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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - new discus in trouble
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new discus in trouble
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 my  tank  size  is  84"x24"x30".  
 there  are  14  discus  3.5-4"  size.  
 3  pigeons  4  goldens  3  red  turquoise  and  4  red  maps.  
 10  blue  diamonds  2"
 20  otocinclus  1"
 filtration  is  -2  sponge  filters  and  1x2213  eheim
 aeration-thru  sponge  filters  and  a  2'  air  curtain.
 temperature  at  28  degrees  celsius
 
 the  fish  arrived  on  1st  april.  3-4  of  the  big  ones  were  very  stressed  on  arrival  and  on  their  sides  breathing  slowly.the  2"  ones  were  quiet  active  and  swimming  around.the  bags  were  floated  for  45  minutes  and  then  bags  opened  and  water  allowed  to  mix  and  the  fish  swam  out  on  their  own.
 the  next  2-3  days  the  fish  looked  better,but  the  stress  bars  and  the  black  peppering  was  visible  .the  fins  were  outstretched  and  they  were  moving  about.
 on  the  4th  they  started  flashing/scratching  against  the  wires,heater  etc.,the  small  ones  were  scratching  more.
 so  after  discussing  with  the  breeder  i  started  adding  salt  about  1gm/litre  over  a  period  of  2  days.and  started  azoo  ecto  parasite  remover  at  10ml/100  litre  for  3  days  and  temperature  was  increased  to  29-30  degrees..so  after  the  salt  treatment  and  3  days  of  azoo  being  over  i  changed  75%  water  today.now  adding  new  water  to  the  tank.
 in  the  three  days  during  azoo  and   salt  treatment  there  was  no  feeding.before  removing  the  water  today  i  fed  the  fish  with  tetra  bits.
 current  status  of  livestock--  the   bigger  discus  appear  less  affected  by  the  parasites,and  look  less  stressed.the  small  discus  are  dark  blue/black  in  colour.viewed  from  the  side  the  small  ones  are  showing  slime  patches  on  the  body.one  of  the  2"  discus  lost  the  battle  today.Wall Bang   Wall Bang   Wall Bang  .the  otocinclus  are  doing  fine.
 the  water  being  used  is  ground  water,the  only  parameter  i  know  is  TDS  is  approx  200.
 please  help  me  guys  and  advise  me  where  i  am  going  wrong.
 thanks
 sameer
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 the  smaller  discus  have  strained  breathing  also.they  are  grouped  together  in  any  corner  with  their  mouths  downward.
 sameer
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Discusolic
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
3  pigeons  4  goldens  3  red  turquoise  and  4  red  maps.
 10  blue  diamonds  2"  20  otocinclus  1"                

 Looks  like  all  these  fishes  are  not  from  single  source  ,  if  they  are  from  different  source  and  from  different  tanks  ,  did  you  quarantine  them  before  putting  all  these  fishes  in  same  tank  ?  If  no  then  this  will  be  big  problem  for  you  .
 
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
so  after  discussing  with  the  breeder  i  started  adding  salt  about  1gm/litre  over  a  period  of  2  days.and  started  azoo  ecto  parasite  remover  at  10ml/100  litre  for  3  days  and  temperature  was  increased  to  29-30  degrees..                

 Azoo  for  ecto  parasites  may  contains  Formalin  and  to  increase  the  temp  up  to  30  deg  during  such  treatment   is  not  a  good  idea  .  Formalin  and  increase  in  temp  may  have  reduced  the  oxygen  level  in  tank  .  try  to  keep  aeration  on  high  .  
 
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
he  only  parameter  i  know  is  TDS  is  approx  200.
 please  help  me  guys  and  advise  me  where  i  am  going  wrong.                

 If  you  have  taken  these  discus  from  any  breeder  ,  I  am  very  sure  these  fishes  may  be  in  soft  water  .  If  they  are  from  Mumbai  ,  they  must  be  in  municipal  water  with  Ph  7-7.5  and  TDS  below  75  ppm  .  Now  you  are  keeping  them  in  water  with  TDS  200  ppm  and  may  be  high  Ph  .  see  the  difference  in  water  parameter  .  It  will  take  them  some  time  to  adapt  to  such  water  parameter  .  from  soft  to  hard  .
 
 Since  as  per  instructions  from  the  breeder  (  who  knows  what  the  problem  is  with  his  lot  )  you  had  already  started  with  the  treatment  with   Azoo.  I  think  there  may  be  some  Med  (  formalin  base  )  left  in  the  water  ,  hence  i  will  not  advice  you  to  go  with  PP  otherwise  PP  was  good  choice  .
 
