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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - DIY Nilkamal Wet & Dry Filter Proposal
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DIY Nilkamal Wet & Dry Filter Proposal
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rskelkar
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: DIY Nilkamal Wet & Dry Filter Proposal Reply with quote

 I  am  in  the  process  of  putting  together  my  375g  reef.  For  biological  filtering,  after  reading  all  the  material  available  on  the  net  I  finally  made  up  my  mind  to  go  in  for  Wet  &  Dry  Filter.  I  required  a  Wet  &  Dry  Filter  with  a  sump  with  approximately  300  lit.  capacity  because  I  am  using  a  300lit  surge  tank  in  the  setup.  After  giving  a  thorough  thought  to  the  matter,  I  have  come  up  with  a  Desi  solution.  I  have  never  ever  constructed  any  Wet  &  Dry  Filter.  Hence,  before  actually  implementing  it  I  thought  it  wise  to  put  it  here  for  scrutiny  by  senior  experienced  aquarists.  
 
 
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rskelkar
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: Details Reply with quote

 It  is  proposed  to  use  4  Nilkamal  crates,  with  two  lids  from  their  64000  series.  (  I  have  no  affiliation  with  Nilkamal.  They  just  happen  to  be  the  biggest  crate  manufacturers  in  Asia.  )  Their  64000  family  is  very  popular  and  is  good  value  for  your  money.  They  have  two  dimentions  fixed.  565  mm  (22  1/2")  length  and  365  mm  (  14  1/2")  width.  They  are  stackable.  Height  is  different  for  different  crates.  Starting  from  3"  you  can  get  any  height  upto  19"  height.
 Today  I  purchased  4  crates  with  2  lids.  64080  (3"),  64240  (  9  1/4"),  64375  (  14  3/4"),  and  64485  (  19")  along  with  2  nos.  64000  lids.  It  totally  costed  me  Rs.  2257/-.  I  propose  to  use  3"  tray  with  lid  as  trickle  tray.  It  will  have  polystyrene  wool  slab  and  a  central  trickle  pipe  running  lengthwise.  The  pipe    will  bring  in  the  water.  This  tray  will  have  a  lid  of  its  own.  So  that  the  polystyrene  wool  slab  can  be  cleaned  when  required.  The  bottom  os  this  tray  will  have  an  array  of  1mm  holes  for  the  water  to  tricle  down.  I  propose  to  paste  the  two  crates  9  1/4"  and  14  3/4"  together  by  silicone  to  form  the  wet  &  dry  tray.  Before  doing  that  I  want  to  install  tank  output  nipple  on  the  lowest  point  in  the  side  of  the  14  3/4"  crate  and  want  to  drill  a  grid  of  10mm  holes  in  the  bottom  of  the  9  1/4"  crate.  Thereafter  I  will  paste  the  sandwith.  The  9  1/4"  tray  will  hold  the  bio-balls  or  other  substrate  as  required.  To  the  right  side  of  this  sandwith  will  be  the  19"  crate  connected  to  it  acting  as  a  sump.  It  will  have  independant  lid  and  again  another  tank  output  nipple  connecting  to  the  pump.  We  can  in  fact  cascade  one  more  crate  linearly  to  increase  the  sump  capacity.  The  sump  nipples  will  have  samll  pvc  foot  valves  to  act  as  barriers.  We  can  use  the  sump/s  for  various  purposes.  We  can  intersact  with  the  water  here  instead  of  the  display  tank.
 Here  is  another  picture  with  trickle  tray  removed.
 
 
 
 Do  you  find  any  faults  with  the  arrangement?
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:40 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 If  I  understood  you  correctly,  water  will  flow;
 
 Filter  pad  =>  Bioballs  =>  Sand  bed  (?)  =>  Sump  =>  Tank.
 
