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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Biotope- Concept and implementation!
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Biotope- Concept and implementation!
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Lawrenze
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: Biotope- Concept and implementation! Reply with quote

 I  prefer  calling  them  "Theme"  tanks  rather  than  Biotopes  Smile  A  biotope  would  require  very  specific  water  temperature,  water  movement  and  water  chemistry,  I  guess
 Cheers
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rasikanayak
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 Nice  topic,  Avik.
 
 Nice  explanations  Marc  and  Hamza.
 
 
                                                 
crazyfishy  wrote  (View  Post):                
I  prefer  calling  them  "Theme"  tanks  rather  than  Biotopes  Smile  A  biotope  would  require  very  specific  water  temperature,  water  movement  and  water  chemistry,  I  guess
 Cheers                

 Lawrence,  about  specific  water  temperature,  movement  and  water  chemistry.
 All  Biotopes  will  not  need  fiddling  with  all  the  three  parameters  and  most  importantly  your  geographical  location  plays  a  significant  part.
 Eg:  
 For  the  Gangamoola  biotope,
 1)  I  have  a  very  strong  flow.  The  rocks  and  power  head  act  in  directing  the  flow,  creating  strong  currents  and  dead  spots.  
 2)  The  Bangalore  temperature  keeps  the  water  cool,  which  is  another  necessity  of  streams  flowing  in  the  Ghats.  But  mind,  I  have  come  across  streams  with  thriving  fish  populations  which  was  very  warm,  might  be  in  excess  of  35  degrees.  
 3)  Coming  to  water  Chemistry.  You  got  me  there.  What  might  be  the  significant  water  chemistry  difference  between  the  different  water  bodies  flowing  through  the  Ghats  and  Deccan  plateau?  Any  data?  In  its  absence  my  opinion  comes  into  play,  and  it  says  not  much  Chuckle  
 
 But  the  same  conditions  above  might  not  hold  good  for  say  someone  from  Europe,  or  the  Americas  or  even  northern  India.  For  them  to  set  up  the  Gangamoola  Biotope  they  might  have  to  significantly  alter  their  water  parameters.
 
 So  you  get  the  Idea.  A  Biotope  need  not  be  very  high  tech  with  all  the  parameters  fiddled,  to  be  considered  one.
 
 Regards,
 Nayak
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Lawrenze
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 Thanks,  Nayak  I  get  your  point  Thumb Up  ...I  will  start  calling  my  theme  tanks  Biotopes  now  Smile  
 Cheers
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 No  problem,  Lawrence.  
 
 This  aquarium  hobby  is  very  subjective  and  individualistic  Chuckle  
 
 Biotope:  Collected  from  a  specific  spot  in  a  specific  water  body.  
 Habitat:  Collected  from  various  spots  in  the  same  water  body.
 Theme:  Collected  from  various  waterbody  of  a  specific  region.  e.g:  Western  Ghats,  India,  Africa  etc.
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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joyban
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 Hi  Avik,
 
 A  biotope  tank  should  in  all  possibility  try  and  reflect  the  actual  conditions  found  in  Nature  in  that  Biotope.
 
 So  if  you  are  planning  a  Biotope  Tank  for  Sundarbans  please  try  and  get  these  basic  facts  and  then  plan  the  set-up.  (  Assuming  that  the  Fishes  are  all  Wild  Caught  and  that  you  have  to  undertake  a  Habitat  Exploration  and  Study  trip  to  measure  these  parameters)   
 
 1.   Water  Parameter  -pH,  Conductivity  etc.  
 2.   Brackish  ?
 3.   Flow  of  Water  ?  -  River  -  Lake
 4.   Substrate  ?
 5.   Water  Temperature  ?
 6.   Air  temperature  ?
 7.   Water  Plants  ?
 8.   Other  elements  like  Wood,  Rocks,  Algae  (aufwuchs)  etc.
 9.   Food  Elements  for  the  Fish  ?  Food  cycle  ?
 
 Probably  next  would  be  to  decide  the  fish  that  you  may  want  to  keep  and  numbers  and  special  food  requirements  if  any...
 
 Once  you  have  these  basic  facts  then  depending  on  the  tank  size  the  biotope  can  be  planned  and  then  made.
 
 Please  also  understand  as  these  are  wild  caught  fishes  there  should  be  proper  planned  method  to  domesticate   them  including  quarantine,  de-worming  etc  etc.
 
 Probably  the  biggest  challenge  is  the  Food  and  the  Water  Parameter  aspect  ...
 
