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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer
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FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer
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dashingoan
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 Hi  Nauzer,  
 Would  help  a  lot  if  this  tread  is  updated  with  some  new  information.
 
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 Now  friends  we  have  reached  a  stage  where  we  have  discussed  all  the  basic  types  of  skimmers  and  would  like  to  upgrade  our  knowledge  and  discuss  the  advanced  ones  as  well!  Since  the  thread’s  title  is  dedicated  to  the  beginners  â€“  I  would  like  to  stick  to  the  simple  language  and  not  go  into  the  heavy  scientific  jargon  that  often  baffles  the  new  comer  to  the  hobby.
 Before  we  discuss  about  them  lets  first  understand  the  logic  behind  them  branded  as  more  desirable  and  effective.  Let  me  put  it  in  simpler  terms  â€“  skimming,  rather  effective  skimming  depends  upon  the  following  principles:
 1.The  longer  the  water  remains  in  contact  with  the  air  â€“  the  better!  This  means  that  the  reaction  chamber  should  be  as  big/long  as  possible.
 2.The  overall  quantity  of  water  movement  through  the  skimmer  i.e.  the  overall  flow-through  rate.  Now,  this  does  not  necessarily  mean  that  higher  the  flow  rate  -  better  the  skimming  I  would  use  the  term  â€˜Correct  flow  rate’  instead  of  a  higher  flow  rate.
 3.The  more  air  injected  into  the  reaction  chamber  â€“  the  better  and  the  finer  the  air  bubbles  the  more  effective  skimming  it  results  in.
 4.Last  but  not  the  least  the  power  head  pumping  water  to  the  skimmer  should  necessarily  get  water  that  has  been  collected  from  the  surface  of  the  aquarium  â€“  this  makes  the  use  of  a  overflow  chamber  a  very  important  factor  (we  will  discuss  this  below  in  detail)
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 Now  lets  take  up  the  above  points  in  detail:
 First  let  me  start  off  with  the  meaning  of  the  word  'Protein  skimmer'  -  it  is  actually  a  mis-leading  term  as  mostly  there  is  negligible  amount  of  proteins  that  are  actually  collected  in  a  skimmer's  collection  cup.   Shocked  ??  yes,  the  so  called  proteins  are  nil  in  a  well  established  and  well  maintained  reef  tank  so,  what  is  it  that  we  see  in  our  collecting  cups?  Mostly,  DOC  (dissolved  organic  compounds)  these  DOCs  are  actually  organic  waste  produced  by  un-eaten  food,  decaying  organic  matter,  fish  waste,  etc.  these  organic  waste  matters  grossly  known  as  DOCs  are  bipolar  molecules  that  contain  atleast  one  atom  which  is  attracted  to  air  and  atleast  one  atom  that  is  attracted  to  water  so  they  tend  to  accumulate  more  at  the  surface/air-water  interface  (the  slimy  layer  on  the  surface  of  an  aquarium  is  mainly  DOCs.)  now,  if  the  DOCs  are  not  skimmed  off  the  surface  of  the  aquarium,  they  will  start  hindering  the  light  penetration  and  will  break  down  into  ammonia  and  nitrified  by  the  bio-bacteria  into  ultimately  nitrates  so  the  logic  is  to  remove  such  organic  waste  matters  at  the  source  which  will  put  less  pressure  on  the  biological  filtration.
 #1.  Longer  the  water  remains  in  contact  with  air  the  better  skimming!
 from  the  above  explaination  we  should  understand  that  since  the  DOCs  are  bi-polar  and  are  attracted  to  the  air-water  interface  they  will  be  effectively  skimmed  out  if  the  water  and  air  remain  in  contact  with  each  other  for  a  longer  period  of  time  in  the  reaction  chamber.
 2.The  overall  quantity  of  water  movement  through  the  skimmer
 this  is  again  relevant  to  the  above  point  when  we  say  correct  flow  rate  we  should  make  sure  that  if  we  are  using  a  ready  made  skimmer  we  should  see  a  water  mark  provided  by  the  company  that  has  manufactured  the  skimmer  and  should  use  a  power  head  that  is  capable  of  pumping  in  water  atleast  up  to  the  minimum  water  level  mark.  This  ensures  that  the  water  and  air  remain  in  contact  with  each  other  for  atleast  a  respectable  period  of  time.  Too  powerful  pump  will  only  ensure  that  the  flow  rate  increases  and  there  is  no  effective  skimming.  Less  powerful  pump  will  also  not  be  suitable  because  in  a  venturi  driven  skimmer  the  venturi  will  need  a  good  enough  pump  to  ensure  enough  injection  of  fine  air  bubbles.  (we  will  discuss  this  under  the  venturi  skimmers'  topic  -  soon!)
 3.The  more  air  injected  into  the  reaction  chamber  the  better  
 as  we  discussed  above  we  need  the  correct  powerhead  to  pump  in  water  for  maintaining  a  correct  flow  rate.  This  means  that  we  have  a  pump  that  takes  care  of  pumping  in  one  element  that  is  needed  for  skimming  -  water.  But,  what  about  the  other  element  -  air?  (unless  you  pressure  inject  air  into  the  reaction  chamber  there  is  nothing  that  helps  in  injecting  air  into  the  reaction  chamber)  here,  we  have  to  depend  upon  a  simple  yet  very  useful  device  known  as  the  air  venturi.  We  will  discuss  the  different  types  of  venturis  below  with  the  help  of  a  diagram  under  the  respectable  topic  so  I  need  not  go  into  the  details  here.  But,  sticking  to  the  subject  of  the  heading  I  would  say  that  air  and  water  should  be  injected  in  equal  proportions  to  ensure  a  fine  foam  like  column  in  the  reaction  chamber.  Here  I  would  like  to  say  that  if  you  inject  air  in  large  bubbles  it  will  take  up  a  larger  volume  in  the  reaction  chamber  and  hence  will  technically  result  in  lesser  air  being  injected  -  for  who  did  not  figure  it  out  lets  say  you  blow  air  into  a  large  baloon  till  it  inflates  to  the  fullest  now  take  smaller  baloons  and  fill  them  with  the  air  that  is  in  the  large  baloon  you  will  notice  that  the  volume  of  the  smaller  baloons  is  much  more  than  the  one  large  baloon  -  the  same  logic  applys  here  smaller/finer  air  bubbles  -  larger  the  volume  of  air  in  the  reaction  chamber.
 4)  Water  pumped  into  the  reaction  chamber  should  be  collected  from  the  surface:
 I  guess  discussing  all  the  above  points  you'd  have  figured  it  out  that  since  the  DOCs  are  attracted  to  the  air-water  interface  they  can  be  effectively  collected  and  skimmed  out  from  the  surface  of  the  tank.  So,  the  pump  that  pumps  in  water  up  the  reaction  chamber  should  necessarily  get  water  that  has  overflown  into  the  pump's  chamber  from  the  tank  (explained  with  the  help  of  a  diagram  -  comming  soon!)
 Stay  tuned!