 If  I  were  you,  I'd  place  the  trays  side-by-side  inseted  of  stacked,  and  have  the  sand  bed  inlet  at  the  base  and  outlet  at  the  top...  the  reasons  being  to  prevent  sand  from  clogging  the  outlet  or  getting  into  the  sump  and  increase  aeration  in  the  sand  bed.
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rskelkar
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:17 am Post subject: Explaination Reply with quote

 Left  white  tray  on  top  will  be  trickle  tray.  Left  green  tray  will  have  bio-balls.  Left  Blue  tray  will  collect  dripping  water  and  The  water  will  flow  to  right  green  tray,  the  sump.  In  fact  Left  Green  and  Blue  trays  will  be  glued  together.  Thus  left  grren  and  blue  sandwitch  and  right  green  together  collectively  will  constitute  the  sump.  No  sand  anywhere.
 
 Water  flow
 
 Left  white  =>  Left  Green  =>  Left  Blue  =>  Right  Green
 
 From  Right  Green  the  water  will  be  pumped  back  to  the  display  tank.
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 What  is  the  point  of  the  left  blue  tray  then?  Might  as  well  make  that  the  sump.
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:00 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 @Rahul
 Mr.Kelkar  will  be  using  a  pretty  powerful  pump.So  two  sumps(left  blue  and  right  green)  will  always  be  needed  to  keep  pump  from  running  thirsty.If  left  blue  is  made  the  sump,and  is  stuck  to  left  top  green,how  will  the  water  be  accessed?hence  two  water  only  compartments.
 
 @Mr.Kelkar....all  seems  to  be  fine.One  problem:Inspite  of  all  the  filtration  above  left  blue  dabba,over  a  period  of  time  mulm/sludge  will  settle  at  the  lowest  1  inch  of  blue  box.Though  this  may  not  be  such  a  big  prob.....but  I  understand  that  the  blue  box  will  be  totally  inaccessible.In  the  event  you  need  to  clean  out  the  blue  box...?
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:38 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Murthy,  the  flowrate  of  the  pump  is  more  or  less  irrelevant  to  the  size  of  the  sump.  Assuming  an  overflow  is  used,  the  total  volume  being  pumped  up  will  flow  down  to  the  filter.  If  the  flow  out  of  the  tank  and  down  to  the  sump  is  less  than  what  the  pump  outputs,  the  sump  will  run  dry  eventually,  irrespective  of  the  volume  of  the  sump.
 
 The  diagram  shows  an  external  pump,  which  makes  access  inside  the  blue  chamber  a  non  issue.  Although,  your  point  about  mulm  is  very  relevant  Smile
 
 @rskelkar,  are  you  planning  on  returning  the  water  from  the  sump  via  a  surgemaker?  This  may  not  work  out  because,  if  as  Murthy  said,  you  have  a  high  volume  pump,  the  siphon  inside  the  surgemaker  will  have  to  be  rather  large,  which  will  cause  problems  with  maintaining  the  siphon.
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rskelkar
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: Explaination Reply with quote

 Dear  Murthy  and  Rahul,
 I  need  a  sump  of  300  lit  capacity.  I  might  have  to  kick  in  another  tray  in  cascade.  This  is  to  guard  against  any  mishap  and  all  the  pumps  fail.  Someone  has  warned  me  of  Murphy's.  My  surge  is  250  lits.  The  issue  of  mulm/sludge  is  a  real  one.  I  might  have  to  tackle  the  problem  in  few  years.  May  be  I  will  change  the  crates  at  that  time.  I  am  only  worried  about  the  live  bio-balls.  I  do  not  want  to  disturb  the  setup  once  the  corals  start  showing  up.  I  can  not  cycle  the  newly  changed  trays  again  without  disturbing  the  corals  after  couple  of  years.  What  to  do?  Can  I  have  two  Wet&  Dry  Filters  in  parallel?  May  be  of  half  capacity.  In  the  event,  if  I  remove  one  the  second  one  is  still  functional.  May  be  the  animal  is  working  on  one  kidney  rather  than  two.
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shishirkamat
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:57 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Mr  Kelkar,
 Your  plan  for  wet  dry  Filter  looks  good,Since  it  is  a  DIY  filter  i  feel  the  cost  of  Nilkamal  plastic  setup  is  high,I  think  neatly  designed  glass  tank  would  be  more  economical,You  can  also  have  a  clear  vision  on  how  your  setup  is  operating  in  terms  of  water  flow,Mulm  deposits  etc
 With  Regards
 Shishir  Kamat
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: Is visiblity that important? Reply with quote

