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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Help required for sick blackmoors
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Help required for sick blackmoors
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Caesar
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Joined: Oct 08, 2012
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Location: Raipur, CG

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 Hi  everybody,  started  a  new  small  tank  (18*12*9)  with  4  blackmoors  and  a  pleco.  No  plants,  just  gravel,  an  artificial  plant  and  a  decorative  house.  for  around  15  days  everything  was  fine;  i  was  feeding  them  pellets/  freeze  dried  worms  twice  a  day.  No  filter(  as  advised  by  my  LFS).  one  fish  develops  white  spots  and  i  start  a  frantic  search  for  a  cure  on  google;  learn  that  its  "ich".  Head  of  to  my  LFS  and  explain,  he  hands  me  a  medicine,  most  probably  malachite  green  and  rock  salt  and  explains  how  to  use  it.  i  add  medicine  and  salt  as  advised  (arnd  8  drops  of  medicine  and  two  Tbsp  of  salt  dissolved  in  water)  and  do  a  nearly  75%  water  change  (as  learned  from  IAH)  before  adding  the  medicine  and  salt.  
 
 next  day  one  fish  i  dead  and  its  not  the  one  with  spots!  Again  i  head  off  to  the  LFS  and  discuss  with  him;  this  time  he  says  that  you  need  to  raise  the  temp  of  the  water.  Meanwhile  i  went  to  a  diff  LFS  and  he  gives  me  a  diff  med  "Rid  All"  and  tells  me  this  is  better  than  the  one  i  have  and  he  also  advises  me  to  raise  the  temp.  So  now  i  again  change  50%  water,  put  "Rid  All"  and  i  get  a  heater  and  set  it  to  30  deg  C  and  wait   Sad  .  
 
   Shocked  the  fish  with  spots  is  dead  by  night!  the  other  two  fish  are  sitting  very  near  to  the  heater  but  wont  roam  around  the  tank  like  they  did.  even  when  i  add  food  only  one  of  them  comes  up  but  doesnt  eat  much.  Both  of  them  dont  have  any  spots  on  their  body  or  fins.
 
 now  i  dunno  what  to  do;  dun  wanna  lose  any  more  fish!!  so  looking  for  advice  from  you  guys!  Thanks!!
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Nidhi
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 Ceaser,
 Sorry  to  hear  your  loss..
 Don't  trust  the  LFS  entirely,  Rising  the  temp  would  have  been  sufficient  for  Ich  till  they  disappear.
 First  mistake  is  you  don't  have  a  filter  and  the  tank  is  not  yet  cycled  IMO,  what  kind  of  an  LFS  is  that  suggests  not  to  use  a  filter..  Mad  
 Second  mistake  was  to  introduce  the  fishes  with  out  cycling  the  tank.  So  get  an  filter  as  soon  as  possible,  and  get  the  nitrogen  cycle  to  start..
 Third  mistake  was  to  change  75  %  water..  may  be  the  new  water  you  changed  contained  chlorine  and  chloromine.
 If  you  do  big  water  changes  make  sure  you  use  stored  water  (stored  in  another  container  for  min  24  hrs)  or  use  water  conditioners  available  in  Good  LFS.
 Fishes  don't  die  so  quickly  due  to  ich,  so  your  water  changes  killed  them  for  sure..
 And  my  last  suggestion  is  the  tank  is  too  small  for  goldfishes  and  pleco,  so  better  get  a  bigger  tank  or  choose  some  other  fish  suitable  for  the  present  tank..  and  stop  doing  those  big  water  changes  and  medication  for  now  and  maintain  the  temp  around  29'centigrade,  do  only  25-30%  water  changes  weekly.  dont  feed  the  fish  till  they  start  to  recover  and  become  normal.
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Caesar
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Joined: Oct 08, 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

                                                   
Nidhi  wrote  (View  Post):                
Ceaser,
 Sorry  to  hear  your  loss..
 Don't  trust  the  LFS  entirely,  Rising  the  temp  would  have  been  sufficient  for  Ich  till  they  disappear.
 First  mistake  is  you  don't  have  a  filter  and  the  tank  is  not  yet  cycled  IMO,  what  kind  of  an  LFS  is  that  suggests  not  to  use  a  filter..  Mad  
 
 
 Second  mistake  was  to  introduce  the  fishes  with  out  cycling  the  tank.  So  get  an  filter  as  soon  as  possible,  and  get  the  nitrogen  cycle  to  start..
 
 Third  mistake  was  to  change  75  %  water..  may  be  the  new  water  you  changed  contained  chlorine  and  chloromine.
 If  you  do  big  water  changes  make  sure  you  use  stored  water  (stored  in  another  container  for  min  24  hrs)  or  use  water  conditioners  available  in  Good  LFS.
 Fishes  don't  die  so  quickly  due  to  ich,  so  your  water  changes  killed  them  for  sure..
 
