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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Swordtails From Andrew
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Swordtails From Andrew
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fishmad_fakhruddin
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 one  question!!
 how  does  one  make  a  fish  sterile?
 
 fishmad_fakhruddin
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vkv
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 I  would  guess
 
 Radiation
 Hormones
 overfeeding  fatty  foods
 
 I  think  the  first  two  are  used  to  deliberately  sterilize  fish  for  commercial  purposes.
 
 Regards,
 Venkat
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sridharp77
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
    I  tried  lots  of  possibility.  Initially  I  put  them  in  a  tank  of  their  own  and  then  I  mixed  them  with  a  tank  full  of  swordtails  only,  but  still  not  luck.  Now  for  the  last  try  I  have  put  them  in  a  pond  (9  feet  X  5  feet  )  with  lots  of  foxtails  and  other  plants  at  my  home  town  in  Kerala  which  contains  lots  of  swordtails,  Mollies  and  Guppy.  Hoping  for  the  best,  but  i  am  sure  they  are  not  going  to  breed.  Madan  had  some  big  loaded  females,  not  sure  what  happened  to  them.  Even  Adip  had  a  pair  but  he  too  was  not  successful  in  breeding  them.  Lost  hope  on  breeding  them  ..........
 
 Regards,
 
 Sridhar.P
 
 
 Sridhar.P
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

                                                   
trevor  wrote  (View  Post):                
Here  is  an  old  pic.  Some  of  you  can  post  an  updated  pic.  There  is  no  doubt  that  these  fishes  bombed  and  that  our  breeders  were  taken  for  a  royal  ride.  Â Crying or Very sad                

 Trevor,  I  am  afraid  the  fish  looks  exactly  like  the  ones  sold  in  the  mumbai  market  at  approx  70-75  each.  I  actually  wanted  to  see  the  pictures  because  a  friend  (commercial  guy)  got  a  whole  bunch  of  them  from  Sg.  and  is  selling  them  at  the  above  rates.
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Madan  had  some  big  loaded  females,  not  sure  what  happened  to  them                

 trevor,  can  you  shed  some  light  on  that?
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shishirkamat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Hi,
 Andrew   was  our  guest  at  Aquatica,as  a  goodwill  gesture  he  should  have  given  away  these  fishes  to  our  members  free  of  cost  since  he  had  already  made  money  selling  these  strains  and  wanted  to  stop  further  breeding  of  these  fishes.
 Even  though  these  fishes  were  available  in  a  local  LFs  in  Mumbai  for  Rs  75  each,Andrew  sold  them  for  about  1400  a  pair  which  was  absolute  daylight  robbery.By  giving  them  free  none  of  our  members  who  bought  these  fishes  would  complain  of  non  breeding  of  these  fishes.
 with  warm  regards
 Shishir  kamat
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 A)  Has  anyone  contacted  Andrew  about  this?  Give  him  a  chance  to  respond  before  letting  the  accusations  fly.
 
 B)  As  a  couple  of  people  have  posted,  cross  individual  fish  with  proven  swordtails  of  the  opposite  sex.  Only  the  pair  in  a  tank  and  observe  them  to  see  if  there  is  any  courtship,  actual  breeding  etc.
 
 You  can't  just  add  water  and  expect  things  to  drop  in  your  lap.  Some  things  require  a  little  bit  of  work.  When  I  first  bred  albino  swordtails  nearly  a  decade  ago,  the  strain  I  had  was  quite  fickle  and  I  was  lucky  to  get  6  fry  per  drop.  The  fry  were  very  delicate,  too.  I'd  expect  these  fish  to  be  very  similar.
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karna
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 1400/-  for  a  pair  of  sword  tail  wholly  gosh   Shocked  
 
 I  got  my  pineapple  sword  for  40/-  bucks.  Are  these  very  special,  exotic  and  rare?
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Rosario
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Hello
 
 In  this  same  forum  I  read  that  Andrew  Soh  was  pioneer  breeding  the  koi  swordtail.   Can  anybody  provide  further  information  regarding  the  origin  of  this  bicolor  red  and  white  albino  swordtail?   What  do  you  know  about  it?
 
 Thank  you  very  much
 Regards
 Rosario
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trevor
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Rosario,  Why  don't  you  introduce  yourself  first.  And  you  could  fill  up  your  profile.  Makes  it  easier  and  more  friendly.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Andrew  is  now  out  of  the  fish  breeding  scene.
 
