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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Emergency: White specks on fish fins
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Emergency: White specks on fish fins
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ShankarB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Many  of  my  fishes  have  developed  white  specks  on  their  fins  and  bodies.   These  include  denisons,  angels,  platys,  neon  tetras  and  sword  tails.   Some  of  them  are  already  dying.      The  development  happened  so  fast  that  I  couldn't  make  sense  of  what's  happening.
 
 What  have  I  do  so  far:
 1)  Put  in  a  heater.
 2)  Put  in  10  drops  of  a  medicine  called  Hana  Aqua  Care  (General  Aid)  to  the  main  tank  (which  is  planted).   I  HAVE  NOT  added  salt.
 
 (About  this  Hana  medicine:  I  asked  for  rid-all,  but  the  LFS  gave  me  this.  This  is  a  greenish  yellow  liquid  -  very  thick  which  slowly  dissolved  like  a  drop  of  color  in  water.)
 
 What  have  I  not  done?
 1)  Quarantined  affected  fishes.   I  don't  have  well  maintained  hospital  tanks  where  I  can  transfer  the  fishes.   And  since  the  disease  seems  to  be  widespread,  I  don't  know  how  many  fishes  I  would  have  to  quarantine,
 
 I'm  not  quite  sure  if  this  is  sufficient.   I  checked  a  couple  of  discussions  here  and  I  saw  similar  diseases  -  for  e.g.  white  spots  appearing  on  neon  tetras.   The  forum  members  had  advised  that  the  sick  fishes  be  quarantined  and  rid-all  and  rock  salt  be  added  to  the  water.   But  I  have  already  added  this  medicine  to  the  main  tank  (before  checking  the  forum).
 
 Currently  I  can  see  that  only  my  rainbows,  guppies  and  rams  seem  to  be  OK.   Not  sure  when  they'll  start  dropping  dead.
 
 I  don't  want  to  lose  all  these  fishes.   Pls.  suggest  what  I  can  do.   I  have  no  experience  of  fish  diseases  like  this.     Pls.  help.
 
 [I  recently  added  a  pair  of  dwarf  gouramis  and  some  new  plants,  i.e.  about  4-5  days  back.   Would  that  have  caused  the  trouble?]
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ShankarB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Should  I  do  a  3/4  change  of  water?   Will  it  help  reduce  the  speed  of  the  disease  spreading?
 
 Should  I  still  quarantine  the  sick  fishes?   Can  I  keep  them  in  a  bucket  or  tub  in  the  absence  of  better  space?   In  this  scenario,  what  should  I  do  with  the  main  tank  and  the  other  fishes?
 
 Will  this  affect  all  sorts  of  fishes  or  are  some  of  them  immune  to  the  disease?
 
 I'm  sorry  for  too  many  questions,  pls.  suggest  me  a  good  way  so  that  I  can  reduce  the  damage.   Thanks,
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 You  have  Ich.  The  best  thing  you  can  do  is  keep  changing  water.  Change  50%  water  for  the  next  few  weeks.  Also  add  epsom  salt  to  the  water.  Read  up  on  how  much  proportion.
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Zakk
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 -  mutiple  post  in  error  -


Last edited by Zakk on Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 NEVER  add  fish  from  the  store  to  your  display  tank.  1st  rule  of  fish  keeping.  Always  QT  them.
 
 having  barked  that  out  of  the  way,
 
 You  do  have  Ich.  Multiple  reasons  why  you  could  have  gotten  it.  starting  with  the  new  additions  to  bad  water  params.
 
 1:  What  is  your  water  temp
 2:  What  are  your  fish?
 3:  Do  you  rock  salt?
 4:  What  are  your  water  readings  in  terms  of  the  3  basics  ie:  Ammonia,  Nitrite  and  Nitrate?
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ShankarB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Viresh,
 
 1)  I  have  no  accurate  way  of  measuring  my  water  temp.   But  I  have  set  my  rod  heater  to  25  celsius.
 
