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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Fishless Cycling
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Fishless Cycling
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 @mozart,
 
                                                 
Quote:                
but  atleast  the  stuff  dying  on  the  LR  will  produce  NH3  rite????i  mean  when  the  LR  is  newly  introduced  into  the  tank...sum  of  the  live  organisms  on  it  are  bound  to  die  rite??                

 right!  right  and  a  big  RIGHT!
 But,  the  fundamental  question  is  where  does  ammonia  come  in  if  hits  does  not  have  a  single  LR  Confused
 @murthy,
 
                                                 
Quote:                
New  live  rock  does  produce  ammonia.And  will  continue  to  do  so  until  denitrifying  bacteria  colonise  it(or  start  functioning  full  time).Until  then,LR  is  a  vey  good  choice  of  fishless  cycling.  
 (infact  even  established  LR  produces  small  amounts  of  ammonia  when  shifted  to  another  tank...practically  tested)                
 
 agreed,  but  we  can  easily  rule  out  the  possibility  as  there  are  no  LR  involved!
 Actually,  LR  does  not  produce  ammonia  -  it  produces  organic  waste  like  any  live  matter!  Moreover  when  LR's  use  is  mentioned  for  aquarium  purpose  it  is  to  be  taken  for  granted  that  it  is  cured!  -  uncured  LR  'never'  goes  in  the  tank  directly!
 
                                                 
Quote:                
If  you  want  to  take  fishless  cycling  to  highest  heights,There  is  a  method  described  by  waterlife(using  their  products,ofcourse)---->biomature  and  bacterlife.Biomature  must  be  some  kind  of  ammonia-something  mix,and  bacterlife  is  starter  culture.Details  available  on  the  product  packing.                

 Yes  did  it  once  but,  is  expensive!
 @hits,
 wait  for  a  couple  of  days  more  and  see  if  there  is  a  rise  in  the  nitrites  or  does  it  slowly  reduce?  A  reduction  will  confirm  that  the  cycling  has  begun.
 But,  with  what  Confused
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hitster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: ycle Reply with quote

 correct  me  if  wrng....if  one  sets  up  a  sw  tank....and  does  nothing  about  the  cycle...with  or  without  fish...am  sure  that  water  will  eventually  also  produce  its  own  cycle  as  there  are  many  organisms  in  the  atmoshphere  who  enter  the  water  unless  my  tank  has  air  tight  cover...this  will  decompose  and  produce  NH3  which  would  colonise  the  bacterium  responsible  to  produce  the  nitrite  and  nitrates  eventually...
 
 what  say?
 
 so  if  i  do  not  do  anything  then  the  process  will  be  slow  but  happen.
 
 anyways...an  update...
 
 i  brought  down  the  salinity  of  water  from  1.021  to  1.019....and  just  introduced  a  black  molly  after  training  it  to  do  the  sw  right....
 it  is  doing  well...swimming  around  nice  and  slow...it  panicked  only  for  a  few  seconds  and  then  stabilised...cant  see  a  smile  on  its  face  but  i  can  sense  it  is  okay...
 
 now  question...will  she  able  to  help  me  cycle  the  tank...if  yes,  how  many  days  ?  if  no....why?
 
 btw  my  ph  is  7.8  how  do  i  get  it  to  8?
 
 aquascapes...u  help  a  lot...thanks
 
 hits
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
correct  me  if  wrng....if  one  sets  up  a  sw  tank....and  does  nothing  about  the  cycle...with  or  without  fish...am  sure  that  water  will  eventually  also  produce  its  own  cycle  as  there  are  many  organisms  in  the  atmoshphere  who  enter  the  water  unless  my  tank  has  air  tight  cover...this  will  decompose  and  produce  NH3  which  would  colonise  the  bacterium  responsible  to  produce  the  nitrite  and  nitrates  eventually...                  

 Sir,  technically  it  sounds  good.  But,  will  take  forever  to  cycle  your  tank  like  this!
 
                                                 
Quote:                
now  question...will  she  able  to  help  me  cycle  the  tank...if  yes,  how  many  days  ?  if  no....why?                
 
 Actually  the  molly  will  be  dead  in  a  couple  of  days  which  can  then  be  used  for  cycling  Crying or Very sad  
 The  MP  (market  prawn)  will  be  more  appreciable!
 (sorry  buddy,  the  molly  cannot  be  used  for  cycling  a  marine  -  even  a  mono  angle  or  scat  would  not  tolerate  SW  for  extended  periods)
 
                                                 
Quote:                
btw  my  ph  is  7.8  how  do  i  get  it  to  8?                  

