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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Poor man's reef
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Poor man's reef
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 The  two  stories  look  like  a  reef  urban  legend  to  me.  I  serached  for  palytoxins  and  zooanthids  together  and  apart  from  the  guy  and  the  dog  there  are  no  other  references  to  sickness/deaths.  Apparently  these  two  stories  are  the  only  ones.
 
 Also  if  there  are  fatalities  due  to  zoos  and  the  concentration  in  aquariums  was  lethal,  
 1.zooanthids  wouldn't  be  sold  or
 2.there  would  be  a  lot  of  dead  reefers
 
 BUT  and  this  is  a  biggie,
 All  zooanthids  DO  have  palytoxins.
 Handling  zooanthids  with  bare  hands  especially  with  cuts  on  your  hands  will  at  least  give  you  a  bad  infection/allergy/reaction.
 Handling  anything  at  all  with  bare  hands  is  a  bad  idea.
 USE  GLOVES
 

 
 I  am  sure  eveyone  would  follow  precautions  if  they  had  a  shark/piranha/stonefish/lionfish.  Same  thing  here,  take  some  precautions  to  keep  you  safe.
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Also  if  there  are  fatalities  due  to  zoos  and  the  concentration  in  aquariums  was  lethal,  
 1.zooanthids  wouldn't  be  sold  or  
 2.there  would  be  a  lot  of  dead  reefers                  

 It  is  just  a  note  of  caution  -  Not  a  warning  bell!
 What  I  mean  is  as  new  and  new  people  are  exposed  to  the  reef  hobby  -  a  proper  pre-caution  and  respect  for  it's  inhabitants  should  be  considered  before  going  out  and  purchasing  the  inverts  and  than  ending  up  with  a  dead  pet  or  a  paralized  limb!
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cokeamod
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Drool  Whew!
 Lots  of  great  information  in  this  topic!!  Took  me  almost  half  an  hour  to  go  through  the  entire  thing!!  Thanks  nauzer,  nytyn,  apurva  and  all  others!
 Regards,
 amod.
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murthy
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:12 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
retro_gk  wrote:                

 However,  I'll  say  once  again  something  I've  said  umpteen  times...  you  live  in  the  tropics,  take  advantage  of  it.  Place  the  tank  where  it  gets  sunlight,  get  rid  of  whatever  lights  you  have  on  it  and  make  use  of  evaporative  cooling.  Trust  me,  it's  as  cheap  as  it  gets.                

 
 I've  taken  my  time  to  digest  this  thread.Now  seriously  planning  to  give  this  a  go.
 @Rahul...have  you  seen  this  working  anywhere?what  animals  were  in  such  a  tank(sun  exposed)
 I  have  a  5x2x2foot  tank,with  a  window  at  one  end  of  the  tank(two  hours  of  direct  sunrise  light...7:00am  to  9:00am.Indirect  sunlight  for  most  of  the  day)
 
 @aquascapes....considering  the  above  location
 
 1.What  kind  of  lighting  should  I  go  in  for?I  want  to  keep  the  easiest,hardiest  of  button  polyps,sea  mats.I  dont  want  to  use  metal  halides  for  its  heat.(and  electricity  consumption).....so  what  are  the  options  in  power  compact/fluorescent  lights?(for  instance,what  does  azoo  offer?)
 
 2.I  have  upgraded  to  a  viaAqua  in-sump  protein  skimmer,graded  for  150g  is  that  good(for  a  5x2x2,120  g)?(hope  my  calculation  is  right!)..I  also  have  the  older  weipro  venturi  80g(?)shall  I  throw  this  skimmer  into  action  too?
 
 3.Most  forum/internet  as  well  as  book  sources  have  led  me  to  believe  wet/dry  trickle  filters  are  merely  nitrate  factories,and  should  be  done  away  with  (keeping  skimming  at  a  max).So  I  plan  on  not  having  ANY  biological  filtration(other  than  live  rock  i.e.)Correct  me  please!
 
