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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Sump for a Planted tank
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Sump for a Planted tank
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:36 am Post subject: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 I  have  a  45  g  ,  36x18x18"  planted  tank  with  pressurised  Co2.
 I  also  use  a  reactor,  ehiem  filter.
 Due  to  all  this  there  are  a  lot  of  equipment  inside  the  tank.
 I  am  now  thinking  of  setting  up  a  sump  for  this  tank,  this  will  help  in  reducing  the  clutter  a  little  bit.
 Is  it  possible  to  have  a  sump  without  drilling  the  tank,  and  can  I  use  a  22  g  tank  as  a  sump.
 Any  pointer  will  be  helpful.
 
 Check  this  for  tank  details
 
 http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=30779
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cichlid_lover
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 1.  Overflow  boxes  are  not  100%  dependable  and  they  cost  a  bomb(6xxx).  Otherwise  looks  feasible.  People  have  used  auto  start  pumps  along  with  them  but  then  chances  of  failing  cannot  be  removed  completely.  I  looked  at  all  the  options  and  finally  drilled  the  holes  for  the  sump.  
 
 2.  The  other  bad  thing  will  be  that  you  loose  lots  of  CO2  due  to  the  turbulent  nature  of  sumps  and  them  beng  open  to  air,  unlike  closed  canisters.  You  may  have  to  tune  your  bubble  rate  a  bit  higher  when  you  have  the  sump.
 
 3.  Electricity  costs  for  the  return  pump.(though  not  very  high,  its  a  24x7  expense).  If  you  can  combine  the  reactors  and  the  canisters  serially  ,  I  think  you  can  get  the  same  advantage  of  a  sump......
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josyjames
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 Overflow  boxes  are  widely  used  in  marine  tanks.  Its  not  that  they  require  an  auto  start  pumps  to  prime  the  box.  Once  the  over  flow  box  is  primed,  the  water  remains  in  the  box  always  and  it  starts  functioning  as  soon  as  the  water  in  the  main  tank  goes  higher  than  the  overflow  inlet.
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cichlid_lover
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Overflow  boxes  are  widely  used  in  marine  tanks.  Its  not  that  they  require  an  auto  start  pumps  to  prime  the  box.  Once  the  over  flow  box  is  primed,  the  water  remains  in  the  box  always  and  it  starts  functioning  as  soon  as  the  water  in  the  main  tank  goes  higher  than  the  overflow  inlet.                

 
 How  many  overflow  boxes  without  auto  start  have  you  seen  which  work  all  the  time?  The  westerners  use  it  very  commonly  but  they  do  not  have  powercuts  like  we  have.  Once  the  siphon  is  created,  it  works  like  a  charm.  But  if  it  doesn't  then  you  are  in  soup.
 
 I  once  had  a  person  demonstrate  how  efficient  the  overflow  boxes  were  and  it  failed  at  the  same  time.  I  tried  turning  the  power  ON/OFF  and  there  it  failed  to  create  the  siphon  once.  Thats  enough  to  cause  disaster  if  your  display  tank  water  level  is  close  to  the  surface  and  the  sump  starts  pumping  water  to  the  display,  eventually  burning  the  motor  and  water  all  over  the  floor.  You  could  always  argue  that  you  have  used  it  for  years  without  problems,  but  then  its  risky  thats  what  I  have  observed(especially  if  you  have  daily  powercuts)
 
 I  know  people  who  used  two  overflow  boxes  to  take  care  of  this  situation.  It  happends  when  you  get  bubbles  accumulated  near  the  siphon  intake.  It  grows  in  size  gradually  and  finally  one  day  when  the  power  goes  off,  it  may  not  turn  ON  automatically.  The  auto  start  is  meant  to  stop  this  by  sucking  all  these  bubbles  and  ensuring  the  siphon.  There  are  more  expensive  ones  which  people  claim  works  to  an  extent,  but  then  you  might  have  to  choose  wisely  before  making  the  buy.  The  one  I  tested  was  an  eshopps  overflow.
 
 You  can  get  rid  of  all  this  by  drilling  two-  three  holes(Check  for  bean-animal  design).  It  will  always  work  as  its  gravity  based  and  not  siphon  based  like  overflow  boxes.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 I  would  advise  against  overflow  boxes.  It  is  bound  to  fail  usually  at  the  worst  possible  time.
 you  could  try  drilling  your  tank  in  place  or  using  a  dremel  to  cut  a  lip  on  one  edge  of  the  tank  and  build  an  overflow  but  its  not  very  safe.
 Best  to  empty  and  drill.  you  could  take  out  livestock  and  reduce  water  to  very  low  level.
 
 regards,
 Venkat
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

                                                   
cichlid_lover  wrote  (View  Post):                
1.  Overflow  boxes  are  not  100%  dependable  and  they  cost  a  bomb(6xxx).  Otherwise  looks  feasible.  People  have  used  auto  start  pumps  along  with  them  but  then  chances  of  failing  cannot  be  removed  completely.  I  looked  at  all  the  options  and  finally  drilled  the  holes  for  the  sump.  
 
 2.  The  other  bad  thing  will  be  that  you  loose  lots  of  CO2  due  to  the  turbulent  nature  of  sumps  and  them  beng  open  to  air,  unlike  closed  canisters.  You  may  have  to  tune  your  bubble  rate  a  bit  higher  when  you  have  the  sump.
 
 3.  Electricity  costs  for  the  return  pump.(though  not  very  high,  its  a  24x7  expense).  If  you  can  combine  the  reactors  and  the  canisters  serially  ,  I  think  you  can  get  the  same  advantage  of  a  sump......                

