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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Setting up a Nano Marine Tank
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Setting up a Nano Marine Tank
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humaid
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 Hi...
 
 Lately  I  have  been  mesmerized  the  the  beauty  of  marine  fish.  
 So,  I'm  planning  to  venture  into  the  area.  Till  date  I  have  not  been  near  a  Marine  tank,  not  even  touched  a  marine  tank,  so  I  guess  you  will  know  how  much  of  a  novice  I'm  in  marine.
 
 I  have  started  reading  on  the  net  regarding  marine  tanks,  but  cant  find  any  info  as  to  what  I'm  looking  for,  rather  I'm  not  using  the  correct  key  words.
 
 I  need  to  start  from  scratch.
 
 1.  Tank  size:  24"  X  15"  12"
 2.  I  can  manage  a  sump:  18"  X  1"  X  1"
 3.  I'm  on  a  low  budget,  so  equipment  has  to  be  minimum.
 4.  Maintenance  has  to  be  minimum.
 5.  Plan  to  keep  one  2-3  fish.  May  be  Clowns.  and  some  cleaner  shrimp.
 6.  Is  live  rock  really  necessary?  if  so,  will  MMLR  do?  where  can  I  get  the  live  rock  to  seed  it?
 7.  Is  an  anemone  necessary  if  I  plan  to  keep  clowns?
 8.  What  salt  to  use?
 9.  What  all  will  be  the  test  kits  I  will  need  to  buy  and  from  where?
 10.  Is  a  protein  skimmer  necessary?  If  so,  what  would  be  the  cheapest  option?
 11.  What  should  be  the  substrate?  will  beach  sand  do?
 12.  How  long  should  I  cycle  the  tank?
 
 There  are  lots  of  questions  I  have,  as  my  knowledge  is  nil  regarding  marine.
 
 Please  advice.
 
 Regards,
 Humaid
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ospark007
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 I  am  a  novice  too  but  i  can  answer  your  one  question.
 You  would  be  needing  anemones  while  keeping  clowns.
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gremlin
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
I  am  a  novice  too  but  i  can  answer  your  one  question.  
 You  would  be  needing  anemones  while  keeping  clowns.                

 
 Absolutely  "wrong"  answer.  You  DO  NOT  need  anemones  to  have  clowns,  they'll  do  fine  without  anemones.  The  problem  with  anemones  are:
 1.  You'll  need  excellent  water  quality,  you  will  not  get  it  unless  your  tank  is  matured  (6-7  months)
 2.  Anemones  need  lot  of  light,  more  light  more  heat  and  you'll  need  a  chiller.  Think  of  the  expense  for  food  Halides  or  T5's  or  LED's  and  a  chiller.
 3.  Anemones  don't  like  parameter  swing,  in  a  small  tank  like  yours  even  a  little  change  will  swing  the  parameter  to  a  great  degree.  Your  temp  will  go  up  easly  and  if  you  don't  have  auto  topff  your  salinity  will  go  up.
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Nonza
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 1.  Tank  size:  24"  X  15"  12"   -  Ok,  bigger  is  better
 2.  I  can  manage  a  sump:  18"  X  1"  X  1"  -  Ok,  bigger  is  better  
 3.  I'm  on  a  low  budget,  so  equipment  has  to  be  minimum.  -  then  don't  keep  an  anemone
 4.  Maintenance  has  to  be  minimum.  -  then  don't  keep  an  anemone
 5.  Plan  to  keep  one  2-3  fish.  May  be  Clowns.  and  some  cleaner  shrimp.  -  ok
 6.  Is  live  rock  really  necessary?  if  so,  will  MMLR  do?  where  can  I  get  the  live  rock  to  seed  it?  -  NOt  required.  Can  use  MMLR.  Don't  need  to  seed
 7.  Is  an  anemone  necessary  if  I  plan  to  keep  clowns?  -  Nope
 8.  What  salt  to  use?  -  Any.  Red  Sea  is  fine
 9.  What  all  will  be  the  test  kits  I  will  need  to  buy  and  from  where?  -  Nitrite,  Ph,  Refractometer
 10.  Is  a  protein  skimmer  necessary?  If  so,  what  would  be  the  cheapest  option?  -  You  get  what  you  pay  for  with  skimmers
 11.  What  should  be  the  substrate?  will  beach  sand  do?  -  No  beach  sand.  Crushed  coral  or  aragonite
 12.  How  long  should  I  cycle  the  tank?  -  typically,  about  3  weeks,  Nitrite  =  0
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silasharris
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 Its  nice  that  you  have  got  interest  in  having  tank.  But  its  great  responsibility  also.  Because  we  are  dealing  with  live  creatures.  who  can  not  move  form  out  tank.  So  Its  our  responsibility  to  take  care  of  them.
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sid
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 Unless  you're  making  horrendous  spelling  mistakes  i  don't  see  why  you  cant  find  marine  tank  info  on  the  internet.  There  is  so  much  to  read  on  the  net  that  by  the  time  you  finish  you'll  probably  give  up  on  marine.  Since  it's  your  first  time  i  personally  think  you  shouldn't  go  for  such  a  small  tank.  if  money  is  a  concern  then  don't  go  for  a  marine  tank.  It's  definitely  not  a  budget  hobby.  Your  dedication  towards  researching  and  reading  will  determine  your  success  with  a  marine  tank  besides  actual  experience  of  course.
 