 He  developed  this  variety  of  swordtail  after  he  gave  up  his  discus  breeding  business.
 
 There  is  a  bit  of  information  about  these  swordtail  in  his  book  "Discus  the  Naked  Truth".
 
 PM  me  if  you  are  interested  in  a  copy  of  this  book.
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AndrewSoh
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Hi  guys,
 
 It  truely  dissappoint  me  that  you  all,  my  follow  friends  in  India  are  unable  to  breed  the  Swordtails  I  brought  there  Sad  
 
 They  are  the  best  of  the  brood  Thumb Up  ...and  I  am  very  sure  are  even  better  those  you  can  find  in  the  LFS....trust  me....
 
 Sorry  I  took  so  long  to  come  into  the  forum....I  lost  my  password  and  couldn't  get  in  so  was  out  for  so  many  months  (a  password  given  by  Ravi..he!)
 
 I  would  like  to  make  clear  certain  views....
 
 1)  Nothing  is  for  free...regardless  whether  I  am  invited  to  Bagalore....(though  not  forgetting  I  am  most  thankful  for  the  respect  and  the  great  and  unforgetable  hospitality  I  received  when  I  was  there).....I  was  not  paid  for  the  days  as  in  some  other  overseas  seminars  I  was  involved  in  the  past.  I  am  not  calculative  but  please  bear  in  mind  that  I  am  in  the  business.....so...I  asked  anyone  would  like  to  buy  the  swordtails  (not  by  force)...and  Madan  gave  me  a  number.  But  instead  of  only  bringing  the  swordtails  for  sale...I  also  took  a  few  small  ones  as  gift  for  those  who  bought  (because  many  were  pretty  small...  Beside  that,  I  gave  Madan  and  the  webmaster  Ravi???...  a  few  special  ones  as  gifts  'Sapphires...including  'THE  BLACK  ALBINO  SAPPHIRE'...first  in  the  world!!!!  Whether  they  gave  or  sell  to  someone  else  is  not  within  my  concern  as  that  would  be  a  gift  from  them  to  their  friends.  
 
 Giving  a  New  Friend  in  India  .....the  'Black  Albino'  that  has  not  been  sold  in  any  part  of  the  world  thus  being  the  first  to  possess  them  beside  myself......what  kind  of  gesture  do  you  guys  think  I  am  trying  to  show???  Go  to  the  LFS  and  if  you  could  find  it...tell  me  and  I  will  pay  whatever  you  ask  for....as  long  as  they  are  not  from  my  stock  from  Madan  or  Ravi....even  now!!!
 
 Anyway,  I  am  invited  to  India  this  month  to  give  a  talk  and  workshop  on  Export  packing  pratices  and  disease-control...organised  by  your  government  for  the  exporters.  Just  for  your  information...it  is  on  the  20to  23  and  everyting  is  paid  for...air-ticket,  accomodation  and  interesting  allowance.
 
 2)  Being  a  man  of  integrity,  when  I  say  'It  is  not  sterile,  it  shall  not  be'...simple  as  that  and  that  is  why  I  charge  higher  than  the  rest.  If  you  are  unable  to  breed  them...it  must  be  because  of  the  way  you  treat  them  and  the  water  quality  in  your  area.  Swordtails  are  not  as  easy  as  guppy  or  some  other  live-bearers.....and  it  is  a  strain  that  easily  switch  from  a  female  to  a  male  at  any  phase  of  their  growing  up....and  can  be  in  a  month  or  in  two  months  old  or  even  6  month  old...so  please...take  out  the  fish  and  check  whether  the  anal  fin  has  turned  into  a  fertility  tube  (from  a  rounded  triangle  to  a  sharp  triangle"Gay"  or  a  tube).......yes...many  turn  to  gays....
 
 Please,  know  the  nature  of  the  strain  you  are  breeding.  Just  to  enlight...I  had  an  experience  where  I  put  100  females  with  50  males  in  a  breeding  tank.  Three  months  down  the  road...I  took  them  out  to  recheck  and  found  that  there  were  80  males  and  70  females.  Six  months  down  the  road,  I  took  them  out  again  to  check  and  to  reshuffle  my  breeding  area...and  found  that  I  only  had  15  true  females.  The  rest  were  males...gays...tomboys...so  on  and  so  forth(  a  high  percentage  were  Gays...very  bisexual  indeed).
 