 
 It  seems  drilling  holes  is  best  option  in  long  run.  My  tank  remains  unattended  for  long  periods  so  I  cannot  risk  a  malfunction.
 As  regards  electricity  cost  I  already  have  a  pump  running  for  reactor,  so  it  will  not  make  a  diff.
 I  tried  running  my  reactor  earlier  with  canister  but  there  is  no  solenoid  so  during  power  cuts  the  excess  co2  used  to  create  air  locks  in  canister.
 BTW  what  should  be  the  ideal  size  for  sump,  will  a  22  g  do  for  45  g  tank
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josyjames
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 If  I  am  not  wrong,  the  sump  should  be  able  to  hold  85%  of  the  water  volume  of  your  display  tank.  Let  experts  comment  more  on  this.
 
 Also  it  depends  on  the  overflow  drain  pipe  size  that  you  are  planning  to  use.  The  drain  pipe  size  should  match  with  the  return  pump  lt/hr  rate.  Or  else,  it  will  flood.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 I  would  say,  if  you  plan  your  sump  properly,  you  could  do  much  more  than  what  you  plan  initially.  Eg:  For  water  top  off,  you  coulld  have  a  section  slightly  higher  than  the  others.  You  might  need  baffles  for  removing  the  air  bubbles.  Also  ,  if  its  too  narrow,  cleaning  them  will  be  difficult.  Can  you  describe  what  dimensions  the  sump  is  going  to  be  and  what  baffles  you  are  planning  to  keep?  A  sump  can  probably  get  rid  of  the  canister  in  your  existing  tank,  if  you  setup  the  media  properly.  In  freshwater  planted  tanks,  you  do  not  have  nitrate  problems  and  so  you  could  get  an  elaborate  media  setup.
 If  you  are  looking  for  drain  sizes  and  motor  specs,  google  "Bean  Animal".  Thats  the  best  overflow  I  have  seen.  Works  like  a  charm.  You  could  use  a  dorso  pipe  for  silencing  the  whole  thing...  Also  make  sure  you  have  two  pipes  leading  to  the  sump,  one  being  adjustable  using  a  valve.
 As  venkat  has  said  earlier,  you  could  try  a  dremel  to  chip  off  one  of  the  top  edges(back  side)  and  thus  save  a  lot  of  real  estate  within  the  tank.  You  do  not  need  to  drill  holes  ,  you  save  space  and  all  the  ugly  things  go  behind  your  tank.  The  only  thing  is  you  need  someone  who  can  cut  the  glass  properly.  With  holes,  its  quite  easy  that  even  a  first  timer  can  get  it  right  with  proper  drilling  bits.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 A  sump  can  be  any  size  thats  convenient.  Unlike  a  marine  you  are  not  attempting  to  maximize  water  volume  here.
 Just  dont  place  your  CO2  diffuser/reactor  in  the  sump.  leave  it  in  the  DT  for  maximum  efficiency.
 
 Regards,
 Venkat
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 Sandeep  Bhai,
 
 You  can  plan  the  sump  quite  the  opposite  way  instead  of  overflowing  from  tank  to  sump,  overflow  from  sump  to  tank.
 This  is  useful  because  you  might  not  have  to  drill  a  running  tank  which  is  risky  while  procuring  glass  already  drilled  for  sump  is  easy.  Secondly  in  planted  tanks  the  solid  waste  is  usually  at  the  bottom  of  the  tank,  so  pumping  it  from  the  bottom  of  display  tank  to  sump  and  overflowing  from  sump  to  tank  would  cause  solid  waste  to  deposit  in  sump  instead  of  tank.  The  sump  could  be  cleaned  time  to  time  of  the  solid  waste.
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 Thats  a  good  idea  but  would  involve  adding  a  pump  into  the  DT.  not  ideal  if  the  ultimate  objective  is  to  rid  the  DT  of  equipment.
 I  assume  you  mean  adding   a  sump  at  higher  level  and  pumping  water  into  the  sump  and  overflowing  into  the  DT.
 
 Of  course  a  self  priming  pump  might  solve  that  problem.
 
 regards,
 Venkat
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

                                                   
saurabh_m  wrote  (View  Post):                
Sandeep  Bhai,
 You  can  plan  the  sump  quite  the  opposite  way  instead  of  overflowing  from  tank  to  sump,  overflow  from  sump  to  tank.
                 

 
 An  overhead  tank  !  Hmmmm.....Black  Sintex  ?
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 @  VKV,  removing  all  the  clutter  and  adding  just  a  small  pump  would  not  matter  much  I  think.  The  pump  could  always  be  hidden  behind,  rocks/  plants  /  woods.
 
 @  Madan  Sir,  not  exactly  a  Black  Sintex,  that  would  be  too  high  to  clean.  If  we  keep  it  over  the  roof,  water  would  become  too  hot.  
 What  I  mean  is  suppose  the  tank  height  is  18",  lets  make  the  sump  24"  in  height.  Now  this  sump  could  be  placed  at  the  same  level  as  tank.  The  water  would  overflow  from  sump  to  tank.  
 Actually  I  have  such  a  sump  with  me.  I  had  a  thread  about  it  but  am  unable  to  find  it  now.
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saurabh_m
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 Here's  the  link
 My  sump.
 The  first  attempt  was  a  disaster.  Afterwards,  I  made  it  with  glass  and  is  a  success.  Smile
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Sump for a Planted tank Reply with quote

 Saurabh,  your  tank  was  the  main  inspiration  behind  this  idea,  but  I  think  your  sump  is  places  at  same  level  of  main  tank.
 I  wanted  to  place  it  below  the  main  tank.
 Going  through  your  link  now,  thanks.
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