 2)  What  fishes:   a  pair  of  German  gold  rams,  a  pair  of  ramirezi,  a  pair  of  angles,  a  pair  each  of  neon,  black  neon  and  skeleton  tetras,  a  pair  of  dwarf  gourami,  2  pairs  of  rainbows,  some  guppies,  some  platys.   All  are  pretty  small  fishes.
 
 Some  neons,  sword  tails  and  denisons  have  died  already.
 
 3)  I  have  a  rod  heater.   I  have  rock  salt  (the  one  used  in  kitchen).  Is  rock  salt  same  as  epsom  salt?
 
 4)  I  feel  lame,  but  I  don't  have  water  readings  on  nitrates  and  ammonia.   I  don't  have  kits.   I  did  a  3/4  change  of  water  only  on  last  Friday  night.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 OK  all  those  fish  can  handle  higher  temps.
 
 Up  the  water  to  32  slowly.  1  degree  every  hour.
 
 don't  use  Epsom  salt  for  this.  use  the  rock  salt.  2table  spoon  for  every  10  liters  of  water.  increase  ariation.  put  in  a  n  air-stone  and  pump.  let  it  run  all  the  time.  if  you  notice  a  fish  with  excess  spots  on  it,  pull  it  out  of  the  tank  and  perform  a  saltwater  bath.
 
 Salt  Water  Bath:
 2table  spoons  of  rock  salt  for  ever  liter  of  water.  mix  it  till  the  rock  is  dissolved.  remove  excess  undiluted  rock  salt  out.  dip  your  fish  in  this.  do  NOT  move  away  when  you  are  doin  this  else  u  will  end  up  with  dead  fish.  keep  your  hand  right  under  the  fish  and  observe  it  carefully.  when  you  see  it  starting  to  gasp  for  air,  remove  it  from  the  bath  and  put  it  back  in  its  tank.  again.  Do  NOT  MOVE  AWAY  when  doin  this.
 
 2nd  rule:  ALWAYS  keep  test  kits  and  thermometer.  This  is  vital.  
 
 Just  an  FYI......your  water  temp  is  way  too  cold.  Ich  is  a  cold  water  loving  'creature'  if  you  can  call  it  that.
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ShankarB
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Viresh,  thanks.   So,  I  understand  that  this  is  what  I'm  supposed  to  do:
 
 1)  Increase  water  temp  to  32  slowly,  every  hour.
 
 2)  Take  most  affected  fishes  out  and  do  the  salt  water  bath  as  prescribed.   I  suppose  I  need  to  do  this  once  only  for  every  affected  fish.
 
 3)  Do  a  50%  water  change  for  the  next  few  days.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Is  rock  salt  is  same  as  what  they  call  in  Tamil  as  'kal  uppu'?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Viresh,  I  tried  the  salt  water  bath  on  a  couple  of  fishes.   I  see  visible  changes  in  the  denison  -  the  white  speckles  have  come  down.   This  is  great.   I  hope  the  fishes  survive.
 
 Btw,  I  added  kal  uppu,  and  not  exactly  rock  salt  (which  is  called  something  else  in  Tamil)  to  the  bath  and  tried  this.   
 
 Will  adding  salt  to  the  main  tank  directly  help?   I  know  I  have  plants,  but  I  think  I  can  afford  to  lose  them  than  losing  my  fishes.
 
 Or  is  there  a  better  solution/  medicine  to  solving  this?   Tomorrow,  I  can  try  to  find  out  the  medicine  from  nearby  LFS  and  try  it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Kal  Uppu  is  Rock  Salt.  (Kal  -  Rock;  Uppu  -  Salt)
 
 I  would  sacrifice  the  plants  to  save  the  fish  but  thats  just  me.  You  might  have  to  do  this  once  a  day  for  every  fish.
 
 Keep  doin  the  water  changes  for  a  period  of  15  days.  Keep  the  temps  at  32  for  1  week.  The  reason  being,  warm  water  speedup  the  life  cycle  of  the  Ich  Protozoan.  It  will  only  be  able  to  attach  a  fish  in  the  larve  stage.  
 