 4.The  tank  will  be  with  live  rock.How  much  is  ideal?(is  more  the  merrier?)again,if  live  rock  is  to  be  kept(lets  assume  I'm  not  interested  in  coralline  algae,but  only  in  denitrifying  bacteria)..if  live  rock  is  to  be  kept,do  I  need  heavy  lighting?....otherwise  the  tank  is  bare  bottom.I  also  would  like  to  keep  the  LR  slightly  elevated  off  the  bottom.How?where  do  we  get  "egg  crate"  or  its  equivalent?Plan  to  have  a  powerhead  aiming  flow  under  the  LR.
 
 5.If  you  were  setting  up  this  tank  for  yourself,how  many  power  heads  would  you  run  in  it  for  circulation(with  the  zoanthids  and  all)I  dont  have  a  wave  maker.Is  this  essential  for  easiest  zoanthids?
 
 6.What  on  earth  is  a  turkey  baster???  Very Happy  I  have  access  to  waterlife's  "invertfood"(reliably  supplied)(does  azoo  also  offer  any  such  feeds?)
 
 7.What  additives  do  I  need  to  stock?(again  what  does  azoo  stock?)I  prefer  to  stick  to  one  easily  available  brand.
 
 8.After  all  these  criteria  are  met(hopefully)where  can  I  source  the  animals(Shankar?are  you  there?  Very Happy    )what  are  the  different"morphs"(?)  available  to  the  indian  hobbyist?
 
 9.I  want  to  also  keep  shrimp....are  the  cleaner  and  blood  shrimps  available?are  they  reasonable  to  care  for?suggestions  for  compatible  fish  also  requested!
 
 Oh  oh!  looong  post.But  im  going  to  take  a  dive  into  lower  end  reef  keeping....so  help  me!Thanks  for  any  help.
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
I've  taken  my  time  to  digest  this  thread                

 Dont  tell  me  it  is  that  bad  Sad    Crying or Very sad  
 
                                                 
Quote:                
1.What  kind  of  lighting  should  I  go  in  for?I  want  to  keep  the  easiest,hardiest  of  button  polyps,sea  mats.I  dont  want  to  use  metal  halides  for  its  heat.(and  electricity  consumption).....so  what  are  the  options  in  power  compact/fluorescent  lights?(for  instance,what  does  azoo  offer?)                  

 Does  the  window  ensure  top  lighting  or  light  entering  from  the  sides?
 corals/soft  corals/mushrooms/zoanthids  etc.  prefer  light  from  the  top  but,  if  you  say  the  sunlight  is  only  the  rising  rays  I  think  it  might  not  be  harmful  to  the  tank.  But,  the  kind  of  height  you  have  is  a  bit  difficult  for  a  Pl/Cfl/tube  to  penetrate  deep  down  to  the  bottom  of  the  tank  so  if  MH  is  to  be  ruled  out  I'd  suggest  a  good  bottom  layer  of  base  rocks  which  can  elevate  your  inverts  to  a  well  lit  zone!
 as  for  what  azoo  offers  -  well,  a  very  good  range  of  lighting  including  MH!
 azoo  hi-pl  lights
 From  the  above  range  of  hi-pls  I  use  the  36W  (super  tube)  which  has  an  output  of  10000K
 another  very  good  azoo  light  is  the  coral  blue  tubelight  which  you  can  see  in  this  link
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
2.I  have  upgraded  to  a  viaAqua  in-sump  protein  skimmer,graded  for  150g  is  that  good(for  a  5x2x2,120  g)?(hope  my  calculation  is  right!)..I  also  have  the  older  weipro  venturi  80g(?)shall  I  throw  this  skimmer  into  action  too?                  