 So  my  friends...."PLEASE  DON'T  FINGER-  POINT"  Sad  ....it  saddens  me...especially  if  it  is  coming  from  someone  who  doesn't  even  have  a  swordtail  at  home...not  ethical  at  all....talking  for  fun  don't  cost  money....but  accusation...it  is  a  totally  different  game....very  painful..ya?
 
 3)  IT  is  good  to  cross  with  other  swordtails...any  would  do...but  must  remember  that  the  phenotype  is  recessive....so  whether  you  cross  it  with  a  black  eye  or  another  albino  of  different  strain...the  koi  characteristic  will  dissappear.  Only  in  F2  or  the  F3  will  this  phenotypic  expression  appear.  So,  don't  be  dissappointed  if  nothing  turns  out  in  F1.
 
 Madan,  the  big  female  should  have  fry...what  happened?...or  the  'Black  Albino  Sapphire'  should....what  happened?
 
 4)  Please  do  not  be  mistaken  that  I  am  just  a  guy  who  wrote  a  book  'Discus,  The  Naked  Truth'  for  monetary  gain.  I  have  a  vast  knowledge,  experience  and  have  gone  through  many  mishaps  and  experiments  in  fish  culture....which  include  technology  to  mutate  and  sterilising  fishes....but  I  am  not  going  to  tell  you  guys  for  free...as  someone  said..."free  thing  no  complain".
 
 Yes,  I  can  sterilise  fishes  and  thus  can  prevent  them  from  breeding...but  all  those  I  took  to  India  were  my  breeding  stock....100%
 
 On  the  side,  what  is  wrong  with  sterilisation?  In  the  IT  world,  you  can  have  copyright  and  patent  where  no  one  can  duplicate  the  same  ...I  am  sure  most  of  you  guys  are  in  that  trade......but  in  fish...how  can  we  ensure  that  we  earn  forever......the  solution  is.....patent  in  fish?.....not  possible  and  cannot  control......only  solution  ...STERILISATION!!  Thumbs Up  
 
 I  am  going  to  write  my  third  book  next  month  and  hope  to  finish  by  end  of  year....and  it  is  known  as  'Discus,  The  Naked  Truth  Volume  two'  which  will  cover  genetics  and  many  advancements  in  Fish  technology  made  simple....and  it  would  not  be  for  free...  Thumbs Up  ..for  sure.....how  I  wish  it  could  be....am  I  wrong  to  charge?????
 
 For  the  time  being...I  will  just  stop  here  and  will  give  further  comment  after  I  receive  replies  to  my  post  or  further  doubts.
 
 Thanks  and  take  care,  buddies,
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Madan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Hi  Andrew,
 
 The  fish  you  gave  me  and  Ravi  are  still  with  me.  As  for  fry  no  luck  yet.
 
 The  big  female  is  still  around  with  the  male,  I  left  them  for  a  year   -  all  the  pairs  -  in  their  individual  planted  tanks,  but  I  have  not  had  any  luck.  They  are  now  with  other  fish,  and  will  go  into  their  own  tank  shortly.
 
 I  should  probably  try  feeding  them  live  food,  which  I  intend  to.
 
 Since  you  say  they  are  not  easy  to  breed,  and  I  believe  you  when  you  say  they  were  from  your  breeding  stock,  I'll  wish  for  the  best.  I  only  hope  they  haven't  turned  male  or  gay  as  you  say.
 
 Thanks  for  stepping  in  and  clearing  things  up  around  here,  it  was  getting  difficult  for  me  to  put  down  what  you  have  said  so  clearly,  given  my  practically  nil  experience  with  breeding.
 
 Which  city  are  you  visiting  India  this  year?
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AndrewSoh
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 I  am  surprised,  Madan,  that  they  all  still  cannot  breed...could  it  be  the  airport  x-raying  baggage  has  something  to  do  with  it.......as  far  as  I  know...the  black  sapphire  were  females...and  that  huge  female  could  easily  give  160  fries.......hope  they  didn't  turn  to  'In-betweens'.....definitely  not  the  huge  female....unless  her  ovulation  is  over...
 