 Am  sorry  but  i  was  way  to  tired  to  stay  up  earlier.
 
 Just  how  big  is  your  tank?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Hi  Shankar,
 
 What  Viresh  mentioned  as  rock  salt,  is  the  same  "Kal  uppu",  so  don't  worry.  Its  crystalline  Sodium  chloride         (cooking  salt  in  large  Crystal  form).
 
 Just  follow  what  Viresh  has  mentioned   Thumb Up  ,  they  will  heal.  
 
 Just  few  pointers:-
 
 >>Even  after  you  see  visible  white  spots  not  there  on  the  fish,  still  run  the  treatment  for  4  days  more.  This  is  based  on  the  life  cycle  of  ich  parasite  that  causes  white  spots,  Also  to  prevent  any  bacterial  infection  forming  from  the  white  spots  on  the  skin  of  the  fish.
 
 >>  No  need  to  add  any  medicine  into  the  main  tank  with  plants,  since  Ich  parasite  will  die  off  if  their  host  are  not  present.  I  am  assuming  you  have  shifted  all  your  fishes  to  another  hospital  tank  as  of  now.
 
 >>  Another  thing  is  you  are  using  a  general  aid  medicine(Hana  aquacure)  which  is  acriflavine(greenish  yellow  color),  instead  buy  Methylene  Blue,  most  LFS  will  know  it  as  Blue  medicine.   Use  this  in  the  hospital  tank  &  it  will  help  in  speedy  recovery.  Don't  use  in  the  main  tank.
 
 Do  go  through  the  link  below  you  will  understand  the  recommendations  better  &  about  ich.
 
 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uyW2GIEjQ6DcvloAYTZaJEGCoAXiqTfCBP2LGYYdq-0/edit?hl=en_GB&authkey=CJi448wD
 
 Regards
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 I  would  agree  with  everything  Krash  said  except  for  the  medication.  Methyl  Blue  is  starting  to  become  ineffective  against  strains  of  the  Ich  Protozoa.  I  had  an  outbreak  in  a  friends  where  we  had  to  literally  boil  the  water  to  38  degrees  to  kill  the  free  swimming  Ich.  This  and  Cotton  Mouth  (Columinaris)  are  the  absolute  worse.
 
 Oh,  the  water  changes,  make  sure  you  are  sucking  up  water  from  the  bottom  of  the  tank.  That's  where  the  eggs  and  dead  protozoa  will  be  found.  
 
 If  i  were  you,  i  would  nuke  the  entire  tank  seeing  that  nearly  every  fish  has  been  infected.  Moving  them  to  a  QT  now  is  of  no  use.
 
 Even  once  the  fish  show  signs  of  beating  the  Ich  outbreak,  like  crash  said,  keep  it  at  32  degrees  but  for  7  days  (the  time  period  for  the  gestation  of  unhatched  eggs  are  24  hours.  In  warm  water  the  complete  life  cycle  from  egg  to  death  is  4  days  for  the  free  swimming  protozoan)  ensure  your  tank  is  maintained  at  28  Degrees  with  weekly  water  changes  and  regular  filter  maintenance  and  you  are  golden.
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ShankarB
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 Viresh  &  Krash,  thanks  so  much  for  the  detailed  instructions.   And  Viresh,  there's  no  need  for  you  to  wake  up  to  watch  this.   Your  earlier  instructions  are  very  helpful.   
 
 Good  that  kal  uppu  is  rock  salt.   I  used  it  y'day  night  in  desperation  and  was  happy  to  see  that  it  has  positive  results.   I'm  summarizing  my  understanding:
 
 1)  Main  Tank:  
 Change  50%  water  every  day  from  the  tank  for  the  next  5  days.  
 
 I'm  having  trouble  with  this  as  the  water  in  the  tank  is  at  a  much  higher  temperature  than  the  fresh  water  I  use  for  change.   I'm  worried  about  the  temp.  changes.
 