 Best  Regards
 
 Sujoy
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 The  most  basic  mistake  most  people  do  is  try  going  too  scientific  and  hence  ending  up  underestimating  the  smart  little  fish  that  can  adapt  far  better  than  what  we  can  think  of.   We  often  talk  about  all  sci-fi  parameters  but  one  basic  mistake  is,  we  assume  that  parameters  are  fixed  in  the  wild.
 Let  me  give  a  little  example.   In  Kumaradhara,  there  was  a  rivulet  with  pebbles  where  water  flow  was  almost  washing  my  feet  away  and  a  few  meters  from  it  was  a  stagnant  pool  with  accumulated  leaves  pumping  in  high  doses  of  hydrogen  sulphide  and  ahead  of  it  was  a  sandy  substrate  with  open  waters  and  a  few  mts  ahead  was  a  total  rocky  rivulet  again  with  fair  enough  flow.   The  stagnant  water  was  a  scorching  32C  and  the  deeper  parts  were  as  low  as  26  at  the  same  time.   I  came  across  a  school  of  canarensis  that  happily  cruised  through  all  of  the  above.   Now  how  does  one  explain  that?
 When  it  comes  to  decor  a  fish  for  eg  a  Channa  doesn't  care  if  its  a  flower  pot  or  a  pvc  pipe  or  piled  up  rocks  or  a  drift  wood.   All  it  needs  is  a  place  to  hide.
 So  the  basic  idea  behind  a  biotope  tank  is  purely  for  our  sake.   We  find  something  in  the  wild  and  we  go  on  replicating  it.   The  little  fish  cares  nothing  about  it  until  it  gets  what  it  can  adapt  with.   I  dont  see  how  a  fish  could  be  happy  when  one  replicates  an  exact  xerox  copy  of  a  biotope  and  over  time  gets  lazy  on  feeding  and/or  waterchanges.
 The  bottomline  is,  the  setup/scaping  is  all  for  our  eyes  and  show  offs.   All  that  the  little  fish  need  is,  something  in  the  range  of  what  it  can  adapt  with  and  what  it  has  evolved  for.
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

                                                   
madhu_ulysses  wrote  (View  Post):                
The  bottomline  is,  the  setup/scaping  is  all  for  our  eyes  and  show  offs.   All  that  the  little  fish  need  is,  something  in  the  range  of  what  it  can  adapt  with  and  what  it  has  evolved  for.                

 My  thoughts  exactly,  good  one  mate.  Chuckle
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beta
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 I  differ  with  the  Skirt  Chaser.  While  you  might  not  need  to  exactly  match  the  biotope  from  which  they  come  from,  doing  so  would  often  give  insights  into  how  they  behave  in  the  wild.
 If  you  want  to  see  the  sand  sifting  behavior  of  Earth  Eaters,  wouldn't  you  want  to  give  them  the  fine  sand  to  see  their  sifting  behavior?  While  this  doesn't  matter  for  fishes  which  have  been  tank  bred  for  long,  it  does  matter  quite  a  bit  to  Wild  caught  fishes  which  need  specific  requirements  to  be  met  to  look  their  best.
 
 
 
                                                 
madhu_ulysses  wrote  (View  Post):                
pvc  pipe                

 
 Madan:  Please  note!
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

                                                   
beta  wrote  (View  Post):                

 If  you  want  to  see  the  sand  sifting  behavior  of  Earth  Eaters,  wouldn't  you  want  to  give  them  the  fine  sand  to  see  their  sifting  behavior?  While  this  doesn't  matter  for  fishes  which  have  been  tank  bred  for  long,  it  does  matter  quite  a  bit  to  Wild  caught  fishes  which  need  specific  requirements  to  be  met  to  look  their  best.                

 
 Exactly  my  point  Beetra  when  I  said,  giving  them  what  they  are  evolved  to.   My  loach  tank  has  nothing  but  fine  sand  with  some  rocks/boulders  here  and  there  and  half  a  dozen  Nemacheilus  settling  with  their  micro-territories  around  a  single  rock  burrowing  like  rabbits.  Just  to  differ  on  the  point  that  most  of  us  assume  parameters  are  static  in  the  wild.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

                                                   
madhu_ulysses  wrote  (View  Post):                
pvc  pipe                

 
 Madan:  Please  note!                

 
 Not  again   Sad
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Severumkid
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:13 am Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 For  setting  up  a  biotope  tank  you  need  to  create  similar  conditions  in  which  the  fish  is  found  in  the  wild.  Hardscape,  flora,  fauna  and  water  parameters  included.  You  can  gauge  the  water  parameter  of  the  collection  spot  and  try  to  recreate  it  in  your  aquaria.   Now  a  days  people  have  started  reading  the  internet,  and  have  some  prior  experience  of  growing  common  plants  in  their  tanks  and  are  becoming  aware  of  topics  like  biotope  and  making  tanks  with  what  and  what  not  and  naming  it  a  biotope  tank  Smile
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HeikoBleher
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:55 am Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 Hi  "biotope"  guys...
 