 I  don't  understand  why  this  should  happen  -  I  think  you  went  seriously  wrong  with  the  salt  mix  -  don't  worry  take  the  molly  out  of  the  tank  and  wait  for  a  couple  of  days  and  then  check  your  water  (co²  can  also  be  responsible  for  low  pH  -  one  reason  why  people  use  co²  for  calcium  reactors  but  if  you  have  good  water  movement  in  the  tank  you  can  rule  out  the  possibility  as  well!  )  please  also  reconsider  checking  your  test  kits  as  murthy  suggests!
 BTW  what  is  the  temp  of  your  water?
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hitster
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: parameters Reply with quote

 i  will  list  out  my  tank  parameters  as  of  now  -
 
 PH  Using  the  Azoo  PH  Kit  Once  i  put  reagent  the  color  is  between  green  and  dark  green  (green  =  7.5    dark  green  =  Cool  so  i  guess  this  is  also  guessing  rather  than  accuracy
 Temp  29  -  30  C  (  Reading  from  Digi  Thermometer  -  Less  Accurate)
 Sp  Gravity  ~  1.020  
 
 i  will  get  a  pack  of  frozen  prawn...Catch  hole  of  2  prawns  and  boil  them  then  put  them  in  the  net  and  floa  them  in  my  tank...Correct  me  in  procedure  if  am  wrong
 
 I  put  on  the  AC  in  nights...(thats  the  max  currently  i  could  do)
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hitster
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: Prawn ?!? Reply with quote

 I  searched  for  a  dead  prawn  /  frozen  prawn  from  chembur  station  to  chembur  camp  to  kurla...damn...i  guess  meri  tank  ke  kismat  main  cycle  chalana  nahi  likha  Smile
 
 hits
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 All  this  time  I  was  thinking  you  had  21kg  of  LR,  so  I  went  back  and  reread  your  other  thread.
 You  bought  21kgs  of  Base  Rock?  and  absolutely  no  LR  at  all?  Why?
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hitster
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: ok Reply with quote

 ummm..
 
 i  wanted  to  start  off  with  FO  (thats  what  most  guys  including  nautilius)  suggested,,since  m  a  fresher  in  salty.
 
 then  will  upgrade  to  LR  and  perhaps  an  anemone  (when  my  tank  stabalises).
 
 U  think  its  a  bad  idea?  u  anyways  are  seeing  i  am  not  yet  into  the  cyclin  and  already  confused...thanks  to  aquascapes  and  my  dear  apurva  &  aqualife  and  a  few  other  buddies  that  i  am  now  getting  on  the  track...
 
 So  once  again  clearing  my  tank  statistics  so  that  u  do  not  have  to  go  back  and  read  the  thread  again,  this  is  the  latest
 
 i  have  tank  with  diemnsion  42x12x15  inches  =  32.73  G  
 avg  2  inch  of  crushed  coral  gravel  (~  15kgs)  which  has  been  layed  over  the  5  trays  of  UG  filter.  The  trays  covered  with  mesh  net  and  then  the  gravel  poured.  
 A  mistake  which  i  did  was  to  fill  water  immediately  (tap  water)  after  gravel  (2  inch  below  the  top  of  tank)  and  then  mixed  the  salt  with  ug  (powered  with  azoo  powerhead  1800)  on...as  per  many  i  shud  have  premixed  the  salt...but  it  is  vv  impractical  at  my  place  to  do  so...i  will  keep  in  mind  for  next  time  though.
 Then  did  aquascapingg  with  21kgs  base  rock...(havent  done  a  v  good  job  here  i  guess)
   have  connected  the  canister  (atman  ef-2)  which  has  capacity  for  40G  water.  I  have  recently  (just  connected)  the  protein  skimmer  (Orca)  for  which  i  am  yet  to  buy  the  air  pump  (suggest  me  a  good  one).
 I  would  also  need  the  connection  diagram  of  the  skimmer.
 Now  that  i  have  explained  all  that  i  got  in  detail,  please  suggest  that  if  i  may  have  left  out  anything  which  doesnt  deserve  to  be  left  out...i  will  consider  purchasing  that  too.
 As  far  as  cycling  goes  ,  i  will  purchase  the  dead  guys  (prawns)  and  poke  2  guys  in  boiling  water  for  a  minute  and  then  net  them  in  my  tank...Suggest  for  how  many  days/?  Then  i  guess  after  adding  the  dead  guy  i  will  add  the  11in  1  super  bacteria  (azoo)  +  PSB  azoo  to  hasten  up  the  decomposition  on  the  dead  guys  and  ultimately  the  cycle...Suggest  the  lead  time...
 