 
 And  my  last  suggestion  is  the  tank  is  too  small  for  goldfishes  and  pleco,  so  better  get  a  bigger  tank  or  choose  some  other  fish  suitable  for  the  present  tank..  
 
 and  stop  doing  those  big  water  changes  and  medication  for  now  and  maintain  the  temp  around  29'centigrade,  do  only  25-30%  water  changes  weekly.  dont  feed  the  fish  till  they  start  to  recover  and  become  normal.
                 

 First  mistake  is  you  don't  have  a  filter  and  the  tank  is  not  yet  cycled  IMO,  what  kind  of  an  LFS  is  that  suggests  not  to  use  a  filter..  Mad  
 

 I  had  my  doubts  regarding  this  suggestion  too  and  now  having  read  through  lots  of  info  in  the  forum  i  realize  my  mistake;  BTW  which  kinda  filter  do  you  suggest  for  a  small  tank?  The  LFS  guy  said  since  its  such  a  small  tank  you  dont  require  a  filter..but  then  their  idea  of  tank  maintenance  is  to  empty  out,  clean  your  tank  and  re  assemble  it  once  a  month!!
 
 
 [color=Font  Color]Third  mistake  was  to  change  75  %  water..  may  be  the  new  water  you  changed  contained  chlorine  and  chloromine.
 If  you  do  big  water  changes  make  sure  you  use  stored  water  (stored  in  another  container  for  min  24  hrs)  or  use  water  conditioners  available  in  Good  LFS.
 Fishes  don't  die  so  quickly  due  to  ich,  so  your  water  changes  killed  the
m  for  sure..
 [/color]
 water  in  my  home  is  from  a  borewell  so  i  guess  its  safe  to  assume  that  it  might  not  have  been  the  culprit..could  the  medication  have  killed  the  fish?  I  really  doubt  the  authenticity  and  safety  of  the  first  medication  which  i  used..
 
 
 And  my  last  suggestion  is  the  tank  is  too  small  for  goldfishes  and  pleco,  so  better  get  a  bigger  tank  or  choose  some  other  fish  suitable  for  the  present  tank..  
 
 yup  i  realize  that  too  now  but  since  the  fish  are  like  2  inch  each  right  now  can  i  continue  with  them  for  now;  when  they  get  bigger  maybe  ill  just  get  a  bigger  tank  by  then..i  just  need  to  get  my  concepts  sorted  out  before  i  opt  for  a  bigger  tank..
 
 
 and  stop  doing  those  big  water  changes  and  medication  for  now  and  maintain  the  temp  around  29'centigrade,  do  only  25-30%  water  changes  weekly.  dont  feed  the  fish  till  they  start  to  recover  and  become  normal.
 
 I  have  stopped  feeding  them  (as  advised  by  LFS  also)  temp  is  at  30  deg  C,  and  i  wont  be  adding  any  more  medication  or  water  changes  for  now.  Thanx  for  the  prompt  and  detailed  reply  i  really  appreciate  it  very  much.  Fingers  crossed  and  waiting  for  the  fish  to  recover  Smile
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deepakg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 +1  Nidhi
 what  else  you  can  expect  without  a  bio  filter.  Use  anti  chlorine  liquid  while  water  change.  And  other  reason  might  be  overfeeding.  Access  food  rots  the  water  which  help  deseases  to  grow.  
 By  the  way...  whats  your  location?
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Nidhi
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 Caeser,
 Yes,  you  can  postpone  the  tank  size  upgrade  as  of  now..
 For  Filter  get  a  HOB  (Hang  on  back)  with  a  300  liter/hr  out  put..
 IMO,  bore  well  water  is  more  worse  than  municipal  water  as  they  contain  unknown  metal  traces  in  them..  so  whatever  water  you  use,  its  better  to  follow  as  advised  earlier..
 And  regarding  the  first  medicine,  they  are  kind  of  a  gimmick..  they  are  so  highly  diluted  that  it  could  hardly  be  the  cause  of  fish  death..
 Ridall  seems  to  be  a  good  product,  I  have  not  used  it  myself  though.
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Caesar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

                                                   
deepakg  wrote  (View  Post):                
+1  Nidhi
 what  else  you  can  expect  without  a  bio  filter.  Use  anti  chlorine  liquid  while  water  change.  And  other  reason  might  be  overfeeding.  Access  food  rots  the  water  which  help  deseases  to  grow.  
 By  the  way...  whats  your  location?                