Last edited by aquascapes on Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 As  you  can  see  in  the  below  picture  a  simple  air  venturi  will  have  a  limited  air  suction  and  what  ever  air  is  injected  via  the  venturi  will  be  sucked  in  an  array  of  some  largish  air  bubbles  thus  will  not  result  in  effective  skimming  as  the  bubbles  that  will  be  injected  into  the  reaction  chamber  will  be:
 1)Large  and  not  really  recommended  for  effective  skimming.
 2)Will  need  a  needle  valve  or  something  to  further  break  up  the  air  bubbles.
 3)With  high  capacity  pumps  for  large  sized  skimmers  the  water  will  tend  to  dominate  the  total  volume  in  the  reaction  chamber.  
 This  type  of  venturi  will  normally  accompany  any  power  head  and  is  good  enough  for  injecting  some  air  into  the  tank  for  aeration  and  is  also  used  for  the  internal  power  skimmers  discussed  above.
 
 
 
 Madan,  Thanks  a  lot  for  your  help.


Last edited by aquascapes on Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 Nauzer  that  url  you  posted  referred  to  a  sub-album  "  Simple  Air  Venturi  copy".  The  image  was  in  the  sub-album  "aquascapes"
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 What  we  really  are  interested  in  here  is  a  turbo  charged  version  of  the  simple  air  venturi  discussed  above  for  use  in  venturi  driven  skimmers  and  this  power,  rather  extra  power  can  be  achieved  with  a  little  modification  in  the  design  of  the  venturi.
 Shown  in  the  diagram  below  is  a  high  pressure  venturi.
 As  you  can  see  in  the  diagram  water  from  a  powerful  pump  is  pumped  into  a  very  narrow  opening  which  creates  a  vacuum  in  the  venturi  which  sucks  in  a  lot  of  air  and  the  vacuum  further  helps  in  breaking  up  the  big  air  bubbles  into  fine  foam  like  bubbles  (seen  in  the  picture  below)  which  results  in  excellent  skimming  abilities.  The  discharge  from  such  a  venturi  will  be  very  fine  foam  like  mix  of  air  and  water.
 
 
 


Last edited by aquascapes on Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 After  discussing  this  lets  see  the  Venturi  driven  skimmers  I  have  just  shown  the  two  basic  models  that  are  normally  available  to  the  hobbyists  locally.
 
