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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL
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MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL
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doc_siddhu
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

                                                   
apcmge  wrote  (View  Post):                
Ok.  But  since  you  are  planning  to  have  plants  and  substrate  in  Refugium(  I  assume  thats  for  ensuring  supply  of  oxygenated  water  to  main  tank).  24/7  lights  will  lead  to  algae  growth.                

 
 yes  it  will  lead  to  algae  growth  IN  THE  REFUGIUM,  which  is  good.  algae  will  also  b  of  great  help  in  clearing  the  nitrates.  if  theres  lots  of  bioload  which  the  plants  cant  handle  alone,  algae  will  help  clearing  them.  when  the  nitrates  run  low  the  algae  will  die  out..
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Athreyan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 @Sanjay:  world  over,  refugiums  are  run  with  lights  running  24/7.  There  will  be  no  problem  as  plants  will  be  continuously  on  photosynthesis  &  that  will  prevent  algae  in  the  main  tank,  provided  the  refugium  is  also  planted  densely.
 
 we  have  set  photo  periods  for  our  main  tanks  due  to  various  other  reasons.  First  being  the  fish.  Fish  need  dark  hours  for  relaxation.  The  first  reason  is  enough  justification  IMO.  Secondly,  running  lights  all  the  time  will  require  other  parameters(ferts,  CO2  etc)  also  to  be  up  to  the  mark.
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doc_siddhu
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

                                                   
Athreyan  wrote  (View  Post):                
@Sanjay:  world  over,  refugiums  are  run  with  lights  running  24/7.  There  will  be  no  problem  as  plants  will  be  continuously  on  photosynthesis  &  that  will  prevent  algae  in  the  main  tank,  provided  the  refugium  is  also  planted  densely.
 
 we  have  set  photo  periods  for  our  main  tanks  due  to  various  other  reasons.  First  being  the  fish.  Fish  need  dark  hours  for  relaxation.  The  first  reason  is  enough  justification  IMO.  Secondly,  running  lights  all  the  time  will  require  other  parameters(ferts,  CO2  etc)  also  to  be  up  to  the  mark.                

 
 +1   Thumb Up  
 
 can  u  advise  me  on  the  substrate  and  minimum  adequate  lighting  plz
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Mortis
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 Having  the  lights  on  24/7  will  itself  cause  algae.  Plants  need  a  dark  period.  You  must  be  confused  with  a  marine  refugium  and  marine  algae
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 @Mortis:  FW  refugiums  are  run  in  that  manner.  Now  I  don't  know  the  scientific  explanations  to  this,  but  that's  how  its  done  by  anyone  who  has  a  FW  refugium.  I  once  planned  on  doing  this  for  a  120G,  but  just  went  with  a  wet/dry  sump  due  to  the  electricity  problems  in  Tamilnadu.  That's  when  I  read  up  on  this  system.
 
 Not  many  people  have  sumps  for  their  FW  tanks,  much  less  keep  a  refugium.
 
 @doc_siddhu:  IMO  you  must  make  the  refugium  like  a  low-tech  setup.  Keep  the  light  low  (1.5WPG).  most  people  just  use  a  CFL,  so  not  very  penetrating  light.  Keep  easy  &  fast  growing  plants.  Fast  growing  plants  need  more  nutrients,  so  uptake  will  be  huge  &  your  nitrate  levels  will  be  0  or  minimal.  I  would  go  with  plants  like  H.difformis,  cabomba,  java  moss  etc.  H.difformis  would  be  my  favorite  though.  I  think  an  inert  substrate  would  be  fine.  You  don't  want  extra  nutrition.
 
 just  saw  your  sump  design.  I  think  you  should  make  only  one  of  the  chambers  a  refugium.  Use  the  other  one  for  more  bio-filtration.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:08 am Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 Hi  Athreyan/doc_siddhu,
 
 I  have  never  heard  of  fw  sumps  being  lit  24/7.
 I  did  a  quick  search  and  the  first  forum  I  checked  argued  against  a  24/7  light  cycle.
 