 
 Im  in  Raipur,  CG  and  i  gotta  watch  the  feeding  too,  though  im  generally  careful  with  the  amount  of  food  to  give  and  always  make  it  a  point  to  remove  any  remaining  floating  food  after  like  15-20  mins;  but  i  guess  some  it  sinks  to  the  bottom  and  rots!  Restricted  diet  for  the  fish  once  they  recover!!
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Caesar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:35 am Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

                                                   
Nidhi  wrote  (View  Post):                
Caeser,
 Yes,  you  can  postpone  the  tank  size  upgrade  as  of  now..
 For  Filter  get  a  HOB  (Hang  on  back)  with  a  300  liter/hr  out  put..
 IMO,  bore  well  water  is  more  worse  than  municipal  water  as  they  contain  unknown  metal  traces  in  them..  so  whatever  water  you  use,  its  better  to  follow  as  advised  earlier..
 And  regarding  the  first  medicine,  they  are  kind  of  a  gimmick..  they  are  so  highly  diluted  that  it  could  hardly  be  the  cause  of  fish  death..
 Ridall  seems  to  be  a  good  product,  I  have  not  used  it  myself  though.                

 
 Thanks  for  the  suggestion..ill  try  and  find  one  in  the  LFS  tomorrow;  BTW  i  was  checking  them  online  and  it  seems  because  they  are  seated  on  the  edge  of  the  tank  it  wont  be  possible  to  put  the  cover  of  the  aquarium  on  so  maybe  ill  have  to  make  some  alternate  arrangement  for  lighting  as  well?  But  is  it  a  good  idea  to  leave  the  tank  uncovered?  wont  it  be  more  prone  to  contamination  like  dust  and  insects  etc..?
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Caesar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 Whats  your  opinion  on  this  one
 
 http://www.ebay.in/itm/Aquatop-3D-HOB-Hang-On-Back-Power-Filter-ROF-/271000601160?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_203&hash=item3f18e50248#ht_2026wt_906
 
 are  they  all  in  this  price  range  or  there  are  VFM  options  available  which  would  deliver  the  goods  too  without  conking  out  whenever..can  you  suggest  some  brands  to  look  out  for  so  i  can  make  a  better  decision  provided  i  succeed  in  locating  one  in  the  LFS's  of  my  city.
 
 PS:  i  realize  this  one  is  being  delivered  from  the  US  hence  custom  duties  etc  nearly  double  the  price  of  the  actual  equipment.
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jabba
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 That  is  a  way  tooo  expensive  one  for  a  HOB.
 You  can  get  a  canister  filter  for  that  price  in  India.
 
 For  filter  you  can  go  for  Sunsun,dolphin,boyu,JBL....all  these  will  cost  you  3XX  for  300  liter  capacity.
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deepakg
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 You  can  feed  them  palettes  easily  available  in  any  lfs.  Use  a  top  filter  as  Nidhi  suggested.  Or  go  for  a  sunsun  cannister  filter.  Cheap  and  good.  
 One  more  thing  keep  the  filter  running  24/7.  Or  your  bactaria  are  dead.
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Caesar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 Scoured  the  LFS's  all  they  have  are  internal  filters,  so  i  guess  ill  have  to  order  online.  But  im  still  not  comfortable  with  the  idea  of  keeping  the  aquarium  without  a  lid!  Anyway  around  that?
 
 PS:  The  fish  are  off  the  tank  bottom  and  swimming  around,  still  not  as  active  as  before  but  definitely  better  than  two  days  ago!!   Very Happy  Should  i  still  hold  off  food  or  feed  them  some?
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deepakg
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 You  can  feed  them  pallets  small  amount...  idea  is  to  keep  the  water  clean.  Keep  heater  on.   No  dry  worms  please.
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Caesar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 Thinking  of  ordering  the  SunSun  HBL  301  or  Ocean  free  EF-071;  any  ideas  on  either  of  these?  also  whether  these  filters  come  with  the  filter  media  or  ill  have  to  source  them  separately?
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vkv
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

 An  internal  filter  will  do  fine  as  long  as  you  keep  up  with  regular  small  water  changes.
 its  a  cheap  alternative  while  you  sort  out  your  hobby.
 Unfortunately  you  have  chosen  the  highest  waste  producing  fish.
 
 goldfish  are  always  hungry  but  they  can  go  without  food  for  much  longer  than  we  expect.  I  would  say  hold  off  for  a  day  or  so  and  then  feed  very  lightly  alternate  days.
 
 Note  that  the  pleco  is  primarily  an  algae  eater.  feed  him  algae  wafers  or  even  sliced  cucumber  will  do.  Goldfish  like  vegetable  matter  as  well.
 
 The  tank  or  fish  do  not  need  light  unless  you  have  live  plants  and  those  would  not  last  too  long  with  golds.
 
 regards,
 Venkat
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Caesar
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Help required for sick blackmoors Reply with quote

                                                   
deepakg  wrote  (View  Post):                
You  can  feed  them  pallets  small  amount...  idea  is  to  keep  the  water  clean.  Keep  heater  on.  ┬áNo  dry  worms  please.                

 
 thanks  @deepakg  '  heater  is  on  at  30  deg  C  should  i  always  keep  it  at  that  or  maybe  reduce  it  to  28  deg  C  after  the  fish  recover?  Pellets  it  is  from  now  BTW  wht  can  i  feed  them  as  a  variety  food  for  a  change?
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