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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Discus Pairing
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Discus Pairing
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I  believe,  your  discus  hv  given  u  the  best  reward  a  fish  could  give  its  owner.
 Contrats!  And  Enjoy!
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scsriram
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:05 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
     Yep  the  eggs  got  eaten  yesterday.The  pair  is  quite  young  and  need  some  more  time  to  be  mature  and  more  responsible  I  guess.
 
 Sriram
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Thts  true.    This  is  the  case  of  many  cichlids.    Even  my  angels  did  the  same  first  time  and  its  not  rare  to  see  inexperienced  discus  eating  their  eggs.    But  the  best  thing  is  discus  makes  pairs  for  life.    So  they'll  go  for  the  next  try  and  the  next.....
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nag
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:41 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Beta:
 
 My  Super  SanMerah  and  Golden  Pigeon  have  paired  up  and  have  started  the  process  of  breeding...laid  eggs  a  couple  of  times  and  ate  it  up...
 
 As  they  both  are  "Solids";
 I'm  interested  to  know  the  resultant  offsprings...
 Here  are  they  both...
 
 
 
 
 
 How  would  the  babies  look;  going  by  the  general  rule  of  60%  male  and  40%  female  dominant  gene  sharing...
 Regards,


Last edited by nag on Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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ravi
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:41 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Nag,
 
 Please  see  How  To  Display  Images  in  Forum  Postings    http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=5167#5167
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beta
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:25 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Not  sure  Nag,  I  will  ask  Roy  and  get  back  to  you.
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Harshad
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:41 am Post subject: BDxRed turk Reply with quote

 Hi,
         I  have  a  female  blue  diamond(I  had  mailed  regarding  this  a  few  weeks  ago...)  and  a  red  turq.  Well,  the  BD  has  been  laying  eggs  every  4-5  days  now....but  the  red  turk  is  just  interested  in  eating  the  eggs....I  m  not  sure  the  red  turk  is  male  or  female  and  I  dont  even  think  its  mature  yet.  These  two  are  the  only  discus  in  a  120  L  planted  (pots)  tank.  I  am  not  providing  any  special  conditions  for  these  two...just  regular  water  changes.Their  other  tankmates  are  3  whiptails  (they  dont  trouble  the  discus)  My  question  is,  is  it  possible  for  a  mature  female  to  pair  with  an  immature  male(in  terms  of  breeding  age)?  and  how  do  I  know  if  the  red  turk  is  male  /  female?  Besides,  if  they  happen  to  breed  succesfully...  what  sort  of  coloration  can  I  expect?
 Thanks  in  advance,
 
 Harshad
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nag
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:38 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Beta:
 
 Can  you  pls  trace  back  the  ancestors  of  Super  SanMerah  and  Golden  Pigeon...
 
 Thanks  and  Regards,
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:55 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 San  Merah  :  
 Brilliant  Discus  -->  Ghost  Discus
 Ghost  Discus  x  Thai  Red  Brown  Discus  =  Virgin  Red
 Virgin  Red  x  Wild  Brown  Discus  F2  =  San  Merah
 
 Golden  Pigeon  :
 Brown  Discus  -->  Golden  Discus
 Thai  Red  Royal  Blue  Discus  -->  Pigeon  Blood  Discus
 Golden  Discus  x  Pigeon  Blood  Discus  =  Golden  Pigeon?
 
 Any  crossing  with  a  Pigeon  Blood  Discus  will  result  in  40-50%  of  offspring  with  Pigeon  Blood  Gene
 
 --  Source:  Exotic  Discus  of  the  World.
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nag
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:07 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Thanks  Beta...
 
 I  happened  to  speak  to  Wayne  and  here  are  his  opinion...
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
if  you  are  trying  to  acheive  something  then  it  doesn't  matter  what  they  make.  The  gene  makeup  of  the  fish  you  have,  i  take  it,  are  unknown  to  you  so  you  dont  know  what  you  will  get  apart  form  san  merahs  and  pigeons.
 Then  you  will  get  a  genetic  mixture  of  the  two  and  you  will  also  get  the  parents  of  the  san  merah  and  the  parents  of  the  pigeon  and  any  other  fish  that  are  in  there  blood  lines  back  2  generations.  and  then  you  will  get  mixtures  of  all  the  above.  All  these  are  possible  as  it  takes  a  long  time  to  breed  a  true  type  producing  fish.  
 
 Pigeons  are  not  good  to  breed  with  as  the  peppering  that  is  in  there  background  is  something  you  dont  want  to  have  coming  through  on  a  sanmerah  baby  for  example  or  any  other  fish                

 
 But  a  careful  selective  breeding  over  time  and  generation  may  lead  to  a  true  type  and  established  strain...
 
