Joined: Dec 14, 2004 Posts: 542 Location: Bangalore and Palakkad
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
I tried lots of possibility. Initially I put them in a tank of their own and then I mixed them with a tank full of swordtails only, but still not luck. Now for the last try I have put them in a pond (9 feet X 5 feet ) with lots of foxtails and other plants at my home town in Kerala which contains lots of swordtails, Mollies and Guppy. Hoping for the best, but i am sure they are not going to breed. Madan had some big loaded females, not sure what happened to them. Even Adip had a pair but he too was not successful in breeding them. Lost hope on breeding them ..........
Here is an old pic. Some of you can post an updated pic. There is no doubt that these fishes bombed and that our breeders were taken for a royal ride. Â
Trevor, I am afraid the fish looks exactly like the ones sold in the mumbai market at approx 70-75 each. I actually wanted to see the pictures because a friend (commercial guy) got a whole bunch of them from Sg. and is selling them at the above rates.
Madan had some big loaded females, not sure what happened to them
Joined: Dec 17, 2003 Posts: 557 Location: Belgaum Karnataka
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
Andrew was our guest at Aquatica,as a goodwill gesture he should have given away these fishes to our members free of cost since he had already made money selling these strains and wanted to stop further breeding of these fishes.
Even though these fishes were available in a local LFs in Mumbai for Rs 75 each,Andrew sold them for about 1400 a pair which was absolute daylight robbery.By giving them free none of our members who bought these fishes would complain of non breeding of these fishes.
with warm regards
Joined: Jul 09, 2003 Posts: 3496 Location: Trivandrum, Kerala
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
A) Has anyone contacted Andrew about this? Give him a chance to respond before letting the accusations fly.
B) As a couple of people have posted, cross individual fish with proven swordtails of the opposite sex. Only the pair in a tank and observe them to see if there is any courtship, actual breeding etc.
You can't just add water and expect things to drop in your lap. Some things require a little bit of work. When I first bred albino swordtails nearly a decade ago, the strain I had was quite fickle and I was lucky to get 6 fry per drop. The fry were very delicate, too. I'd expect these fish to be very similar.
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
In this same forum I read that Andrew Soh was pioneer breeding the koi swordtail. Can anybody provide further information regarding the origin of this bicolor red and white albino swordtail? What do you know about it?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
It truely dissappoint me that you all, my follow friends in India are unable to breed the Swordtails I brought there
They are the best of the brood ...and I am very sure are even better those you can find in the LFS....trust me....
Sorry I took so long to come into the forum....I lost my password and couldn't get in so was out for so many months (a password given by Ravi..he!)
I would like to make clear certain views....
1) Nothing is for free...regardless whether I am invited to Bagalore....(though not forgetting I am most thankful for the respect and the great and unforgetable hospitality I received when I was there).....I was not paid for the days as in some other overseas seminars I was involved in the past. I am not calculative but please bear in mind that I am in the business.....so...I asked anyone would like to buy the swordtails (not by force)...and Madan gave me a number. But instead of only bringing the swordtails for sale...I also took a few small ones as gift for those who bought (because many were pretty small... Beside that, I gave Madan and the webmaster Ravi???... a few special ones as gifts 'Sapphires...including 'THE BLACK ALBINO SAPPHIRE'...first in the world!!!! Whether they gave or sell to someone else is not within my concern as that would be a gift from them to their friends.
Giving a New Friend in India .....the 'Black Albino' that has not been sold in any part of the world thus being the first to possess them beside myself......what kind of gesture do you guys think I am trying to show??? Go to the LFS and if you could find it...tell me and I will pay whatever you ask for....as long as they are not from my stock from Madan or Ravi....even now!!!
Anyway, I am invited to India this month to give a talk and workshop on Export packing pratices and disease-control...organised by your government for the exporters. Just for your information...it is on the 20to 23 and everyting is paid for...air-ticket, accomodation and interesting allowance.
2) Being a man of integrity, when I say 'It is not sterile, it shall not be'...simple as that and that is why I charge higher than the rest. If you are unable to breed them...it must be because of the way you treat them and the water quality in your area. Swordtails are not as easy as guppy or some other live-bearers.....and it is a strain that easily switch from a female to a male at any phase of their growing up....and can be in a month or in two months old or even 6 month old...so please...take out the fish and check whether the anal fin has turned into a fertility tube (from a rounded triangle to a sharp triangle"Gay" or a tube).......yes...many turn to gays....
Please, know the nature of the strain you are breeding. Just to enlight...I had an experience where I put 100 females with 50 males in a breeding tank. Three months down the road...I took them out to recheck and found that there were 80 males and 70 females. Six months down the road, I took them out again to check and to reshuffle my breeding area...and found that I only had 15 true females. The rest were males...gays...tomboys...so on and so forth( a high percentage were Gays...very bisexual indeed).
So my friends...."PLEASE DON'T FINGER- POINT" ....it saddens me...especially if it is coming from someone who doesn't even have a swordtail at home...not ethical at all....talking for fun don't cost money....but accusation...it is a totally different game....very painful..ya?
