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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM
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UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 Help  
 
 Is  UnderGravel  Filter  is  compulsory  required  for  a  Marine  Aquarium....  What  are  the  Advantages  &  Disadvantages  of  UG  Filter  in  Marine  Aquarium..
 
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 What  is  your  set-up  like?  fish  only,  fish  only  with  live  rocks  or  reef?
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 it  will  be  fish  only  with  dead  rock  or  may  be  I  can  add  some  live  rock
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cokeamod
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 If  fish  only,  UG  might  work  good  GIVEN  you  regularly  siphon  out  clogged  debris  from  the  gravel  and  keep  the  gravel  stirred  frequently.
 
 If  fowlr,  then  UG  is  not  necessary  at  all,  just  go  slow  while  adding  new  fish.
 
 P.S:  Any  dead  rock  will  become  "live"  after  certain  amount  of  time.
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 I  would  rather  not  take  the  risk  of  having  an  undergravel  filter  in  a  marine  tank  especially  when  running  a  DSB.  
 I'd  rather  go  with  an  external  filter  or  sump,  which  are  much  easier  to  clean.
 Also  trying  to  vacum  up  the  sandbed  is  pretty  hard  when  you  have  a  LR  piled  on  it.
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:58 am Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
P.S:  Any  dead  rock  will  become  "live"  after  certain  amount  of  time                

 *correction:
 any  porous  dead  rock  'can'  become  'live'  in  a  matter  of  time  provided  it  is  seeded  properly  by  other  live  rocks!
 @rocky,
 I  have  been  saying  this  almost  every  time  and  would  again  like  to  repeat  this  that  please  analyse  your  filtration  needs  before  considering  a  filter.  Tell  me  why  do  you  want  to  use  UGF?  I  have  often  seen  people  blindly  copying  others  -  but,  what  works  for  someone  might  not  work  for  a  different  system!
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 hey  PSIMHAN..  ...  what  is  DSB..?
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 hey  PSIMHAN..  ...  what  is  DSB..?
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 Deep  Sand  Bed  -  Sand  bed  of  3"  and  more  in  depth
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 Hi  rocky!I'll  assume  you  will  stock  live  rock(if  you  dont  plan  to,then  I  strongly  urge  you  to  do  so,for  biological  and  esthetic  reasons).Now  that  I  have  "decided"  Very Happy   that  you  will  have  live  rock,I  think  UG  filtration  is  more  a  bother  than  a  service  to  your  marine  tank.
 Advantages  of  UG  
 1.Tremendous  filtration  capability,considering  the  amount  of  filtration  media  that  will  be  used(the  entire  sand  bed)
 2.Cheap  filtration  to  set  up.(and  satisfaction  of  DIY)
 3.Relatively  invisible.
 4.Will  not  allow  any  "dead"  areas  under  the  sand.
 Disadvantage(s)  of  UG
 1.Live  rock  tends  to  spew  white  powder  24/7(the  marine  gurus  may  be  able  to  explain  where  so  much  powder/dust  comes  from)this  powder/dust  will  clog  your  UG  in  a  matter  of  weeks.So  whether  you  remember  to  brush  your  teeth  or  not,you  HAVE  to  siphon/churn  the  gravel  frequently
 2.Due  to  the  tremendous  media  for  nitrogen  cycle,nitrates  will  rise  pretty  fast.So  you  need  to  do  frequent  water  changes(more  than  the  average  of  25%  per  month)
 3.If  for  some  reason  you  need  to  correct  anything  with  your  filter(god  help  you)you  need  to  strip  the  entire  tank  to  fix  the  filtration.(but  little  can  go  wrong....so!)
 
 With  all  due  respect  to  DSB  believers,not  having  any  circulation  under  4  inches  of  sand  gives  me  the  jitters.It  is  a  very  delicate  biological  balance  to  get  a  DSB  working.Things  can  get  SERIOUSLY  wrong  if  hydrogen  sulphide  pockets  develop.
 
 I'd  go  only  two  ways  and  leave  DSB  for  the  very  learned:
 a)  Go  in  for  a  very  thin  layer  of  sand  to  keep  it  well  circulated(better  still  go  bare  bottom,cover  the  entire  floor  with  smaller  L.Rock(it  can  look  good  like  that  too)
 b)If  you  must  have  lots  of  sand  in  your  aquascaping,then  UG  would  be  needed.
 
 Dear  rocky...as  a  learner  in  the  marine  hobby  I  have  been  very  confused.I  hope  I  have  shared  some  of  that  confusion  with  you!  Very Happy   Chuckle
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 Hey  Murthy...  thank  u  very  much  for  your  suggestion...  Thumb Up
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 @Murthy,
 very  good  post  there!
 