 Is  visibility  that  important?  I  really  do  not  have  any  experience.  In  any  case  except  one  all  the  crates  can  be  inspected.  Cost  was  not  really  a  consideration.  Anyway  the  Nilkamal  crates  are  very  cheap.  All  the  trays  and  the  lids  have  costed  me  only  Rs.  2257/-.  It  was  simplicity  and  ease  of  putting  together  that  was  up  my  mind  while  thinking  about  this  design.  Secondly  I  have  another  constraint.  I  can  not  put  in  longish  Wet  &  Dry  under  my  cabinet  below  the  display  tank.  I  will  have  to  put  it  in  pieces  and  assemble  it  under  the  cabinet.  It  will  be  very  difficult  to  assemble  a  gass  wet  &  dry  under  the  cabinet  in  situ.
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Bansal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject: Nitrification. Reply with quote

 Dear  Mr  Kelkar,
 Building  a  DIY  filter  is  fun  and  satisfaction  but  the  concepts  of  filteration  in  each  stage  is  important.  You  need  to  choose  the  filteration  material  properly.  I  can  see  in  your  sketch  that    you  are  using  fewt  rays  and  filteration  material.  
 
 Design  the  trays  in  such  a  way  that  trickling  takes  place  evenly    to  keep  the  biological  life  alive  in  the  filter.  Trickling  trays  should  be  many  than  using  few.  Using  deeper  layers  of  bioballs  or  few  trays  may  create  anerobic  patches.  Using  more  trays  if  will  atleast  keep  the  lower  trays  aerobic.  
 
 The  First  layer  should  be  mechinical  filteration  where  you  capture  the  thicker  debris.  Following  trays  second/third/fourth...  Biological  filteration.
 Instead  of  bio  balls  you  can  use  ceramic  rings.  
 There  are  two  of  rings  porous  and  non  porous.  Use  non  porous  in  the  first  tray  to  spread  water  evenly  and  then  use  porous  for  biological  filteration
 Finally  use  the  last  tray  for  Chemicial  filteration.
 
 With  biological  filteration  in  aerobic  condition  you  will  eliminate  NH3  and  NO2.  you  need  to  creat  a  anerobic  filter  using  sand  at  the  bottom  most  tray  for  eleminating  No3.
 
 Vision  is  important  so  you  can  monitor  the  filter  as  you  mentioned  you  do  not  want  to  disturb  the  bioballs.  Just  in  case  when  it  starts  to  get  anerobic  without  vision,  cleaning  will  be  difficult  and  you  will  loose  the  effeciency  of  the  biological  filter.
 
 Further  you  can  also  add  a  U.V.  sterlizer  or  Ozoneiser  at  the  start  of  this  filter  or  use  it  independly.  It  is  not  seen  in  your  sketch.
 I  would  love  to  see  a  more  detailed  sketch.
 
 I  feel  that  you  should  ventilated  the  filteration  cabinet  area  properly.  Moisture  is  going  to  be  a  serious  problem  form  marine  water.  You  can  Varnish  the  entire    area  where  you  intend  to  keep  this  filter.  
 All  the  best  for  your  edventurous  experience.
 Reguards,
 Bansal
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
retro_gk  wrote:                
Murthy,  the  flowrate  of  the  pump  is  more  or  less  irrelevant  to  the  size  of  the  sump.  Assuming  an  overflow  is  used,  the  total  volume  being  pumped  up  will  flow  down  to  the  filter.  If  the  flow  out  of  the  tank  and  down  to  the  sump  is  less  than  what  the  pump  outputs,  the  sump  will  run  dry  eventually,  irrespective  of  the  volume  of  the  sump                

 
 @Rahul...thats  what  even  I  assumed,Rahul,until  I  fixed  my  own  over  flow  filter  for  my  frontosa  ply  tank.Its  not  as  simple  as  INPUT=OUTPUT.While  it  is  true(in=out),there  are  a  lot  of  factors  in  between.
 