 Most  common  seems  to  be  a  reverse  lighting  setup.
 
 There  is  ample  information  pointing  to  the  fact  that  higher  order  plants  need  dark  and  light  cycles.
 This  is  not  true  for  lower  order  plants  like  algae  though..
 
 The  point  on  algae  going  sexual  points  suspiciously  towards  a  marine  setup.
 Caulerpa  is  a  common  algae  kept  in  marine  sumps  that  does  have  this  behaviour.
 Most  other  algae  dont.   Also  the  point  on  nitrates.
 
 Not  disputing  what  you  mention  but  would  like  you  point  me  to  a  few  links  that  mention  these  points  for  fw.
 
 Regards,
 Venkat
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apcmge
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 "yes  it  will  lead  to  algae  growth  IN  THE  REFUGIUM,  which  is  good.  algae  will  also  b  of  great  help  in  clearing  the  nitrates.  if  theres  lots  of  bioload  which  the  plants  cant  handle  alone,  algae  will  help  clearing  them.  when  the  nitrates  run  low  the  algae  will  die  out..  "
 
 Its  quite  opposite  actually.  infact,  high  nitrates  cause  algae.  And  high  nitrates  is  the  result  of  detrius,  excess  feeding,  decaying  plant  leaves  etc.  Now  you  are  looking  at  a  catch  22  situation.  Your  plan  is  to  run  24/7  lights,  which  will  cause  algae  growth.Algae  growth  will  lead  to  plants  decaying  and  thus  increasing  nitrates  in  water.  High  nitrates  lead  to  stressed  fishes  ,  which  are  susceptible  to  diseases.  
 
 Also  ,  algae  doesnt  die  out  because  of  low  nitrate  level.  Algae  control  is  done  by  adequate  lighting  period,  balanced  fertilization  and  adeqaute  plants  in  tank.
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Athreyan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 video
 
 This  is  a  video  I  saw  a  while  ago.  Its  a  discus  tank  with  a  refugium  where  they  run  the  lights  24/7.  Its  a  long  video,  but  look  at  it  at  the  beginning  to  understand  that  it  is  a  discus  tank.  Around  the  9th  minute  they  talk  about  the  refugium.  They  do  seem  to  have  some  similarity  in  working,  with  reef  refugiums.
 
 if  the  experts  can  throw  more  light  on  the  subject  -  would  be  nice  to  know  how  they  work  on  similar  principles.
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vkv
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 I  went  through  that  loooong  video.  Very Happy  
 
 IMO,  its  little  inconclusive  because  he  talks  intermittently  about  marine  and  fw  so  its  difficult  to  decipher  if  the  point  is  about  fw.
 For  eg.  While  discussing  the  miracle  mud  he  talks  specifically  about  salt  water  and  also  mentions  the  marine  macro  algae  caulerpa  going  sexual  and  how  24/7  lighting  keeps  it  from  doing  that.
 
 The  clear  bit  is  that  he  seems  to  confirm  that  he  runs  his  lights  24  hours  at  the  beginning  of  the  lighting  discussion.
 
 I  would  be  inclined  to  place  my  trust  in  a  discussion  on  plant  forums  rather  than  an  LFS  testimonial.
 
 Im  sure  it  may  have  worked  for  him  in  some  way  but  would  be  extremely  wary  of  trying  this  especially  since  it  involves  greater  power  consumption  with  no  scientific  basis  and  marginal  utility  at  best.
 
   Just  my  view.  Thumb Up
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 @vkv:  I  agree  that  its  a  bit  of  a  see-saw  talk  between  marine  &  FW.  Also,  if  you  notice,  he  talks  about  how  some  people  alternate  the  photo  period.  He  says  that  when  the  DT  lights  are  on,  the  refugium  lights  are  off  &  then  vice  versa.  That's  probably  another  method,  which  I  have  not  come  across  anywhere  else.
 