 I  suggest   you  just  do  good  WC  for  few  days  and  monitor  them  ,  i  think  due  to  sudden  change  in  water  parameter  from  soft  to  hard  they  are  under  stress  and  they  need  time  to  settle  ,  but  before  that  you  already  dumped  strong  med  in  to  the  tank  .
 
 We  request  you  to  post  the  pics  of  your  discus  to  understand  the  problem  .
 
 Thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 firstly,  thank  you  shiva  sir  for  taking  out  time  .
 
 secondly  the  fish  are  from  two  different  sources  so  i  am  already  in  big  trouble.
 
 the  azoo  medicine  definitely  has  formalin,i  can  identify  the  odour  ,and  malachite  green  also  because  of  the  green  colour.
 
 i  understood  your  high  temperature  and  formalin  point,i  will  reduce  the  temperature  and  set  the  heater  to   28degrees.
 
 i  realized  with  medication  i  would  be  needing  extra  aeration  so  luckily  i  put  a  2,ft  long  diffuser  with  an  extra  air  pump.
 
 since  they  were  scratching/flashing  a  lot  the  breeder  suspected  costia  so  he  suggested  azoo  as  he  was  regularly  using  it,but  i  understood  your  point  about  medicine  on  already  stressed  fish.
 
 does  pp  mean  potassium  permanganate?i  will  wait  for  any  other  treatment  till  formalin  is  totally  gone  from  the  water.
 
 i  removed  75%  of  the  old  wate(yesterday  afternoon)r  and  the  new  water  has  not  yet  happened  totally  ,since  i  am  refilling  water  with  a  airline  tube,since  i  dont
 want  to  stress/shock  them  further.
 
 since  salt  was  there  in  the  previous  treatment  ,should  i  continue  with  it  in  the  current  water  change.1gm/litre.
 
 when  and  how  much  should  be  the  next  water  change  and  what  percentage?
 
 can  i  feed  them?  what  and  how  much?
 adding  pics  in  some  time
 
 thanks  again
 waiting  for  your  reply
 sameer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 Sameer  ,
 
 PP  will  be  BIG  NO  in  this  tank  .  Post  the  pic  of  these  discus  to  get  better  idea  .  
 continue  with  salt  .  dosage  1gm  per  ltr  as  per  the  water  replaced  .
 feed  your  fish  only  once  ,  before  WC.
 
 Thanks
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 some  pics
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 some  more  pics
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 Your  discus  are  not  in  good  health  ,  they  may  be  sick  from  last  2  months  .  I  am  very  sad  to  see  such  discus  ,  will  try  to  treat  them  ,  but  condition  of  some  of  the  discus  are  very  bad  .


Last edited by Discusolic on Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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bengalman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 any  healthy  discus  should  not  squeeze  their  fins  rather  they  broaden  those.some  of  your  BDs  are  so  sick  that  they  change  their  color.please  do  heavy  water  change  and  provide  balanced  diet  like  tetra  bits,hikari  discus  bio  gold  and  GHM.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 the  pics  you  provided  shows  very  unhealthy  discus.  don't  know  from  whom  you  have  sourced  them  or  don't  want  to  comment  also.  just  go  as  what  Shiva  sir  advises.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 thanks  all  of  you  for  the  advice  ,specially  shiva.
 wish  me  luck.
 thanks  
 sameer
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 Hi,  I  will  not  say  anything  regarding  your  discus  as  already  experts  have  commented  on  that.  But  I  believe  you  should  separate  the  blackish  discuses  like  the  blue  diamonds  from  the  relatively  healthy  ones  and  treat  them  separately  as  Shiva  sir  said.  And  it  is  not  advisable  to  keep  the  smaller  sized  discus  with  bigger  ones  as  they  will  be  starved  due  to  the  competition  for  the  food  and  eventually  get  stunted.  So  separate  the  smaller  ones  with  clamped  fins  and  slimy  coat,  black  body  and  treat  according  to  Shiva  sir.  
 Thanks
 Prabuddha  Sarkar
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 trust  me  work  as  shiva  sir  informed,  it  does  work....
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 All  izzz  well  Sameer..hope  you  are  able  to  treat  and  revive  each  and  everyone  of  the  fishes.
 
 All  the  best.
 
 Raj
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: new discus in trouble Reply with quote

 I  agree  with  jerin.  Go  according  to  Shiva  sir,that  will  help.I  have  not  mentioned  one  thing  in  my  last  thread.that  is  you  have  to  treat  all  of  your  discuses.just  told  to  separate  the  small  critical  ones  and  treat  all  of  them.I  have  not  come  accross  this  kind  of  problem  during  my  fish  keeping.but  all  comes  under  learning  process.so  hope4  the  best.  Thanks
 prabuddha
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