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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - fish death
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fish death
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westwood
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: fish death Reply with quote

 hai
   Iam  a  new  person  and  an  hobbyist  i  find  this  site  very  interesting  my  tank  size  is  4'1.5'1.5'  i  have  14kois  all  in  a  sudden  everything  died  this  is  the  second  time  it  haapend  after  water  chaange  on  about  3  to4  days  i  couldnt  find  the  exact  reason  i  noticed  all  the  fishes  were  vertical  in  position  before  they  died  how  to  find  the  exact  ph  of  the  water?areation  is  to  high  or  low
 please  help  me
 nirai
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discusboy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 hi,
 I  m  sorry  for  your  loss.  Sad  
   
 r  u  using  water  straight  from  the  tap???
 
 If  yes  then  u  should  add  "hypo"Sodium  thiosulphate  to  de  chlorinate  it..
 
 Secondly  there  might  be  a  ph  shock  ...  How  much  water  do  u  change??
 
 As  for  the  aeration  i  guess  u  need  it  to  be  high  as  kois  and  gold  fishes  need  a  little  more  aeration  then  other  fishes..
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westwood
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: fish death Reply with quote

 thanks  mitul  
 I  do  50%  water  change  i  think  it  might  be  ph  shock  how  to  over  come  it
 and  iam  using  water  straight  from  the  tap  hoiw  to  de  chlorinate  it?
 expecting  your  reply
 
                                                 
discusboy  wrote:                
hi,
 I  m  sorry  for  your  loss:(  
   
 r  u  using  water  straight  from  the  tap???
 
 If  yes  then  u  should  add  "hypo"Sodium  thiosulphate  to  de  chlorinate  it..
 
 Secondly  there  might  be  a  ph  shock  ...  How  much  water  do  u  change??
 
 As  for  the  aeration  i  guess  u  need  it  to  be  high  as  kois  and  gold  fishes  need  a  little  more  aeration  then  other  fishes..                
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venki25
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi
 
 I  think  your  tank  is  overstocked  -  of  course  commenting  without  knowing  the  sizes  of  the  fishes  is  not  correct.
 
 Did  the  fishes  exhibit  some  sort  of  choking,  like  wriggling  hard,  jumping  high  and  banging  on  the  hood  or  someting  like  that???  
 
 Let  us  know.
 
 Regards
 
 Venkatesh.
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doka
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 hi  venki25,
 
 Your  fishes  have  died  because  of  chlorine  in  the  tap  water.
 chlorine  is  put  by  water  suppliers  so  that  the  water  remains  germ-free  and  potable  for  us.
 
 But  for  fishes  it  is  poison  with  the  kind  of  concentrations  we  have.
 
 You  can  get  dechlorinators  in  any  fish  shop  or  you  can  also  get  
 HYPO  crystals  from  a  photo  studio.
 
 and  also  have  aeration  levels  high  ..did  u  get  the  koi's  from  a  local  fish  shop  .  If  that  is  the  casethen  PH  shock  death  are  a  little  less.
 
 Doka
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discusboy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:24 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi,
 U  can  de  chlorinate  the  water  by  adding  de  chlorinators..
 U  get  dechlorinating  liquid  at  any  fish  shop..
 U  get    branded  de  chlorinators  like  stress  coat  by  aquarium  pharma..
 But  they  are  expensive..
 The  best  is  to  add  some  hypo  during  water  changes..
 U  should  add  around  1  to  2  crystals  to  10  lts  of  water..Even  more  wont  harm  the  fishes..
 Doka  wrote..
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 and  also  have  aeration  levels  high  ..did  u  get  the  koi's  from  a  local  fish  shop  .  If  that  is  the  casethen  PH  shock  death  are  a  little  less.                  

 I  agree..  Smile  
 
 Bye..
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venki25
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Guys  &  Westwood
 
 I  strongly  don't  see  chlorine  to  be  the  killer.  Chlorine  kills  the  fishes  on  the  same  day  or  the  next  day  and  not  after  3  -4  days  as  Westwood  says.  Chlorine  does  not  stay  in  water  for    2-3  days.  PH  imbalance  too  cannot  be  such  a  killer  as  i  guess  Koi's  are  slightly  hardy.  If  too  PH  balance  was  a  fact,  there  could  have  been  few  fishes  that  would  have  survived.
 
 My  strong  presumption  is  ammonia  /  nitrites.  Probably  your  water  change  by  some  process  had  depleted  the  bio  bacteria  or  your  tank  was  overstocked  or  your  tank  is  not  cycled  well  -  more  like  a  new  tank  syndrome.  Mostcommon  mistake  we  do.
 
 Your  tank  /  fish  parameters  ,  since  how  many  days  the  tank  was  set  up,  filtration  information  could  let  us  conclude.
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westwood
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: fish death Reply with quote

 mr  venki
             Its  a  new  aquarium  two  months  old  i  have  an  powerfilter  which  works  24  hrs  and  areater.  probably  i  wouldnt  have  recycled  well  i  changed  50%water  only  per  week.
 regards  wwf
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discusboy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 venki  wrote..
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Guys  &  Westwood  
 
 Chlorine  kills  the  fishes  on  the  same  day  or  the  next  day  and  not  after  3  -4  days  as  Westwood  says.  Chlorine  does  not  stay  in  water  for  2-3  days.                

 
 Totally  agree..
   
 
 further  wrote..
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Probably  your  water  change  by  some  process  had  depleted  the  bio  bacteria  or  your  tank  was  overstocked  or  your  tank  is  not  cycled  well  -  more  like  a  new  tank  syndrome.                  

