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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - DIY Filter Sump
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DIY Filter Sump
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Oscar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:16 am Post subject: DIY Filter Sump Reply with quote

 I  recently  read  an  article  in  this  fourm  about  making  a  Filter  Sump.
 
 I  have  a  55  Gallon  Tank.  I  was  going  to  use  a  10  Gallon  tank  and  place  it  underneath  my  55.  The  Filter  Tank  would  have  four  compartments.  In  the  First  compartment  I  would  have  the  tube  from  the  underground  Filter  intact  and  in  the  first  compartment  I  would  use  either  lava  rocks,  Crushed  Bricks,  or  Large  natural  rocks,  in  the  second  compartment  I  would  use  medium  sized  white  pebbles,  in  the  third  I  would  use  some  type  of  either  layered  biosponge  or  sand.  Each  compartment  will  be  seperated  from  the  bottom  of  the  tank  by  a  underground  filteration  tray.
 
 I  purchased  a  2000LPH  or  526GPH  submersible  pump  to  submerge  into  the  fourth  compatment  to  send  the  water  back  into  the  tank.
 
 My  question  is  about  getting  the  water  to  the  Filter  Tank  Below.  Could  I  simply  syphon  the  water  through  a  hose  into  the  Underground  filter  or  will  it  have  to  be  forced  through  a  pump.
 
 Any  suggestions  would  be  appreciated.
 
 Thanks
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Lancelot
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:36 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 oscar,
 
 here  is  a  link  to  the  DIY  Sump  Filter  made  by  Venket:
 
 http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=25
 
 as  you  can  see  in  the  article,  you  need  a  powerhead  to  get  the  water  to  the  sump.    however,  venket  (according  to  the  article)  has  placed  his  filter  at  almost  the  same  level.
 
 you  can  use  a  powerhead  to  get  a  good  steady  flow.  if  both  the  inlet  powerhead  and  the  outlet  powerhead  are  of  the  same  capacity  /  power,  you  can  have  a  steady  flow.    
 
 if  you  use  the  siphon  method,  it  would  greatly  depend  on  the  flow  of  water  from  the  siphon  to  the  tank  and  the  rate  at  which  the  powerhead  puts  the  water  back  into  the  tank.    i  feel  that  this  should  not  be  a  problem,  but  the  different  layers  of  filteration  done  in  different  chambers  of  different  heights  can  cause  a  problem.
 
 if  i  were  you,  i  would  go  for  2  powerheads  of  the  same  capacity  /  power.  one  for  inlet  and  one  for  outlet.    the  siphon  may  create  a  problem  at  any  given  point  in  time.
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Oscar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:53 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 My  thoughts  exactly.  
 
 Also,  has  there  been  an  clarification  made  on  what  the  Blue  metal  chips  are  exactly?
 
 The  only  possibility  I  have  come  up  with  was  Vermeculite.
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Lancelot
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 3:01 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 oscar,
 
 no  clarifications  that  i  know  of  for  the  metal  chips.  however,  i  would  recommend  you  go  for  some  sponge  type  material.  for  your  final  layer.  sponge  is  used  to  trap  the  fine  particles  in  quite  a  lot  of  filters.
 lance
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beta
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:28 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Blue  metal  chips  =  Granite  chips  commonly  used  for  road  laying.
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venki25
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Oscar
 
 Siphon  for  ouflow  and  pump  to  pump  in  inlet  is  the  basic  concept.  I  will  post  some  DIY  links  for  this  concept.  But  try  to  add  a  trickle  to  the  inlet  into  the  sump.  This  is  the  best  part  on  a  sump  filter.
 
 Regards
 
 Venkatesh.
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Oscar
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:21 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I've  seen  a  Trickle  Filter  done  before  but  it  had  a  12"  or  so  piece  of  PVC  drilled  with  holes  trickling  over  bio  balls.  
 
 I  don't  guess  I  understand  the  concept  of  the  Trickle  inlet.  I  assume  this  will  be  answered  on  the  links.
 
 Thank  You  for  all  your  responses.    :lol:
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venki25
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:08 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Oscar
 
 The  concept  of  trickle  filter  is  when  water  is  dripped  into  a  surface  area  where  the  water  doesn't  accumulate,  beneficial  bacteria  tend  to  thrive  and  do  a  good  job  in  denitrifying.
 
 Trickle  filters  are  proven  to  be  most  successful  and  cost  a  lot  commercially.  Ideally  trickle  filter  comes  in  two  parts
 
 1.  The  outflow  box  and  2.  The  sump  with  pump  attached.
 
 Water  flows  out  of  the  outflow  box.  THe  outflow  box  is  a  a  two  part  box  supported  on  the  glass,  one  part  inside  the  water  and  the  second  part  outside.  On  the  outside  part  of  the  box,  there  is  a  hole  drilled  on  the  bottom  through  which  the  water  flows  to  the  sump.  The  water  flow  through  the  outflow  box  is  through  siphoning.  When  the  water  level  drops  below  a  certain  level  of  the  outflow,  water  does  not  flow  out.  THis  is  helpful  in  times  of  power  outages.  On  a  regular  cycle  the  water  flows  through  the  trickle  and  into  the  sump  where  it  is  pumped  back  to  the  tank  and  a  constant  level  is  maintained.
 