 I've  always  believed  that  too  much  skimming  is  not  very  healthy  for  thy  pockets!  Yes  you  tend  to  loose  a  lot  of  trace  elements  along  with  the  raw  proteins  so  dosing  the  tank  with  additives  will  be  an  expensive  affair!
 stick  to  the  in-sump  skimmer  and  donate  the  weipro  venturi  skimmer    Chuckle  
 
                                                 
Quote:                
3.Most  forum/internet  as  well  as  book  sources  have  led  me  to  believe  wet/dry  trickle  filters  are  merely  nitrate  factories,and  should  be  done  away  with  (keeping  skimming  at  a  max).So  I  plan  on  not  having  ANY  biological  filtration(other  than  live  rock  i.e.)Correct  me  please!                  

 Sir,  this  is  where  I'd  beg  to  suggest  a  refugium    Thumb Up  
 I  have  known  many  a  hobbyists  who  even  without  a  wet/dry  or  trickle  filters  have  a  reasonably  high  nitrate!
 IMO  it  will  be  criminal  to  just  blame  the  poor  bio-filters  for  the  nitrate  readings  -  yes  live  rocks  will  solve  the  problem  to  a  certain  extend  but,  macro  algae  will  actually  benefit  from  the  nitrates  and  will  flourish  which  in  turn  will  give  you  free  food  for  your  veggie  fish!  (Nothing  goes  waste!)
   (more  tomorrow)
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 cont...
 
                                                 
Quote:                
4.The  tank  will  be  with  live  rock.How  much  is  ideal?(is  more  the  merrier?)again,if  live  rock  is  to  be  kept(lets  assume  I'm  not  interested  in  coralline  algae,but  only  in  denitrifying  bacteria)..if  live  rock  is  to  be  kept,do  I  need  heavy  lighting?....otherwise  the  tank  is  bare  bottom.I  also  would  like  to  keep  the  LR  slightly  elevated  off  the  bottom.How?where  do  we  get  "egg  crate"  or  its  equivalent?Plan  to  have  a  powerhead  aiming  flow  under  the  LR.                

 No  sir,  more  is  not  always  merrier!
 'Live  rock'  as  the  name  suggests  is  a  coloney  of  live  micro  and  macro  organisms  and  can  also  produce  organic  waste  (it  is  one  reason  why  LR  is  recommended  for  fishless  cycling)  I  would  strongly  recommend  you  to  have  a  bottom  layer  of  base  rocks  since  you  are  not  going  in  for  MH.  Frankly  speaking  I  have  never  weighed  my  LR!  I  would  suggest  to  keep  an  eye  on  stuff  available  and  find  something  interesting  that  can  suit  your  tank's  aquascape  since  you  want  a  BB  tank  this  is  a  very  important  issue  to  interlock  the  rocks  for  a  stable  reef  structure!  I  would  not  use  an  egg  crate  if  I  were  you!  Instead  lookout  for  some  stable  base  rocks  as  the  support  for  your  reef  structure  -  it  is  good  to  have  a  stable  base  for  a  reef  as  the  structure  has  to  withstand  strong  water  currents!
 As  for  the  coralline  I  had  the  same  opinion  which  changed  soon!
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
5.If  you  were  setting  up  this  tank  for  yourself,how  many  power  heads  would  you  run  in  it  for  circulation(with  the  zoanthids  and  all)I  dont  have  a  wave  maker.Is  this  essential  for  easiest  zoanthids?                  

 I  would  beg  to  suggest  a  sump  here    Very Happy  
 From  my  experience  of  DIY  and  low  tech  gadgetary  I  can  tell  you  that  a  sump  can  really  work  out  to  be  a  blessing  for  a  reef!
 back  to  the  question......One  power  head  on  either  sides  should  do  the  trick  very  well!
 I'm  using  a  very  good  wavemaker  which  is  dirtcheap!  it  is  from  atman  (china)  and  can  be  attached  to  the  nozzle  of  the  power  head  -  the  force  of  the  water  propells  the  gears  inside  and  the  tip  starts  rotating!  -  brilliant  engineering!
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
6.What  on  earth  is  a  turkey  baster???    I  have  access  to  waterlife's  "invertfood"(reliably  supplied)(does  azoo  also  offer  any  such  feeds?)                  