 Regards,
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:56 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Nag,
 I'd  defenitely  go  by  Wayne's  words.    Its  very  uncertain  to  persume  the  off-springs.    But  if  you  intend  to  get  a  stable  progency  then  crossing  them  back  to  any  of  wild  strains  would  be  a  good  idea.
 My  personal  view  is  since  both  pig.blood  and  san  merahs  themselves  are  selective/line  bred  they'd  lack  a  stable  gene  pool;  especially  pigeon  bloods.
 This  is  my  view  and  pros  correct  me  if  im  wrong.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:56 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I  thought  Pigeon  Bloods  would  have  the  more  stable  Gene  pool!
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venki25
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:28 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Wow  
 
 This  is  one  of  the  most  professional  thread  i've  seen.  Dazed  and  confused.  One  thing  is  clear  -  Discus  breeding  is  a  challenge  and  i  know  there  are  quite  a  bunch  of  pros  here  too...
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nag
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:34 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Beta:
 
 Had  a  converation  with  Rod  of  "Lewis  Discus",  here  are  his  opinion:
 
 Nag:  It  is  said  that  in  fish  breeding,  you'll  achieve  a  "Stable  Strain"  normally  in  F5  batch...and  anything  beyond  F5  will  lead  to  'Genetic  Deformation'  in  fish...  
 Is  this  true...??  

 
                                                 
Quote:                
Rod:
 I  guess  it  depends  on  what  you  are  trying  to  acheive  and  which  gene  you  are  trying  to  fix  as  related  to  how  many  generations  to  acheive  that  gene  in  pure  form.  
 
 For  example,  in  the  case  above  with  your  GP  and  SSM  discus  you  are  trying  to  breed,  lets  say  the  goal  is  a  Solid  Red  PB  which  I  bet  you  will  get  a  %  of  in  the  1st  generation.
 
 Lets  assume  the  pb  has  dominent  genes  for  PB  then  the  1st  generation  will  be  all  PB  based  but  not  dominent  as  they  will  all  carry  the  ressesive  gene  of  the  Red  Fish  so  when  you  breed  the  next  generation  a  %  will  be  "brown  red  based"  like  the  grandparent,  
 
 According  to  the  laws  of  inheritence  this  will  be  25%.  Along  with  this  a  further  50%  will  be  genetically  identical  to  the  parents,  that  is  looking  like  a  PB  but  having  a  red  brown  ressesive  gene.  But  the  good  part  is  25%  will  be  dominant  for  the  PB  gene.    
 
 Now  all  you  have  to  do  is  find  these  valuable  fish  as  they  will  look  identiical  to  the  50%  carrying  the  ressesive  gene.  
 
 The  only  way  is  to  breed  each  one  with  an  unrelated  discus  and  see  how  the  babies  look,  each  time  you  get  one  that  breeds  100%  PB  then  it  is  put  aside  until  you  have  a  nice  colony  of  dominant  PB's.  
 
 Breed  these  together  and  the  next  generation  will  be  100%  pure  PB  all  having  dominant  genes.  That  is  only  3  generation..............but  have  you  created  a  pure  strain!!  
 
 In  terms  of  one  gene  then  yes,  but  the  color  may  not  be  stabilized  to  call  it  a  strain  in  the  classic  sense.  Breeding  Red  Fish  is  more  of  an  accumulation  of  genes  for  red  color,  we  breed  the  reddest  fish  from  each  generation  and  gradually  the  strain  as  a  whole  will  increase  in  red  content  until  all  are  totally  red.  The  gene  doesn't  actually  turn  on  and  off  like  a  gene  for  PB.                  

 
 Nag:  Does  this  mean...do  I  cross  them  with  any  other  strain?  Say,  a  Red  Turq.  for  instance??  (And  watch  out  for  the  dominant  PB  gene??)  
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Rod:
 That's  right.  A  Red  Turk  would  be  great,  any  discus  really  as  long  as  it  is  not  a  dominant  PB.  
 
 Here  I've  considered  only  one  example,  there  really  are  a  lot  variations  which  needs  to  be  considered.  
 
 Once  you  have  the  F1  generation  then  that  will  tell  you  a  lot  about  the  genetic  makeup  of  the  parents  and  what  will  be  the  best  way  to  proceed  on  your  experiment.                  

 
 Nag:  when  we  speak  of  a  fish  like  Discus,  to  reach  F5  it  may  take  about  6+  years...isn't  it?
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Rod:
 This  could  take  3  generations  like  in  the  previous  example  or  perhaps  5  or  6  generations  maybe  more.  
 
 A  lot  depends  on  luck  and  your  selection  skills.  Other  strains  will  never  breed  true  like  the  snakeskin  discus,  none  to  date  has  bred  100%  snakeskins  in  a  batch,  so  5  generations  are  definately  in  question  here.  
 
 I  reacon  it  is  possible  to  breed  one  generation  in  under  a  year,  if  we  use  "fathers  to  daughter"  (better  fertilizing  skills  that  most  young  males)  instead  of  brother  to  sister.  There  is  no  reason  why  you  can't  turn  1  generation  over  in  8  months  or  even  less.                
 
 
 I  felt  this  is  a  great  piece  of  information  and  hence  the  publication...  Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:53 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Nag,
 Roy  is  of  the  opinion  that  you  will  get  Pigeon  bloods  and  Browns  from  this  crossing.
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