 So  now  we're  confusing  the  OP  even  further!   ROFL
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 Actually  alternating  the  DT  and  refugium  lights  is  a  very  common  and  recommended  practice  in  salt  water.  It  has  a  very  sound  reasoning  because  it  helps  the  ph  swing  reduce  in  a  salty  tank.
 
 A  refugium  is  a  concept  more  suitable  for  marine  since  its  primary  purpose  is  to  provide  "refuge"  to  organisms  that  cannot  compete  or  survive  in  the  DT.  It  provides  place  for  these  to  grow  so  that  they  can  act  as  feed  for  the  fish/inverts.  There  are  additional  uses  but  most  are  relevant  to  salt  tanks.
 I  do  not  believe  they  are  relevant  to  freshwater  tanks  where  a  sump  is  more  of  a  filter.
 
 My  advise  on  running  lights  24/7  is-  Dont  do  it.  :D
 
 Regards,
 Venkat
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 thx  for  the  replies  guyz
 
 @  Athreyan.  ive  seen  that  video  already   Smile  
 ive  watched  many  videos  on  refugiums  and  went  through  a  few  forums  too
 
 all  of  u  have  put  forth  valid  points.  theres  still  debate  on  some  points  but  the  general  consensus  is
 -  refugiums  are  VERY  effective  in  keeping  nitrates  to  a  minimum  and  stabilizing  water  parameters  like  pH  etc.  reducing  the  need  for  frequent  water  changes.  some  do  changes  once  a  few  months  only.  new  water  is  needed  to  replenish  the  depleted  minerals  for  the  plants  n  fish.  
 
 they  are  becoming  popular  since  the  last  few  years.  mostly  for  salt  water  tanks.  for  fresh  water  tanks  its  not  that  necessary  because  of  easier  maintenance  and  easy  to  do  water  changes.
 for  FW  tanks,   the  idea  is  just  like  having  a  new  planted  tank  attached  -  it  increases  the  total  water  volume  and  the  amount  of  plants  you  can  have  and  so  can  handle  a  lot  more  bioload.  
 
 plain  wet  dry  sumps  are  supposedly  not  as  effective  and  are  slowly  becoming  obsolete  for  SW  setups  in  the  west.  many  report  using  refugiums   for  FW  too  with  great  results.
 
 peoples  reasoning  for  24/7  lights-  1.  continuous  photosynthesis  by  the  plants,  continuous  utilization  of  nitrogen  wastes.  the  plants  might  not  be  at  their  best,  but  still  do  a  great  job  and  will  thrive  [hopedfully   Smile  ]  as  ive  seen  in  videos.  
 2.  second  reason-  when  lights  are  turned  off,  plants  stop  photosynthesis  and  start  releasing  CO2,  which  causes  ph  to  go  down
 
 im  going  to  have  a  river  sand  substrate  in  my  main  tank  with  plants,  anubias  mostly,  growing  on  driftwood.  and  will  have  densely  planted  refugiums  in  2  chambers-  50  gallons.  everyone  use  only  a  single  chamber,  but  my  sump  is  already  built   and  the  capacity  of  one  chamber  would  be  too  less  for  my  600  gallon  tank.  the  more  the  better.
 
 ill  try  the  24/7  lights  for  a  month  or  two  and  see  how  it  works.  if  the  tanks  are  densely  planted  with  lots  of  shrimp  etc  ,  there  might  not  be  an  algae  problem.
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doc_siddhu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 black  background  has  been  applied
 
 
 
 
 
 
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doc_siddhu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 carpenter  work  has  started  today
 
 
 
 
 
 just  the  outer  frame.  will  take  over  a  week  to  finish  i  guess
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ruchit
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: MY 8 FEET TANK JOURNAL Reply with quote

 Impressive.  My  main  concern  is  keeping  the  co2  levels  constant,  as  with  the  overflow  system  the  co2  concentration  drops  drastically.
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