 And  trust  me,  you  won't  stop  at  just  clowns.
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uzair
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 your  idea  seems  interesting,  I  would  also  like  to  do  something  similar.  
 experts  please  give  your  valuable  comments.
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djay
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 Psst,  typed  entire  message  and  power  konks  off.  Anyway,  let  me  try  for  the  second  time
 
 
 Nano  tanks  or  nano  reefs  are  for  experts  and  not  for  beginners.  Having  said  that,  I  am  sure  you  will  not  stop  nano  tank  because  we  advised  here.  Hence  here  comes  my  advice.
 
 
 Important  
 ========
 
 Here  is  the  order
 
 
 a)  Money  -  Show  me  the  money.  If  you  are  pinching  pennies,  you  should  get  out  now.   Thumb Down     As  sid  said,  once  you  get  started,  money  just  flows.  If  money  doesnt  flow,  chances  are  you  are  sitting  on  a  failing  tank
 
 
 b)  Patience  and  Effort  -  Patience  pays.  Marine  tanks  dont  develop  in  a  day  or  a  week  or  a  month.  From  what  I  have  seen,  it  takes  at  least  two  years,  to  have  a  successful  beautiful  tank,  assuming  you  are  not  spraying  money  and  buying  everything  off  the  shelf.
 
 Read  a  lot,  there  is  enough  on  the  net.
 
 c)  Water  Change  -  To  start  off  I  would  suggest  a  3  ft  tank  (even  for  a  nano)  for  you.  Water  quality  is  very  important  and  the  best  way  to  maintain  is  by  changing  weekly/fortnightly.  For  a  2  footer,  I  will  go  with  weekly  water  change  and  for  a  3  footer,  I  will  go  for  a  fortnightly  change.  Change  20-25%  water.   No  time  for  this,  get  away  now.  Sad  
 
 d)  Test,  Test,  Test  -   If  you  see  any  abnormality,  first  thing  to  do  is  test  the  water.  Test  your  water  every  week  religiously.  When  in  doubt  test
 
 Digital  thermometer  in  the  aquarium  is  needed  so  that  you  can  notice  temp  variations.
 
 What  to  test  for  -  Regularly  -  Salinity  and  ph.  For  the  first  6  months,  test  for  ammonia,  nitrite  and  nitrate.  At  the  minimum  ammonia.   
 
 Brands  you  get  Aquatic  Remedies  and  API.  Aquatic  Remedies  are  desi  and  hence  cheap  and  will  do  the  job.  
 
 e)  Live  Rock  -  LR  is  a  must  and  have  atleast  10  Kgs.  To  cut  costs,  you  can  use  Uncured  Rocks  which  will  also  help  you  to  start  Nitrogen  cycle  without  fish.  You  can  add  bit  more  Dead  Rock  which  will  become  Live  over  a  period  of  time.  Dont  expect  1  kg  of  Live  Rock  will  seed  your  Dead  Rock.  LR  will  keep  Water  Quality  in  a  better  shape.  My  guess  is  MMLR  is  a  waste  of  time,  because  from  what  I  have  seen  Dead  Rock  doesnt  get  seeded  easily.  Even  after  a  year  of  my  tank,  I  can  still  see  nothing  much  happened  to  my  Dead  Rock.
 