 Test  Kits  -  i  just  have  PH  test  kit  from  Azoo  (  i  take  5  ml  of  tank  water  and  add  5  drops  of  the  azoo  reagent)  and  test  results  between  the  color  bands  green  to  dark  green  7.5-8
 NO2  -  Azoo  (5  ml  test  water  +  spoon  of  reagent)  =  currently  v  light  pink  =  0.1  NO2  traces.
   Lighting  =  2  Ft  Hitachi  20W  tube  light.  Suggest  me  something  which  i  need  to  support  few  LR  =  an  anemone  for  later  (wanna  be  prepared)
 
 Finally,  Nemo  +  Dory  are  musts  for  my  tank  (though  Dory  i  will  add  quite  late  when  my  tank  is  stable)  Suggest  max  fishes  with  sizes  and  names...My  criterion  is  vibrant  colors  (no  blacks  and  whites  =  thats  the  reason  i  quit  FW  tank)  i  am  here  to  have  vibrant  red  /  orange  /  yellows  and  blues
   Also  suggest  me  what  other  hardy  specimens  can  i  add...eg  crab?!!  some  guys  who  look  mysterious...jisko  dekhke  aankhein  dang  reh  jaye...(but  not  the  sensitive  kinds  for  the  start)
 
 Woah...me  wrote  a  Lot...Aquascapes  Ji,  i  expect  your  reply  the  first  and  in  the  way  u  gave  me  reply  in  your  PM...Step  by  Step  :-)
 
 U  have  helped  me  indeed  ...Thanks  Aqaulife  buddy  and  Apurva  whassup  u  dont  write  anymmore?  busy  kya?
 Awaiting...
 Everyone  write  to  me...Keep  it  simple
 
 Hits
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Madan
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:48 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hits,
 
 No  Hindi  here  Please!
 
 Read  the  Forum  Guidelines  again.
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hitster
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: Hi Reply with quote

 @  Madan
 
 Sorry  abou  that!
 
 Guys  ,  am  anxiously  waiting  for  your  detailed  reply.
 
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
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I  would  also  need  the  connection  diagram  of  the  skimmer.                  

 
 
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guruvaidya
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:29 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 thanks  a  lot    for  that  diagram  aquascapes    ....  hitster  u  remind  me  of  my  cycling  days  when  i  was  startin  off  ....even  i  had  purchased  my  tank  and  supplies  from  nautilus  ..as  if  the  one  month  wait  for  cycling  was  not  enough  i  had  to  wait  for  another  month  since  my  undergravel  filter  was  not  ready..although  after  reading  through  some  of  rajeevs  threads  i  dont  think  the  UG  filteration  was  a  good  idea  ....mines  a  48  x  18  x24  tank  ...
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hitster
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: cycling with damsel Reply with quote

 guys,
 
 from  the  fishless  cycling  ,  i  got  into  cycling  attempt  by  molly  which  i  discarded  in  between,  then  i  leapt  to  dead  prawn,  in  midway  i  introduced  the  damsel  to  cycle  my  tank.
 apurva,  i  removed  the  domino  and  gave  it  it  to  a  frnd  as  it  was  way  to  territorial  and  was  messing  up  with  the  blue  devil,  blue  devil  is  doing  just  gr8.
 i  am  now  waiting  for  the  false  percula  after  which  i  will  take  a  pause  for  some  days  and  perhaps  introduce  another  fishie  followed  by  anemone  for  my  to  be  clown....thats  about  it...
 
 hits
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ravi
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: Re: parameters Reply with quote

                                                   
hitster  wrote:                
i  will  get  a  pack  of  frozen  prawn...Catch  hole  of  2  prawns  and  boil  them  then  put  them  in  the  net  and  float  them  in  my  tank                

 
 Boil  them  ?  Is  this  the  correct  procedure  ?  
 
 I  think  boiling  is  counter  productive.  The  very  reason  for  introducing  dead  prawns  is  to  induce  "proper"  bacteria  into  the  aqua  system.  Fresh  prawns  may  be  better  than  frozen  prawns.  Recommended  way  to  introduce  dead  prawns  for  cycling  the  tank  is  to  insert  one  end  of  a  thin,  long  stick  into  the  prawn  &  then  insert  the  other  end  of  the  stick  into  the  gravel  bed,  such  that  there's  plenty  of  water  circulation  around  the  prawn.  Then,  wait  for  the  prawn  to  disintegrate  totally.
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hitster
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: @ Ravi Reply with quote

 Hi
 
 Boiling  helps  to  get  the  prawn  free  from  the  bad  bacteria  ...  and  also  helps  faster  decomposition...  Boiled  stuff  decomposes  faster  and  the  fact  that  it  decomposes  means  the  bacteria  is  on  the  job.
 
 PS  -  There  are  no  prawnies  in  my  tank  to  cycle  it  anymore...  I  got  blue  devil  to  cycle  my  tank  off  :-)
 
 hits
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fishluck
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Joined: May 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:51 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 hitster,
 btw  are  u  testing  your  ammonia  levels?  how  will  you  know  when  the  cycle  started?
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