 turkey  baster  is  used  to  target  feed  corals  and  inverts  -  you  could  effectively  use  a  syringe  for  the  purpose!
 No  azoo  presently  only  has  jellyfish  liquid  feed  which  I  add  to  my  reciepy  of  invert  food  -  I  see  no  harm  in  using  waterlife  products  as  the  company  is  quite  reliable  and  has  a  long  product  line  of  fantastic  products  -  disadvantage  though  is  easy  availability  (which  can  be  ruled  out  in  your  case)  and  the  price  tag!
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
7.What  additives  do  I  need  to  stock?(again  what  does  azoo  stock?)I  prefer  to  stick  to  one  easily  available  brand.                

 Yes  no  let  me  shout  it  out  'YES'
 all  the  basic  additives  along  with  trace  elements  etc.  is  easily  and  readily  available  at  'Aquascapes'    Very Happy  (along  with  an  iah  discount!)
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
8.After  all  these  criteria  are  met(hopefully)where  can  I  source  the  animals(Shankar?are  you  there?    )what  are  the  different"morphs"(?)  available  to  the  indian  hobbyist?                  

 So  be  it!  I  leave  this  to  my  dear  friend  Shankar!
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
9.I  want  to  also  keep  shrimp....are  the  cleaner  and  blood  shrimps  available?are  they  reasonable  to  care  for?suggestions  for  compatible  fish  also  requested!                  

 keep  this  for  later!  Not  in  the  initial  phase.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Oh  oh!  looong  post.But  im  going  to  take  a  dive  into  lower  end  reef  keeping....so  help  me!Thanks  for  any  help.                

 I  hope  this  solves  atleast  some  of  your  queries!
 Your  friendly  neighbourhood,
 Nauzer
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Nauzer,
 Can  you  give  me  more  details  about  the  Atman  wavemaker.  Is  it  anything  like  the  SCWD  and  if  you  can,  please  pm  me  the  pricing?
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Man  my  brain  was  dead  when  this  thread  already  entered  page3  and  page5  now  and  never  really  dared  to  run  against  time.  Lucky  that  i  could  date  this  evening  with  IAH.  A  loooong  but  useful  thread  indeed!  
 
 @Aquascapes,  most  of  the  indian  reefers  in  some  way  actually  maintain  a  Poor  man's  reef,  as  you  say.  Budgetory  constraints  apart,  unavailability  of  the  hardware  leads  to  either  compromise  without  making  use  of  it  or  DIY,  which  obviously  is  cheaper  in  anyway.  All  that  matters  is  how  well  the  reef  mates  survive  in  captivity.
 
 @Ravindranak,
 
 Mandarin  Dragonets  still  do  live  in  the  Indian  ocean.  But  the  ocean  is  very  very  vast,  considering  the  reach.  I  haven't  really  seen  any  in  our  waters.
 A  few  fish  that  i  have  come  across  in  our  waters  are:
 
 Angels  -  Koran,  Blue  Ring,  Smoked,  Six  Bar  and  Emperor.
 
 Butterflies  -  True  Vagabond,  False  Vagabond,  Pakistani,  Yellow  head,  Melon,  Meyer's,  Auriga,  Eight  Banded,  Pearlscale,  Chevroned,  Racoon,  Diagonal  Lined,  Coral,  Double  Saddled,  Black  Back  and  Bennett's.
 
 Clowns  -  Sebae  and  Clarkii.
 
 Damsels  -  Domino,  Sgt  Major,  Yellow  Tail  Blues,  3stripe  Humbug,  Yellowtail  Chromis,  Lyretail  Chromis,  Green  Chromis  and  Cocoa.
 