 You  can  add  your  Live  Rock  in  2nd-3rd  day  after  the  salt  water  is  added  to  the  tank
 
 f)  Adding  Fish  :  For  a  2  ft  tank,  I  will  not  think  about  more  than  2  fishes  for  the  first  6  months.  Even  for  a  3  ft  tank,  I  will  be  cautious  on  3rd  fish.  If  you  are  going  with  LR,  I  will  keep  my  fishes  off  till  there  is  no  ammonia  or  nitrite.  If  you  have  a  protein  skimmer,  the  production  rate  of  brown  junk  comes  down  once  things  stablize.  When  this  happens,  go  for  a  50%  water  change,  wait  for  a  day  and  add  your  fishes.  Typically  this  happens  around  3  weeks  to  6  weeks  (  depending  upon  how  cured  the  rock  is).     
 
 If  you  are  going  without  LR,  add  first  fish  at  the  end  of  the  first  week.  Forget  about  adding  anything  for  the  next  4  weeks.  I  think  you  will  be  good  for  another  fish  then.  First  fish  has  to  be  a  hardy  fish.  Typically  Damsels  will  be  the  best  bet  here.  Clowns,  didnt  work  for  me.
 
 Dont  go  with  any  fish  which  can  grow  above  4"
 
 
 g)  Sump  Filter  -  Keeps  your  water  in  a  good  condition  and  what  you  have  should  be  sufficient
 
 
 h)  Pump  -  Have  one  pump  or  two  pumps  to  circulate  water  all  the  time  
 
 
 i)  Fan  -  Since  you  are  not  planning  for  a  reef,  and  can  make  do  with  decorative  lighting,  I  will  suggest  a  fan  with  which  you  should  get  by  in  Pune  Summer.  Anemone  needs  a  heavy  lighting  and  that  heats  up  water  and  will  need  a  chiller.  
 
 Please  note  temp  variations  are  a  major  stress  factor  and  hence  you  will  need  to  manage  it.
 
 
 If  you  keep  up  with  c),  d),  e),  f),  g),  h)  and  i),  there  is  no  way  you  can  fail.   Rock On  Ofcourse  if  you  dont  have  a)  and  b),  dont  enter  this  hobby
 
 
 Nice  to  have
 =========
 
 a)  Skimmer  -  I  would  like  to  put  this  above,  but  I  think  you  can  get  by  and  add  this  a  bit  later.  Weipro  hangons  are  cheap  and  will  do  the  job  for  you.  Air  bubbles  skimmers  didnt  work  for  me.  
 
 b)  Chiller  -  If  you  are  planning  for  a  reef  or  staying  in  a  very  hot  place,  this  is  a  must.  I  guess  you  should  be  able  to  get  by  with  a  fan  in  pune  summer.
 
 e)  Package  Drinking  Water  -  For  mixing  with  Salt.  Nice  to  have  feature   Thumb Up  
 
 
 Others
 =====
 
 a)  Anemone,  needs  heavy  lights  and  this  can  cause  huge  temp  swings,  killing  your  fishes.  Clown  can  happily  live  even  without  Anemone,  so  leave  the  Anemone  aside.
 
 b)  Substrate  could  be  crushed  corals  sand,  argonite  or  live  sand.  They  will  act  as  ph  buffers  and  will  not  let  the  ph  drop  dramatically.  Beach  Sand  will  not  act  as  ph  buffer  and  that  is  the  reason  why  it  is  avoided.  Also,  for  a  reef,  the  beach  sand  may  contain  lot  of  impurities  which  can  affect  the  reef.
 
 c)  You  can  use  Red  Sea  or  AquaCraft  brands.  Personally,  I  like  AquaCraft,  however  ph  drop  a  bit  faster  here.  You  also  get  RedCoral  which  is  a  local  brand.  Though  I  didnt  hear  anything  negative  about  it,  I  didnt  use  it  either,  so  I  cannot  suggest.
 
 
 
 I  thought  I  will  give  a  ball  park  figures  for  3  ft  tanks.  I  can  also  tell  you,  at  this  point  of  time,  this  is  the  lowest  possible  cost  and  you  cannot  get  below  this.  Mods,  I  thought  this  will  be  useful  and  since  these  are  generic  numbers,  it  will  not  hurt  price  policy  of  this  site.
 