 2)   Hospital  Tank/  Bucket:   The  rainbows,  rams  and  guppies  seem  not  affected  so  I  don't  want  to  subject  them  to  this  treatment.   OK?
 The  guppies  also  seem  to  go  in  a  state  of  trans  at  this  high  temperature.
 
 So  will  move  the  angels,  tetras,  denison  and  gouramis  to  a  bucket  -  that's  the  best  I  have.   Will  set  the  temperature  in  this  bucket  to  32  degrees  or  higher.     Will  also  keep  changing  the  water  in  this  bucket.   OK?
 
 3)  On  nuking  the  tank  (what  does  it  mean?)  -  will  it  help  if  I  remove  all  the  plants  for  now  and  do  all  the  above  activities  in  the  main  tank  directly?   I  mean,  can  I  save  the  plants?   Or  will  I  have  to  forgo  the  plants  as  they  might  also  be  hosts  for  the  itch  protozoa?
 
 I'm  getting  a  little  woolly  on  the  no.  of  setups  that  I  need  to  maintain  and  the  amount  of  water  that  I  have  to  keep  ready  for  changes.   Btw,  my  main  tank  is  120  liters.
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Zakk
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Aug 10, 2009
Posts: 1091
Location: Kochi, Kerala

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Emergency: White specks on fish fins Reply with quote

 To  'Nuke'  the  tank  means  treat  the  entire  tank  it  self.  Technically  this  term  is  used  when  you  overdose  the  medication  to  a  tank.
 
 Dont  worry  about  the  temp  diff.  just  refill  the  water  slowly.  When  you  are  filling  up  the  water,  make  sure  you  fill  it  near  the  heater  it  self.  Have  you  added  an  air  stone  added  to  it?  Remember.  Warm  water  contains  less  dissolved  O2.  Lesser  disolved  O2  will  slow  down  your  fish  and  make  em  look  like  they  have  been  puffing  the  magic  dragon.  Along  with  providing  O2  to  the  water,  air  stones  help  create  a  current  that  helps  the  water  circulate  well.  
 
 I  would  still  add  rocksalt  to  your  QT/Hosp  Tank.  Consider  this  as  a  already  affected  tank  with  possible  contamination.  Just  cos  the  fish  arent  displaying  the  signs,  trust  me,  the  larvae  have  attached  them  selves  to  the  fish.  But  do  what  you  feel  is  best  for  your  fish  since  none  of  us  can  actually  see  the  condition  of  the  fish.  Keep  a  close  look  out  for  secondary  infections.  Also,  never  keep  2  sick  fish  in  the  same  tank.  Can  lead  to  unwanted  complications  if  the  water  body  decides  to  crash  on  you.  Make  sure  you  add  an  airstone  to  the  hosp  tank/QT/bucket.
 
 Ich  and  Columinaris  are  fast  spreading  highly  contagious  illnesses.  1  fish  gets  it,  you  are  liable  to  loose  every  fish  to  it.  
 
 In  this  hobby,  you  ALWAYS  over  stock  on  equipment  and  never  throw  away  stuff.  i  have  like  8  or  9  airpumps,  4  heaters,  3  filters,  5  power  heads,   least  8  sponge  filters,  extra  test  kits,  fish  nets  and  pre-prepared  medicated  fish  food  just  laying  around  apart  from  filters  and  air  pumps  and  stones  for  my  empty  tanks.  If  your  running  a  120  liter  main,  i  would  suggest  you  cycle  and  keep  a  60  liter  tank  to  keep  your  new  fish  in  it  for  a  week  before  you  add  it  to  your  main  tank.  This  tank  can  be  doubled  up  as  a  Hosp  Tank/QT.  (my  ex  used  to  complain  that  i  care  more  for  my  fish  than  i  did  for  her.....which  was  true.....least  they  didnt  chew  my  brains  out  6  hours  a  day  like  she  did!  Very Happy)
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