 1.Higher  out  put  pump  will  cause  a  greater  head  height  in  the  display  tank(meaning  sump  has  to  have  more  water  to  supply  this"head"  over  and  above  the  out  let)
 
 2.Filter  media  is  a  source  of  resistance  to  water  flow(and  old  media  even  more  resistance)sosump  has  to  be  abundant  to  make  up  for  lag  in  water  supply  to  pump.
       The  above  2  factors  are  for  a  simplified  overflow  type  of  filter(and  I  feel  so  inadequate  at  trying  to  make  my  point  understood)so,as  far  as  Mr.Kelkar's  set  up  goes,its  more  complicated  due  the  surge  added  in  between.What  I  am  trying  to  say  has  to  be  demonstrated  practically.Words  fail  me.  Sad
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rskelkar
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: Change in setup Reply with quote

 Due  to  the  timely  input  from  Madan  I  have  changed  my  basic  setup.  The  filters  will  not  kick  in  the  surge  setup.  The  surge  will  be  independent.  The  filters  will  have  their  own  pumps  and  will  drink  from  from  the  display  tank  and  empty  into  the  display  tank.  Hence  the  wet  &  dry  will  be  an  independant  circuit.  Now  I  need  to  finalize  on  my  wet  and  dry  design  independant  of  anything  else.  I  do  not  want  to  add  mechanical  filters  and  chemical  filters  in  the  circuit.  It  will  be  wet  &  dry  pure  and  simple.  It  will  only  be  biological  filter.  I  can  always  buy  one  offered  by  Eheim.  But  the  pleasure  lies  in  designing  one  and  making  it  functional.
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:17 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
murthy  wrote:                

 @Rahul...thats  what  even  I  assumed,Rahul,until  I  fixed  my  own  over  flow  filter  for  my  frontosa  ply  tank.Its  not  as  simple  as  INPUT=OUTPUT.While  it  is  true(in=out),there  are  a  lot  of  factors  in  between.
 
 1.Higher  out  put  pump  will  cause  a  greater  head  height  in  the  display  tank(meaning  sump  has  to  have  more  water  to  supply  this"head"  over  and  above  the  out  let)                  

 
 This  is  easily  overcome  by  ensuring  the  capacity  of  the  overflow  is  greater  than  the  flowrate  of  the  pump...
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
2.Filter  media  is  a  source  of  resistance  to  water  flow(and  old  media  even  more  resistance)sosump  has  to  be  abundant  to  make  up  for  lag  in  water  supply  to  pump.                

 
 THis  is  what  I  meant  when  I  said  the  sump  will  run  dry  irrespective  of  volume  if  the  flow  in  is  less  than  flow  out.  The  solution  is  to  make  sure  there  is  adequate  flow  in,  not  increasing  volume.
 
 Mr.  Kelkar,  the  simplest  soultion  to  your  bioball  dilemma  is  to  rinse  out  about  half  the  bioballs  everytime  you  clean  the  filter.  The  bacteria  in  the  remaining  bioballs  will  recolonise  the  medium  in  a  very  short  period  of  time.
 
 Re  the  sump  overflowing,  if  the  outlets  (overflows)  are  positioned  correctly,  flow  out  of  the  tank  will  cease  as  soon  as  the  pump  is  turned  off  and  there  will  be  no  mishaps.


Last edited by retro_gk on Sun May 07, 2006 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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AQUALIFE
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 U  should  have  atleast  4  trays  for  the  triclke  filter  .  Each  tray  should  hold  different  medias  .    AZOO  has    about  three  different  types  of  medias  for  trickle  filter  apart  from  bioballs  .  Go  for  them  .
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