost  all  the  topotypes  with  me  except  mangalore   which  I  hope  you  guys  will  pickle  it  up  for  me  Thumb Up  on  your  next  trip.
 
 I  feel  the  Kerala  ones  are  different  from  the  mangalore  ones  in  respect  to  body  depth.  The  bhavani  one  collected  by  madhu  is  very  different  from  the  Bhavani  one  I  have.  So  that  make  three  species  different  from  each  other............  Confused  
 
 Forum  open  for  suggestions  Very Happy  
 
 Best  regards,  Marcus
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 the  one  from  malapuram
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 Guys,
 
            Two  more  snaps  of  the  same  group......  not  the  best  quality  snaps
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Marc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 Thanks  Ashwin,  The  photos  look  cool  but  I  cant  see  the  exact  mouth  position  and  the  barbel  length.
 
 Is  it  inferior  and  long  barbel?  Good  thing  is  they  look  like  adults.  What  is  their  size?
 
 Best  regards,  Marc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 The  size  was  3.5   -  4  inchs  and  some  were  more   and  i  will  send  the  higher  resolution  photos  to  your  ID,  so  as  you  can  have  better  look.  The  caudal  bloch  is  interesting?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 This  is  one  more  snap  from  the  same  series
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 I  checked  out  the  higher  res  pics.  They  are  P.  assimilis.
 
 Beautiful  specimens.  When  did  you  catch  these?
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Severumkid
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 Man  this  is  damn  confusing.
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Deepak267
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 very  interesting  read..
 
 Deepak
 www.AquariumHomeCare.com
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baril
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

                                                   
Kajsa12  wrote  (View  Post):                
These  are  my  goats.  Smile  
 The  smallest  of  my  3  males  is  the  most  colourful  and  dominant  one.
 They  are  about  3.5-4  inches.
 
 Not  the  best  pics,  but  they  are  hard  to  get  when  they're  chasing  the  females.
 
 With  flash
 
 
 Without  flash
                 

 
 Are  they  wildcaught  or  Europe-bred?
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Marc
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 I  am  relocating  the  post  made  by  Madhu  to  this  thread  so  that  we  dont  hijack  Hayaths  photo  diary
 
 Madhu  said............
 
 Marc,  
 We  also  need  to  take  into  account  another  factor.   A  well  fed  fish  would  possibly  appear  to  have  a  sub-terminal  mouth  compared  to  a  lean  fish.  
 For  eg,  if  we  were  to  compare  the  2  filamentosus  that  Hayath  has  posted  without  any  external  reference,  we  would  probably  be  inclined  to  assimilis  as  the  first  one  and  the  later  being  filamentosus.   One  way  that  I  persumed  to  say  between  the  ones  which  had  intermediate  profile  like  Hayath's  is  the  placement  of  the  lower  jaw  w.r.t  the  upper  jaw.   Also  while  feeding  from  a  bare  bottom  tank,  the  filaments  I  had  almost  had  to  go  vertically  downwards  to  grab  food  whereas  an  assimilis  would  cruise  over  it  the  way  say  a  Horalabiosa  does.   Where  do  we  draw  the  line?  
 Now  its  on  your  shoulders  to  let  us  know  if  there  are  any  difference  in  the  jaw  bone/inter  orbital  pattern.
 
 And  I  reply.........
 
 Good  query  Madhu,
 
 I  tend  to  differ  in  opinion  as  to  mouth  position  being  altered  in  a  well  fed  fish.  The  body  depth/thickness  may  change  but  mouth  position................a  bit  far  fetched  Smile  
 
 For  less  confusion  it  is  better  to  take  the  upper  jaw  and  refernce  it  to  the  eye  orbit  as  the  lower  jaw  is  movable  and  sometimes  preserved  specimens  are  with  open  mouths.  The  upper  jaw  even  though  it  is  protractile  and  be  referenced  to  the  orbit.
 
 Next  iding  Hayaths  P.  filamentosus  as  P.  assimilis  is  not  valid  on  the  basis  of  just  mouth  position  because  P  .assimilis  has  a  barbel  equal  to  eye  diameter  or  sometimes  even  more.  
 
 Regards  to  feeding  I  agree  with  you  cause  I  have  observed  what  you  say  in  my  aquarium  as  well.  
 
 I  would  sum  up  by  saying  P.  filamentosus  and  P.  assimilis  are  indeed  two  valid  species  with  differences  that  sometimes  overlap.  This  could  also  be  due  to  the  fact  that  these  are  two  species  in  transition  (as  said  by  Menon  1967)  which  one  was  first  we  dont  know  Very Happy
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 Thanks  for  the  clarification  Marc.   Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Puntius Assimilis Reply with quote

 Oh  My  God!  This  is  the  second  time  i  am  going  through  this  thread  entirely,  and  i  could  hardly  grasp  50%  of  the  knowledge  out  there  Very Happy  
 Made  a  very  interesting  read!
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