3) IT is good to cross with other swordtails...any would do...but must remember that the phenotype is recessive....so whether you cross it with a black eye or another albino of different strain...the koi characteristic will dissappear. Only in F2 or the F3 will this phenotypic expression appear. So, don't be dissappointed if nothing turns out in F1.
Madan, the big female should have fry...what happened?...or the 'Black Albino Sapphire' should....what happened?
4) Please do not be mistaken that I am just a guy who wrote a book 'Discus, The Naked Truth' for monetary gain. I have a vast knowledge, experience and have gone through many mishaps and experiments in fish culture....which include technology to mutate and sterilising fishes....but I am not going to tell you guys for free...as someone said..."free thing no complain".
Yes, I can sterilise fishes and thus can prevent them from breeding...but all those I took to India were my breeding stock....100%
On the side, what is wrong with sterilisation? In the IT world, you can have copyright and patent where no one can duplicate the same ...I am sure most of you guys are in that trade......but in fish...how can we ensure that we earn forever......the solution is.....patent in fish?.....not possible and cannot control......only solution ...STERILISATION!!
I am going to write my third book next month and hope to finish by end of year....and it is known as 'Discus, The Naked Truth Volume two' which will cover genetics and many advancements in Fish technology made simple....and it would not be for free... ..for sure.....how I wish it could be....am I wrong to charge?????
For the time being...I will just stop here and will give further comment after I receive replies to my post or further doubts.
Joined: Jun 29, 2003 Posts: 7087 Location: Bengaluru, India
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
The fish you gave me and Ravi are still with me. As for fry no luck yet.
The big female is still around with the male, I left them for a year - all the pairs - in their individual planted tanks, but I have not had any luck. They are now with other fish, and will go into their own tank shortly.
I should probably try feeding them live food, which I intend to.
Since you say they are not easy to breed, and I believe you when you say they were from your breeding stock, I'll wish for the best. I only hope they haven't turned male or gay as you say.
Thanks for stepping in and clearing things up around here, it was getting difficult for me to put down what you have said so clearly, given my practically nil experience with breeding.
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
I am surprised, Madan, that they all still cannot breed...could it be the airport x-raying baggage has something to do with it.......as far as I know...the black sapphire were females...and that huge female could easily give 160 fries.......hope they didn't turn to 'In-betweens'.....definitely not the huge female....unless her ovulation is over...
It is quite difficult to see result if you were to put them into community tank....not a fry in two years. Why? Not because they are not fertile...but because during that 1 to 3 hours of delivery...the other 'friends' and relatives in the tank will watch very closely and eat whatever comes out. If there is any leftover, the mother will eat them up after delivery because of hunger. By the next morning...no sign of fry....
Breeding of guppy is easier not because they are not affected by the same scenario...but baby-guppies are better swimmers and that those fry that survive through the ordeal are generally dark body tone or black...so can hide among the plants. As for the koi swordtail-fry...they stand not chance as they are white and RED...thus becoming very obvious and a easy target.....'a sitting duck'...and being Albinos...their sight is poorly hence swim slower.
You should take a 60mm x 60mm x 60mm planted tank with no fish at all. Make a box netting much smaller than the size of the males head and suspend it in the tank, Put a mature confirm pair inside....feed well...and wait for result. Don't feed live feed...you will kill them with disease.....and please...try not to buy those you find selling in the LFS to mix...you will regret in due time...believe me.....I am the earthly creator of that strain(God made it through me) and I know the history.
As to the state I am going....I heard it is some place sounded like Charkat or something with a 'C'.....hope it is Chennai...ha!ha!
They callled me on the phone to confirm...and I did without knowing the exact because I though India is India...any part is the same. Is there such a place that sounds like 'Charkat'???
I believe some of the forum members are exporters and they might be going there too...maybe they can enl;ighten...the actual name of the place?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
I live in Uruguay, South America, and I breed Lebistes, Swordtails, Platys and Endlers. My website Uruguay en El Acuarista http://www.bouzada.d2g.com is a non profitable project. What I wish to know is when the so called Koi swordtail was first sold in the hobby and who were the sellers or breeders. On May 2003 they were already for sale in Singapore imported from Japan.
I apologize because I didnÂ´t fill my profile, itÂ´s because in our uruguayan forum we just ask for name, password and e.mail.
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew
Went to your website and if not mistaken...you write Spanish.....ah! my book has been translated to Spanish known in Spanish as 'DOSCOS La verdad al desnudo'
Anyway, to answer your question, I did not see a Koi swordtail photo in your Album. Those red / white swordtail in your site are derivative from the Normal Red/white swordtail with black peppering. This fish was inthe market since the 90's.
The Koi swordtail was created in 1999 by me and is recessive and started selling in end of 2002 in small quantity...yes...mostly to Japan and China. The Koi-sword is very distinctly different from the Red/white swordtail because the red pattern or marking and the pure white body area are very well defined and distinct. I don't know how to post picture here but I think Madan did or was it Trevor? Maybe they can post some photos of that strain and you can see for yourself their colours are pure.....and not like the Red.white where the 'white' is milky and translucent.
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