 It  is  quite  difficult  to  see  result  if  you  were  to  put  them  into  community  tank....not  a  fry  in  two  years.  Why?  Not  because  they  are  not  fertile...but  because  during  that  1  to  3  hours  of  delivery...the  other  'friends'  and  relatives  in  the  tank  will  watch  very  closely  and  eat  whatever  comes  out.  If  there  is  any  leftover,  the  mother  will  eat  them  up  after  delivery  because  of  hunger.  By  the  next  morning...no  sign  of  fry....
 
 Breeding  of  guppy  is  easier  not  because  they  are  not  affected  by  the  same  scenario...but  baby-guppies  are  better  swimmers  and  that  those  fry  that  survive  through  the  ordeal  are  generally  dark  body  tone  or  black...so  can  hide  among  the  plants.  As  for  the  koi  swordtail-fry...they  stand  not  chance  as  they  are  white  and  RED...thus  becoming  very  obvious  and  a  easy  target.....'a  sitting  duck'...and  being  Albinos...their  sight  is  poorly  hence  swim  slower.
 
 You  should  take  a  60mm  x  60mm  x  60mm  planted  tank  with  no  fish  at  all.  Make  a  box  netting  much  smaller  than  the  size  of  the  males  head  and  suspend  it  in  the  tank,  Put  a  mature  confirm  pair  inside....feed  well...and  wait  for  result.  Don't  feed  live  feed...you  will  kill  them  with  disease.....and  please...try  not  to  buy  those  you  find  selling  in  the  LFS  to  mix...you  will  regret  in  due  time...believe  me.....I  am  the  earthly  creator  of  that  strain(God  made  it  through  me)  and  I  know  the  history.
 
 As  to  the  state  I  am  going....I  heard  it  is  some  place  sounded  like  Charkat  or  something  with  a  'C'.....hope  it  is  Chennai...ha!ha!  
 
 They  callled  me  on  the  phone  to  confirm...and  I  did  without  knowing  the  exact  because  I  though  India  is  India...any  part  is  the  same.  Is  there  such  a  place  that  sounds  like  'Charkat'???
 
 I  believe  some  of  the  forum  members  are  exporters  and  they  might  be  going  there  too...maybe  they  can  enl;ighten...the  actual  name  of  the  place?
 
 Nice  to  hear  from  you,  Madan
 
 Thanks  Madan  and  take  care,
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Rosario
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Hi
 
 I  live  in  Uruguay,  South  America,  and  I  breed  Lebistes,  Swordtails,  Platys  and  Endlers.   My  website  Uruguay  en  El  Acuarista   http://www.bouzada.d2g.com  is  a  non  profitable  project.   What  I  wish  to  know  is  when  the  so  called  Koi  swordtail  was  first  sold  in  the  hobby  and  who  were  the  sellers  or  breeders.   On  May  2003  they  were  already  for  sale  in  Singapore  imported  from  Japan.  
 
 I  apologize  because  I  didn´t  fill  my  profile,  it´s  because  in  our  uruguayan  forum  we  just  ask  for  name,  password  and  e.mail.  
 
 Here  is  a  link  to  a  melanistic  albino  swordtail
 http://www.bouzada.d2g.com/Foto.asp?Id=71&Query=31%20&Indice=2
 
 
 Regards
 Rosario
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AndrewSoh
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Swordtails From Andrew Reply with quote

 Hello  Rosario,
 
 Went  to  your  website  and  if  not  mistaken...you  write  Spanish.....ah!  my  book  has  been  translated  to  Spanish  known  in  Spanish  as  'DOSCOS  La  verdad  al  desnudo'
 
 Anyway,  to  answer  your  question,  I  did  not  see  a  Koi  swordtail  photo  in  your  Album.  Those  red  /  white  swordtail  in  your  site  are  derivative  from  the  Normal  Red/white  swordtail  with  black  peppering.  This  fish  was  inthe  market  since  the  90's.
 
 The  Koi  swordtail  was  created  in  1999  by  me  and  is  recessive  and  started  selling  in  end  of  2002  in  small  quantity...yes...mostly  to  Japan  and  China.  The  Koi-sword  is  very  distinctly  different  from  the  Red/white  swordtail  because  the  red  pattern  or  marking  and  the  pure  white  body  area  are  very  well  defined  and  distinct.  I  don't  know  how  to  post  picture  here  but  I  think  Madan  did  or  was  it  Trevor?  Maybe  they  can  post  some  photos  of  that  strain  and  you  can  see  for  yourself  their  colours  are  pure.....and  not  like  the  Red.white  where  the  'white'  is  milky  and  translucent.
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