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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Copper content
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Copper content

 
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Athreyan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:59 pm Post subject: Copper content Reply with quote

 Hello  all,
 I  wonder  if  this  topic  has  been  discussed  before.  I  tried  a  search  in  the  forum  and  didn't  get  any  hits.  So  here  goes...
 
 I'm  in  the  process  of  preparing  fertilizers  (PMDD)  for  my  planted  tank.  I  have  already  made  my  macro  solution  (started  dosing  only  this  week).
 I  also  want  to  make  a  micro  nutrient  fertilizer.  i  have  read  numerous  threads  on  IAH  and  went  around  hunting  for  Microsol-B.  No  luck   Crying or Very sad  .
 I  do  find  many  other  brands  of  micro  ferts  with  similar  composition.  What  I'm  most  bothered  about  is  the  copper  content  in  these  mixes.
 So  my  basic  question  is:  How  much  copper  is  permissible  for  a  fish  tank?  In  simpler  terms,  what  can  be  the  maximum  percentage  (or  other  unit)  of  copper  content  in  the  fert  mix  I'm  looking  to  buy?
 
 I  have  noticed  that  there  is  some  amount  of  copper  in  Microsol-B  and  also  other  mixes  people  use  in  the  west  (CSM+B  etc).  SO  I'm  guessing,  some  amount  is  definitely  'aquarium  safe'.
 
 I  don't  want  to  experiment  at  the  cost  of  the  lives  of  my  fish!  HELP!  Help
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Mortis
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 The  amount  is  well  below  how  much  would  be  toxic  even  to  shrimp  and  other  inverts  so  dont  worry  about  it
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superbsite
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 Copper  content  levels  for  shrimps  should  be  <  0.02  ppm
 This  is  what  I've  read  online
 
 The  Micro  Nutrient  mixes  have  very  low  levels  of  copper
 
 Fore  eg  If  you  use  this  site  to  calculate  ppm  for  CSM+B
 http://calc.petalphile.com/
 
 An  example  of  my  dosing  gives  you  the  results  of  copper  in  it  which  is  0.0043  very  low  levels
 
 7.0  g  Plantex  CSM+B  to  your  500.0  mL  container,  with  doses  of  24.0  mL  to  your  71.0  L  aquarium  adds
 Element ppm/degree
 B 0.06
 Cu 0.0043
 Fe 0.31
 Mg 0.07
 Mn 0.09
 Mo 0.0024
 Zn 0.02
 dGH 0.02
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Athreyan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 I  don't  know  if  didn't  write  properly  the  first  time  around.
 What  I  meant  was,  Plantex  CSM+B  has  .01%  copper  content.  Will  it  be  ok  if  I  get  some  mix  (some  other  brand)  which  has  a  slightly  higher  concentration  of  copper  (.05%  or  .07%).
 
 The  basic  question  being,  what  is  the  maximum  number  (in  %)  that  I  should  be  on  the  lookout  for?  I  understand  that,  to  mix  it  into  a  solution,  the  ratio  of  other  components  (Fe,  Co,  Zn,  Mn  etc.)  also  has  to  be  taken  into  account.
 
 thanks
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abhip29
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 As  far  as  I  have  read  on  the  net  &  practical  experience,  we  use  Copper  based  medications  (Coppersafe/  CUPRAMINE)  to  cure  Ich/  Ick  on  fishes.  0.25  mg/L  in  freshwater  is  recommended  dosage  but  not  for  long  durations.  
 
 So,  I  guess  it  would  cause  less  harm  on  fishes  but  more  concentration  of  Copper  will  definitely  harm  the  invertebrates  present  in  you  aquarium.
 
 Regards,
 ABHILASH
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Athreyan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 @Abhilash:
 You  have  a  valid  point  there.  Any  expert  opinions  here?
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 Diana  Walstad  has  mentioned  in  "Ecology  of  Planted  Aquarium"  that  copper  levels  over  .02  ppm  are  harmful  for  fishes.
 After  Lead  it  is  the  most  toxic  heavy  metal.
 So  you  can  plan  accordingly.
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Athreyan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 Thanks  Sandeep  for  that  tip.
 
 correct  me  if  I'm  wrong:  0.02ppm  should  be  the  level  in  the  tank.  So  if  there  is,  for  example,  0.1%  in  the  actual  fertilizer.  Hypothetically,  I  will  be  making  a  stock  solution  of  500ml  with  15gms  of  fert  mix  &  dosing  about  2ml  (2x  /week).  Wouldn't  that  keep  the  copper  content  low  enough?  50%  water  change  weekly.  
 
 Sorry  for  asking  the  same  thing  over  &  over.  i  can't  figure  out  how  to  calculate  these  things!  
   Rolling Eyes  
 
 I  found  this  company  'karnataka  agro  chemicals'  who  run  a  brand  called  'multiplex'.  They  have  a  wide  variety  of  micro  nutrient  ferts  for  various  crops.  There  are  two  products,  of  whose  names  I  forget,  that  seemed  pretty  close  to  microsol-B.  they  did  contain  copper  (amount  forgotten  Thumb Down  ).  The  problem  is,  they  don't  have  any  MSDS  online.  So  I  have  to  go  to  the  shop  to  find  out.  If  this  discussion  goes  to  plan   Rock On  I'll  probably  head  to  that  fert  guy  &  buy  the  stuff  and  try  it  out.
 
 Just  to  inform  you,  I'm  doing  the  low  tech  EI  method  of  Tom  Barr  &  this  is  a  10G  tank  (20*12*10).  The  tank  is  heavily  planted  &  about  2  months  old.  I  have  started  dosing  macros  only  this  week.  There  has  been  some  malnutrition  to  the  plants  &  cyanobacteria.  So  I'm  thinking  there  is  NO3  deficiency.  I  use  one  24W  T5HO  for  7  hours  (split  -  4hrs  morning  &  3hrs  evening)  with  DIY  CO2.  
 
 Thanks  everyone!
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Deepak267
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 as  per  my  experience,  you  will  be  fine  with  some  amount  of  Cu  (if  you  dont  have  shrimps).  i  had  a  disaster  with  overdosing  of  Micros...   
 
 try  to  make  1  continuous  lighting  schedule.  as  plants  take  some  time  to  start  the  Photosyntheses,
 
 
 Good  Luck
 Deepak
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Copper content Reply with quote

 What  is  the  ratio  of  iron  in  your  mix,  you  need  to  calculate  the  dosage  for  iron,  and  then  see  whether  it  is  toxic  or  not.
 Micros  are  normally  adminstered  in  very  dilute  forms,  so  unless  you  are  overdosing  to  a  large  extent,it  should  be  fine.
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