 Blennies  and  Gobies  -  Many  unidentified,  may  be  due  to  extensive  cross  breeding  in  the  darkness!  Sad  
 
 Basslets  /  Dottybacks  -  4  species  with  one  albino.  None  with  a  proper  ID.
 
 Scorpions  -  Volitans,  Shortfin,  dendrochirus  dwarf,  Antennata  and  Lunulata.
 
 Surgeons  /  Tangs  -  Desjardin's  Sailfin,  Powderblue,  Clown,  A.  nigroris  -  common  name??,  Spotcheek,  Convict,  rare  Hippo  (  Post  Tsunami  )  and  Short-Finned  Veliferum  -  Some  Variant??
 
 Triggers  /  Filefish  -  Clown,  Titan,  Red  Tooth,  Undulate,  Picasso,  Scrawled,  Leather  Jacket,  Slender  Variant  and  a  few  unidentifed.
 
 Wrasses  -  Lunar,  Marble,  Cleaner,  Six  Bar,  Blue  Headed,  Dusky,  Queen  Coris,  Bird  and  Five  Finger.
 
 Misc  -  Batfish,  M.  Idol,  Penant,  Box,  Cow,  Pyramid  Trunkfish,  Squirrel,  Sweetlips,  Cardinals,  Remora,  Golden  Pilotfish,  Hawkfishes  and  Frogfishes.
 
 Surely  i  would  have  missed  to  list  out  many  ones  above.
 
 Keep  Fishing!
 [/i]
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I'll  take  one  of  each  Smile
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:22 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 @Murthy,
 
 Yet  to  hear  from  you  reg.  the  sunlight  to  pH  factor.  Prove  me  wrong.  Thumb Up  
 
 @psimhan
 
 Can  have'em  all,  if  the  reef  was  like  a  supermarket.  Smile
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Shankar  wrote:                

 @psimhan
 
 Can  have'em  all,  if  the  reef  was  like  a  supermarket.  Smile                

 
 I  used  to  catch  them  as  a  kid  on  the  other  side  of  the  Indian  Ocean.  
 Now  I  have  to  pay  for  them  Sad
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
psimhan  wrote:                
Nauzer,
 Can  you  give  me  more  details  about  the  Atman  wavemaker.  Is  it  anything  like  the  SCWD  and  if  you  can,  please  pm  me  the  pricing?                

 
 It's  assembly
 
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 3:20 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Shankar  wrote:                
@Murthy,
 
 Yet  to  hear  from  you  reg.  the  sunlight  to  pH  factor.  Prove  me  wrong.  Thumb Up  
 
                 

 
 Noyhing  yet  shankar,i.e  no  difference  in  pH  due  to  sunlight(though  the  sunlight  gets  in  from  the  side,and  may  not  be  significant  enough  to  affect  the  pH).Logically,you  maybe  right...sunlight  must  cause  a  surge  in  photosynthesis,causing  a  drop  in  available  CO2,and  a  rise  in  pH.All  in  theory.....yet  to  see  it  happening!  Smile
 
 ......thanks  a  lot  Nauzer!(its  not  the  thread  that  makes  digestion  difficult.......marine  invertebrates  as  a  whole  are  a  totally  new  cuppa  tea  to  me!)
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:48 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Then  the  same  logic  should  be  applicable  with  natural  freshwater  pond  owners  too,  as  compared  to  unexposed  cement  tanks,  etc  with  the  common  water  source.  Let  me  cross-check.
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:47 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Murthy,  there  are  a  number  of  commercial  coral  propagation  units  here  in  the  US  (Florida,  California  and  Hawaii)  that  use  natural  light.
 
 Here  is  a  home  aquarist's  opinion:  http://showcase.netins.net/web/reefpage/general/naturallighting.html
 
 Here  is  a  link  to  a  setup  using  sunlight  in  New  Zealand:  http://www.seafriends.org.nz/dda/aqua1.htm
 
 While  you  are  at  the  second  site,  check  out  the  section  on  Dark  Decay  Assay  Wink
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