 First  of  all  a  happy  and  healthy  good  year  with  lots  of  biotopes...
 
 Now  I  have  the  feeling  after  browsing  through  this  thread  that  some  of  you  really  do  not  understand  the  concept  of  a  biotope,  nor  the  meaning  or  the  significaton  of  the  word  "Biotope",  nor  "Habitat",  and  "theme"  could  also  better  as  demonstrated  here  to  be  interpreted  just  as  a  "name",  simply  because  no  one  could  ever  do  an
 "African  theme"  (wherer  4000  differnet  species  live  and  almost  everyone  in  a  different  niche);  nor  an
 "Amazon  theme"  (where  6000  different  species  live  and  each  one  in  a  distinct  environment);  etc.
 And  I  will  not  go  here  into  what  a  real  Biotope  is  or  a  Habitat  is,  I  hve  given  over  50  lectures  and  seminars  about  this  last  year,  and  can  give  you  one  in  India  maybe  some  time  this  year.  But  the  fact  is,  that  it  is  by  large  mis-understood.
 And  just  a  few  points:
 -  a  biotope  should  have  the  assembalage  of  fishes  which  live  together,  and  the  decor  be  exactly  (or  very  similar)  for  each  one  of  the  species  living  in  that  particular  biotope.  That  is:  The  biotope  must  consist  of  the  ground  of  one  of  its  species,  the  rock(size)  of  the  other,  the  correct  root  for  the  thrid,  the  (floating)plant  for  the  fourth,  shade  portion  for  the  fifth,  etc.,  and  
 -  even  tank  breed  fish  species  should  be  in  the  correct  biotope  as  it  is  still  in  their  gene,  even  if  F10  or  more  (I  experienced  this  hundreds  of  times),  it  is  not  that  a  tank  breed  does  not  know  anymore  where  it  comes  from  -  except  mutants  (ie  Parrot  cichlids,  cripled  lifebeareres,  or  gouramies,  etc.)
 
 The  pictures  I  have  seen  of  the  scats  and  archer  fiehs  is  a  nice  biotope,  and  a  correct  one,  from  what  I  saw.
 
 You  can  see  on  my  website  several  aquariums  I  decorated  according  to  the  biotope  with  the  correct  assembalage  of  fishes  and  the  exact  decor  material  for  each.  And  you  can  see  on  the  videos,  that  in  most  aquariums  the  fishes  started  to  spawn  within  the  same  day  of  decoration...  In  the  biotope  with  all  the  other  species  around  of  them....  because  they  felt  "at  home".  
 
 Best  regards
 Heiko  Bleher
 www.aquapress-bleher.com
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saumya
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 thank  you  Heiko  Bleher  for  the  explanation,  you  are  an  inspiration  to  people  like  us.
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rasikanayak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Biotope tank Reply with quote

 I  have  split  this  thread  so  as  not  to  hijack  Avik's  thread.  We  are  keenly  watching  that  Sundarban  Biotope  thread  by  our  fellow  hobbyists  and  wishing  them  all  the  best.  Let  us  not  clutter  it.  here  is  the  link  to  that  thread...
 http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=227716#227716
 
 
                                                 
saumya  wrote  (View  Post):                
thank  you  Heiko  Bleher  for  the  explanation,  you  are  an  inspiration  to  people  like  us.                

 I  just  saw  Heiko  bleher's  reply.  He  is  definitely  an  inspiration.  Let  me  go  through  his  website  and  his  definition  of  Biotopes,  habitats  and  themes.  As  also  his  opinion  of  us  not  understanding  a  biotope  needs  to  be  verified,  before  being  accepted  as  the  truth!
 
 This  might  take  some  time  to  refute  him,  since  I  am  at  work  and  I  do  not  have  the  necessary  material  with  me  to  post  here.
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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saumya
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Biotope- Concept and implementation! Reply with quote

 thanks  again  Nayak  Sir,  it  is  always  nice  to  learn  about  different  perspectives  from  constructive  debates.
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joyban
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Biotope- Concept and implementation! Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 Here  is  a  Link  to  Biotope  tanks  which  Heiko  has  done  :-
 
 http://www.aquapress-bleher.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=15&Itemid=64
 
 and  under  each  of  this  section  there  are  detailed  description  which  you  can  then  see.
 
 Regards
 
 Sujoy
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