 
 But  do  not  agree  on  the  Ammonia/nitrite  thingy  as  he  already  has  a  power  filter  and  all  the  bio  bacteria  cannot  die  in  a  50%  WC  and  secondly  there  is  also  fresh  water  coming  in  which  would  dilute  the  ammonia  /nitrites  what  are  already  there  in  the  water..
 
 
 I  change  70%  water  everyday  in  all  of  my  7  fish  tanks  and  never  in  life  till  date  have  cycled  my  tank  before  stocking  just  fill  water  put  hypo  and  then  put  fish..  
 
 might  be  some  other  problem..  but  what  comes  to  mind  is  chlorine..
 
 
 (Disclaimer)..I  m  not  a  doctor  so  dont  take  my  word  for  it..  :lol:    :lol:  
 
 
 see  the  link  for  Effects  of  chlorine  on  fish  and  aquatic  life  ...
 
 http://www.h2ou.com/h2wtrqual.htm#Chlorine
 
 And  the  effects  of  nitrite/ammonia..
 
 http://www.petplace.com/Articles/artShow.asp?artID=1089
 
                     &
 
 http://www.h2ou.com/h2wtrqual.htm#Nitro
 
 
 wwf,
 think  about  the  symptoms  that  the  fishes  showed  and  try  to  determine  the  reason..
 
 
 Bye
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murthy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 sorry  about  the  dead  fish.....
 
   the  death  is  typical  of  an  ammonia/nitrite  spike.It  need  not  kill  the  fish  in  a  short  time.Those  that  survive  the  spike,already  have  damaged  gills,and  will  die  slowly.What  happens  is  ammonia/nitrite  accumulate  over  period.along  with  this  pH  also  drops.At  lower  pH,ammonia/nitrites  are  less  harmful.the  moment  a  water  change  is  done,pH  will  hit  the  roof,making  all  the  ammonia/nitrite  lethal  (even  if  only  half,due  to  water  change.At  higher  pH  nitrites  are  more  toxic.That  is  why  marine  tanks,and  african  cichlids  do  not  tolerate  even  small  quantities  of  nitrites/overcrowding...where-as  you  can  jam  pack  south  american  fish  in  a  low  pH  tank(as  long  as  the  pH  is  kept  low!!!!!!)
   
 Westwood,the  first  remedy  is  dont  keep  koi  in  aquaria...they  are  for  ponds.(or  very  large  aquaria,in  which  case  too,there  are  many  better  options)
 Also  a  power  filter  will  NOT  perform  biological  filtration(or  if  it  does,it  is  near  negligible).Power  filters  are  only  MECHANICAL  filters.look  for  other  options  such  as  hang  on  filters/undergravel  filters/canisters,if  you  can  afford  it....or  the  best  and  most  fun,make  your  own  filtration!!!Cheap,and  satisfying.IAH  has  some  GREAT  plans  on  home  made  filters,browse  around!!!
 Do  your  homework,and  you  will  never  lose  a  fish  again!!(  :lol:  thats  a  bit  too  optimistic...we  all  lose  fish!!)
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trevor
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject: Kois Reply with quote

 Sorry  about  the  dead  fish.
 Most  guys  who  keep  Koi's  in  Aquariums  ultimately  lose  them  in  one  go.
 
 For  one  they  grow  large  quickly  excrete  a  lot  and  if  their  is  a  power  shutdown/break  down  you  find  them  soon  on  the  top  gasping  for  breath.
 Maybe  worse  if  there  is  no  power  for  a  long  time.
 
 Forget  the  technical  details  and  causes.
 Koi's  are  suited  for  large  tanks  and  ponds  and  should  be  kept  in  them.
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:30 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 With  ideal  conditions  kois  can  grow  to  around  a  meter.    So  as  Trevor  said,  they  SHOULD  be  kept  in  ponds  or  bigger  tanks.    Another  problem  with  kois  are  they're  herbivores  and  most  of  the  herbivores  eat  a  lot  &  excrete  a  lot  which  means  their  Energy  conversion  ratio  is  very  low.    So  either  over  feeding  or  feeding  food  with  high  protien  content  would  easily  hike  up  ammonia/nitrate  build  ups.    If  you  can't  afford  for  a  bigger  tank  or  a  pond  the  next  best  thing  to  do  would  be  underfeeding  your  fish  with  less  protien  veggie  food  and  increasing  your  WC  schedules.
 When  it  comes  to  filtration  i've  seen  power-head-fitted-sponge-filters  do  a  good  job  in  koi  tanks.
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venki25
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:55 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 That's  a  lot  of  explanation  and  guys  right  said.  
 
 Too  large  fishes  for  a  not  so  large  tank  -  a  bad  choice  of  fish  for  the  tank  Westwood.  Unfortunately  many  of  us  are  duped  /  misguided  by  a  4'  tank  that  it's  a  large  tank.  
 
 Westwood  -  lesson  learnt  a  hard  way.  Fortunately  our  IAH  gurus  would  have  opened  your  eyes.  Have  a  happy  and  healthy  fishkeeping.
 
 Regards
 
 Venkatesh.
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Mumbai-discus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:23 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Good  inputs  brothers...Too  much  to  learn  here....
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discusboy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 good  info  ..
 
 Even  i  didnt  know  a  lot  of  things  ..
 
 I  think  i  learn  something  new  every  day  here  at  IAH...  Smile    Smile  
 
 good  input  by  murthy..never  knew  that..
 
 Thanks  for  letting  all  of  us  know..
 
 Bye...
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