 
 1.  Salt  (Monthly)  -   400-  500
 2.  Salt  (Initial  and  First  Change)  -  750
 3.  Live  Rock  -  1500  -  2000
 4.  Test  Kits  -  1500  -  2000
 5.  Sump  -  1000  -  2000
 6.  Tank  -  1000  -  2000
 7.  Pumps,  Thermometers  -  750  -  1000
 8.  Skimmer  -  1500  -  2500
 
 Minimum  total  setup  cost  -  8,000  (  Assuming  you  got  all  the  best  deals)
 Expected  Cost  -  11,000  -  14,000
 
 I  am  putting  this  costs  up  here  to  get  you  prepared  for  what  is  in  store  for  you   Thumbs Up
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Severumkid
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 Nice  writeup  Djay  Smile
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yajur
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 nice  work  djay
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josyjames
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 Hey  djay,
 
 A  very  nice  writeup.  Helping  a  lot  for  the  novice  people  like  me..  Even  I  was  planning  for  a  nano  setup...
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nvj1
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 Thnx  for  the  ballpark  figures,  djay..
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djay
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 Re-reading  my  update,  I  felt  I  have  come  out  a  bit  rude  and  looked  like  I  was  trying  to  discourage  Humaid.   In  fact  opposite  is  true  and  I  seriously  hope  we  have  more  hobbyists  in  marine  side.  I  apologize  if  it  sounded  a  bit  rude.
 
 At  the  same  time,  considering  Indian  environment  is  very  nascent  on  the  marine  side,  I  tried  to  keep  my  give  a  minimal  workable  setup  so  that  we  can  get  a  wonderful  tank.  Indian  environment  is  much  more  difficult  when  compared  to  the  US  world,  where  most  of  the  writing  on  marine  hobby  comes  from.  Most  of  the  advanced  equipment  like  reactors,  chillers,  lights,  designer  foods,  plumbing  equipment  are  not  available  in  India.  Also  firangis  are  good  at  DIYs  and  this  is  one  essential  skill  in  marine  hobby.  (I  cant  imagine  myself  drilling  a  hole  to  the  tank  whereas  I  had  seen  forums  where  people  build  their  tank,  right  from  stand)
 
 
 One  other  thing  I  missed  earlier  in  my  update  is  procurement
 
 
 Most  difficulty  I  faced  on  the  marine  side  is  with  procurement.  Procuring  stuff  is  not  easy  on  the  marine  side.  You  find  very  few  LFS  stocking  marine  equipment,  fishes,  salt  etc.   And  if  at  all,  you  find  any  LFS  they  price  it  so  grossly,  you  feel  like  puking  (atleast  in  hyderabad).  With  very  few  hobbyists  on  marine  side,  you  can  feel  their  pain  too.  Online  buying  too  had  been  unreliable  for  me  with  dates  and  delivery  times  having  no  meaning.  Most  of  the  stuff  I  got  on  Marine  side  is  through  relationships  and  through  hobbyists  turned  LFS  who  at  heart  are  still  basically  hobbyists.  And  they  had  given  me  at  a  reasonable  price.  This  is  the  primary  motivation  for  me  giving  out  the  minimum  costs  :)
 
 I  think  to  be  economical  on  marine,  if  you  are  based  in  Chennai  or  Kolkatta,  you  have  a  good  chance.  I  am  not  too  sure  about  Mumbai  and  Bangalore.  Others  are  fighting  against  odds.  Gulls  from  Nagpur  would  vouch  for  this   Drinking  
 
 
 Last  but  not  the  least,  the  wholier  than  thou  government  laws  against  marine  hobby,  which  while  allowing  huge  chemical  complexes/oil  refineries  being  built  near  coral  reefs.  Tuticorin  port  is  a  major  port  situated  right  near  a  coral  reef,  Gulf  of  Mannar.  And  there  are  dozen  industries  which  are  heavy  pollutants  of  the  sea  around  Tuticorin.  And  you  have  Setu  Samudram  project  coming  up.  Same  case  is  near  the  Gulf  of  Kutch  in  Gujarat.  With  so  many  oil  refineries,  it  is  just  a  accident  waiting  to  happen.  One  oil  spill  and  your  Gulf  of  Kutch  is  gone.  Now  enuf  with  my  ranting.
 
 
 I  am  happy  you  folks  liked  my  earlier  update  and  seriously  hope  there  will  be  a  many  more  marine  folks  around,  so  that  LFS  have  economies  of  scale   Thumb Up
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sarge
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 djay,  the  knowledge  and  experience  about  marine  tanks  you  have  shared  through  your  posts  above  is  commendable  and  useful.  Thanks   Thumb Up
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abhijitk
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up a Nano Marine Tank Reply with quote

 BUMP
 
 
 Humaid,  I'm  following  this  thread  with  interest.  Smile
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