                                                 
Quote:                
1.Live  rock  tends  to  spew  white  powder  24/7(the  marine  gurus  may  be  able  to  explain  where  so  much  powder/dust  comes  from)this  powder/dust  will  clog  your  UG  in  a  matter  of  weeks.So  whether  you  remember  to  brush  your  teeth  or  not,you  HAVE  to  siphon/churn  the  gravel  frequently                
 
 The  so  called  powder/dust  is  the  work  of  burrowing  inverts  present  in  the  live  rocks  that  continiously  keep  boring  the  live  rocks  and  the  powder/dust  that  is  expelled  from  the  pores  is  nothing  but  calcium  carbonate.  And  yes  brushing  the  teeth  is  equally  important  because  it  is  also  made  up  of  the  same  substance!  (I  guess  a  dentist  has  to  talk  of  teeth   Chuckle  )
 Some  more  disadvantages  you  seem  to  have  missed  out:  
 We  often  dose  copper  based  medication  in  a  fish  only  tank  and  this  can  be  hazardous  if  used  in  a  system  with  UGF.
 The  UGF  has  a  property  of  trapping  all  waste  particles  under  the  plate  which  has  to  be  stripped  once  in  a  while  to  be  cleaned.  (God  help  you)
 The  aerobic  bacteria  that  colonise  the  substrate  should  be  constantly  supplied  with  oxygen  rich  water  and  suppose  for  'X'  reason  the  power  head  on  the  uplift  pipe  fails  -  the  aerobic  bacteria  will  start  to  die  and  result  in  a  dead  bacterial  bloom.
 It  is  very  important  that  the  tank  'looks'  what  it  'is'  and  often  with  a  UGF  one  tends  to  delay  the  water  changes  because  the  water  column  looks  crystal  clear  even  if  there  is  a  chemical  bomb  waiting  to  explode  down  under  the  substrate.
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

                                                   
aquascapes  wrote  (View  Post):                
@Murthy,
 very  good  post  there!
   
 The  so  called  powder/dust  is  the  work  of  burrowing  inverts  present  in  the  live  rocks  that  continiously  keep  boring  the  live  rocks  and  the  powder/dust  that  is  expelled  from  the  pores  is  nothing  but  calcium  carbonate.  .                

 
 :shock:Great  heavens!!!!!!Have  I  been  siphoning  out  useful  stuff?Calcium  carbonate  is  a  valuable  additive!All  along  I  thought  it  was  just  gunk!
 
 Yeah,Nauzer,the  disadvantage(power-cut  wallah)  I  missed  out  is  actually  the  most  important  one.But  for  those  who  are  still  stubborn  about  UG,this  disadvantage  could  be  side-stepped  if  a  UPS/inverter  can  be  used.(Like  I  said,I  happen  to  be  one  of  those  stubborn  ones  who  will  not  have  4+  inches  of  sand  without  some  sort  of  circulation  underneath)
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
:shock:Great  heavens!!!!!!Have  I  been  siphoning  out  useful  stuff?Calcium  carbonate  is  a  valuable  additive!All  along  I  thought  it  was  just  gunk!                

 Hey  doc,
 I'm  talking  about  the  'white'  powder  that  you  sometimes  accidently  see  being  sprayed  out  of  your  LR!  and  not  the  detritus  that  keep  depositing  on  the  LR.
 
                                                 
Quote:                
I  happen  to  be  one  of  those  stubborn  ones  who  will  not  have  4+  inches  of  sand  without  some  sort  of  circulation  underneath                

 No  sir,  the  DSB/plenum  system  would  not  recommend  any  movement  in  the  lowermost  zone  (which  is  the  an-aerobic  zone  for  obvious  reasons).  Like  I  said  it  is  very  important  to  analyse  what  we  are  using  and  why?  If  you  go  deeper  in  just  these  two  simple  questions  I'm  sure  you  will  find  your  answer!
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: UnderGravel Filter for MARINE AQUARIUM Reply with quote

 I  am  aware  of  how  the  plenum  works.Just  not  too  confident  that  a  beginner  like  me  can  handle  it.Am  I  just  paranoid?as  in,  are  the  chances  of  things  going  wrong  with  a  plenum  very  low?For  a  plenum  to  work  it  requires  live  sand.I  am  not  sure  if  the  live  sand  will  remain  "live"  by  the  time  it  reaches  my  tank(collection-packing-handling-transit  time,with  none  of  the  collectors  really  bothered  to  take  care).And  if  de-nitration  is  the  ultimate  aim  of  a  plenum,i'd  rather  do  water  changes  to  achieve  this.That  way  i'm  also  replacing  used  up  minerals/traces.
 
 I  guess  i'm  just  paranoid,since  many  have  used  the  plenum.Its  just  that  I  need  some  very  strong  arguements  in  favour  of  it!  Smile
 
 ....about  the  LR  powder,here  is  what  normally  I  do.Every  now  and  then  I  use  a  power  head  and  aim  the  jet  of  water  from  several  angles  onto  the  LR.This  produces  HUGE  amounts  of  "snow"(even  though  the  LR  looked  clean).Its  this  powder  that  I  allow  to  settle  at  the  bottom  of  my  bare  bottom  tank,and  siphon  out  during  water  changes.(i'm  sure  I'm  removing  detritus....but  also  calcium  carbonate?)
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