 For  a  trickle  arrangement,  the  water  is  made  to  drain  through  multiple  holes  -  like  the  spray  bar  of  a  canister  filter.  The  dripped  water  is  made  to  fall  on  a  thick  layer  of  sponge  or  felt,  which  absorbs  the  water  down  into  the  chamber.  The  sponge  /  felt  is  wet  on  the  outside  without  much  accumulation  of  water  which  is  absorbed  inside.  From  thereafter  the  water  is  made  to  pass  through  multiple  filter  media  and  then  into  sump  from  where  water  is  pumped  back  to  the  tank.
 
 On  this  concept,  lots  of  DIY  ideas  have  been  put  up  on  the  net.  It  is  all  a  matter  of  ingenuity  of  the  person.  I  badly  wanted  to  do  this  project,  but  i  had  to  drop  out  because  my  profession  involved  a  lot  of  travel  and  i  could  not  think  of  maintaining  it  efficiently.
 
 Please  see  below  links  for  DIY  ideas.  I  remember  seeing  a  commercial  DIY  setup  in  King  Vinnie's  gallery  -  ofther  person's  own  tank.  Great  one.
 
 Go  over  these  links  and  let  us  know  if  you  need  any  further  clarifications.
 
 http://www.kingvinnie.com/aquaria/diy/links_page.asp?cat=44
 
 http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/wetdry.htm
 
 Best  wishes  on  your  project  oscar.
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Lancelot
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 venki,
 
 that  actually  sounds  very  effective,  worth  a  try.
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Oscar
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I'm  not  sure  how  efficient  I  would  be  at  producing  the  acrylic  out  flow  box.  
 
 I  currently  have  a  two  chamber  whisper  filter.  I'm  thinking  this  could  be  modified  into  an  outflow  box.
 
 Any  suggestions?
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venki25
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hey  Oscar
 
 Do  not  break  your  head  in  creating  a  outflow  box.  If  somebody  is  traveling  to  the  US,  just  ask  someone  to  carry  this  for  you.  Ifyou  don't  have  this  option  -  relax.
 
 Alternate  an  idea  for  outflow  box.  All  we  need  is  a  mechanism  that  will  stop  water  outflow  in  case  there's  a  power  failure  thereby  stopping  inflow.  Under  this  scenario  water  will  keep  on  flowing  to  the  sump  and  flow  into  the  floor  exhausting  the  water  in  your  tank  and  killing  the  fishes.
 
 Let  us  think  on  a  water  flow  mechanism  through  a  set  ouf  tubes,  which  once  primed  takes  water  into  the  sump.  There  your  pump  pushes  water  out  to  the  tank.  If  on  the  outflow  tube  you,  mark  a  level  below  which  if  the  water  flow  needs  to  be  cut,  all  you  need  to  do  is  just  drill  a  hole,  when  the  hole  is  submerged  water  will  continue  to  flow,  if  there's  a  stop  in  inflow  and  water  level  goes  below  the  hole  the  water  outflow  will  stop  as  an  air  column  will  enter  the  hole  and  stop  water  flow.
 
 With  such  a  simple  mechanism  why  do  you  need  a  outflow  box??
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I  used  an  Aquaclear  hang  on  the  side  filter  as  an  outflow  box.  Drilled  a  hole  on  the  side  and  connected  a  tube  for  the  outflow.  When  the  tank  level  reaches  the  level  of  this  hole  during  a  power  outage  flow  stops.  
 When  power  resumes  again  the  Aquaclear  primes  the  unit  and  flow  begins  in  earnest  once  again.
 
 I  was  using  this  arrangement  for  continuous  water  changes  when  I  got  hit  with  green  water  on  first  using  MH  that  resulted  in  6  watts/gallon  for  a  planted  tank.
 Once  the  plants  took  over  I  did  not  have  to  use  this  unit  again.
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venki25
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Look  at  this  link.  Found  at  our  own  IAH.  Very  good  design.
 
 http://www.indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=random&cat=&pos=-1103
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Oscar
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 so  if  I  were  to  use  my  existing  hanging  filter  as  an  outflow  as  Madan  suggested,  could  i  turn  the  power  off  once  it  starts  syponing  and  will  it  continue  to  syphon.  I  think  it  should.  But  I  will  still  need  a  type  of  skimmer  right,  or  a  box  in  the  tank  itself.  If  I  don't  then  I  will  run  into  the  problem  of  it  syphoning  out  water  even  without  the  sump  running,  then  having  the  excess  water  going  into  the  floor.
 
 My  problem  would  be  I  don't  have  a  way  to  mount  a  box  beneath  the  current  hanging  filter.
 
 If  I  were  to  make  my  own  pre-filter  and  outflow  box,  would  i  have  to  use  the  chemical  to  "weld"  the  plexiglass  together.  Or  could  I  use  a  good  quality  silicone.  Or  is  it  rather  easy,  and  inexpensive  to  use  the  "weld"  method.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:31 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Oscar,  if  you  make  a  siphon  system,  at  the  inlet  to  the  sump  filter,  you  may  land  into  serious  trouble  in  case  of  a  power  failure.  Gravity  keeps  acting  without  power  too.
 So  ..i  would  say    dont  do  it..unless  you  plan  to  have  a  soleniod  valve.
 Puneet
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