 
 
 
 Both  these  skimmers  look  very  simple  and  are  easy  to  assemble/DIY  but,  the  most  important  part  is  getting  the  venturi  some  people  have  used  Beckett  injectors  for  their  own  large  sized  skimmers  and  have  found  it  to  be  effective  click  on  the  link  and  see  what  I  mean.
 Since,  we  have  discussed  the  skimmers  let’s  talk  about  how  to  install  them:
 The  first  one  of  course  is  an  in-sump  skimmer  so  it  does  not  need  further  explanation  however,  the  external  â€“  hang  on  type  if  used  it  is  really  important  that  the  skimmer  be  used  as  shown  in  the  diagrams  below:
 
 
 
 
 
 It  is  a  good  idea  to  install  the  hang  on  skimmer  to  the  over  flow  chamber  rather  than  installing  it  as  shown  in  the  first  picture  because  as  we  discussed  above  the  DOCs  will  be  attracted  to  the  surface  and  will  be  effectively  skimmed  off  if  the  water  in  the  skimmer  is  pumped  from  a  chamber  that  gets  water  overflown  from  the  main  tank.
 
 Now  suppose  you  want  to  use  the  above  HOB  skimmers  on  the  main  tank  as  some  might  not  have  the  'luxury'  of  a  sump.  I  would  suggest  the  following  modification  to  ensure  that  the  water  that  enters  the  reation  chamber  is  indeed  taken  from  the  surface:
 
 


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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 Simply  superb  sir...  This  thread  is  really  very  good  for  any  beginners.  Keep  up  good  work.  Thumb Up
 
 Anyway,  is  there  any  permanent  solution  to  not  changing  the  wooden  air  diffuser  of  an  internal  skimmer?
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coral_draw
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 How  long  can  we  run  fully  established  tank  without  skimmer  in  case  of  power  failure  or  suction  pump  failure.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 Hi  Bhaskar,
 
 IF  the  rest  of  your  aquarium  set  up,  maintenance,  feeding,  stocking,  water  changes,  water  flow  in  the  aquarium,  filtration,  are  good  and  sensibly  done,  it  is  a  big  IF  here,  then  even  with  the  skimmer  out  of  operation  for  a  few  days  to  a  week  you  will  not  have  any  major  problems.
 
 Bring  the  Skimmer  back  into  operation  after  a  few  days  and  it  will  start  to  get  rid  of  the  accumulated  contaminants  in  a  few  hours  to  a  day  and  restore  water  quality  quickly.
 
 BUT  Again  IF  you  are  relying  ONLY  on  the  Skimmer  to  cover  up  for  all  your  mistakes  and  stubbornness  with  the  aquarium  with  regard  to  the  above  aspects  as  a  whole,  then  even  a  5-6  hours  downtime  will  start  a  disaster.
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
How  long  can  we  run  fully  established  tank  without  skimmer  in  case  of  power  failure  or  suction  pump  failure.                

 I  agree  with  madan  only  a  little  caution  tips  during  that  phase  as  to  when  the  pump  fails  or  there  is  some  problem  with  the  skimmer  and  it  has  to  go  through  maintainence...
 #1   Decrease  the  input  of  food  (esp.  frozen/fresh  feeds)  to  put  less  pressure  on  the  system
 #2   Add  more  mechanical  filter  media  to  the  overflow  chamber  or  the  chamber  that  gets  water  overflowed  from  the  tank.
 #3   If  possible  decrease  the  fish  population  (this  is  only  I  repeat  ONLY  required  if  the  fish  population  is  putting  more  pressure  on  the  biological  filter.
 #4   increase  the  PWC  frequency
 I  maintain  my  reef  on  the  natural  system  so  I  rely  'majorly'  on  the  skimmer  and  LRs  for  effectively  maintaining  my  system  -  I  do  shut  off  the  skimmer  once  in  a  while  for  say  one  night  esp.  when  I  dose  iodide  to  the  tank  now,  this  is  the  time  I  clean  the  skimmer's  reaction  chamber  with  a  long  bottle  brush  and  see  that  all  the  slimy  deposits  on  the  walls  of  the  reaction  chamber  are  nicely  cleaned.
 I  will  be  further  discussing  difference  between  'wet'  and  'dry'  skimming.  Meantime,  if  you  guys  have  any  further  questions  about  skimming  or  skimmers  please  shoot  them  now!  Also,  if  you  want  a  particular  skimmer  to  be  discussed  please  let  me  know  NOW  as  we  are  going  over  to  the  next  topic  soon  -  'SUMPS'
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
if  you  guys  have  any  further  questions  about  skimming  or  skimmers  please  shoot  them  now!                

 Is  there  any  permanent  solution  to  not  changing  the  wooden  air  diffuser  of  an  internal  skimmer?
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Madan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

 Yes  there  is  a  permanent  solution.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Don't  use  the  skimmer  at  all.
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dashingoan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Yes  there  is  a  permanent  solution.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Don't  use  the  skimmer  at  all.                
 ROFL
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: FAQ on sump, refugium & skimmer Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Yes  there  is  a  permanent  solution.  
 Don't  use  the  skimmer  at  all.                

 
   Chuckle   Chuckle  hahahaaaa
 
 No  sir,  there  must  be  any  solution.
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