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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
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Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
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Maxv
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 After  2  years  of  keeping  the  discus  in  BB  tank  i  as  getting  bored,  so  about  1  month  back  added  some  sand,  few  stones  and  couple  of  Amazon  plants  to  the  tank.  I  have  3  discus  now,  2  blue  snake  skin  (SS)  and  1  red  melon  (RM)  which  is  actually  reddish  orange  in  color.   
 
 Within  one  week  the  tank  came  alive  with  flirting  and  dancing  between  the  two  SS  discus.  The  RM  discus  was  acting  disinterested  in  the  activity  going  on,  but  after  about  a  week  suddenly  the  RM  started  chasing  off  smaller  SS  discus  and  started  dancing  with  the  larger  SS  which  seemed  like  a  male.  Then  last  week  the  RM  started  cleaning  the  plastic  end  cap  on  the  heater,  next  day  the  fish  started  shivering  allover,  then  i  saw  it  lay  few  eggs  on  the  heater  cap  with  the  larger  SS  in  attendance.  The  eggs  were  immediately  eaten  by  both  of  these  discus.  
 
 Next  day  i  bought  a  2"  PVC  pipe  kept  it  in  the  tank  and  both  the  fish  started  cleaning  the  PVC  pipe  this  was  about  mid  last  week,  then  last  Sunday  evening  the  RM  laid  about  60-70  eggs  and  the  large  SS  discus  was  participating  to  fertilize  the  eggs.  Both  of  them  were  guarding  the  eggs  and  after  24  hours  about  4-5  eggs  had  turned  white  rest  were  fine,  but  by  yesterday  morning  all  the  eggs  disappeared.
 
 Meanwhile  yesterday  evening  the  smaller  SS  started  shivering  and  it  was  trying  to  attract  the  male,  after  some  reluctance  the  male  went  with  the  smaller  SS  and  it  started  laying  eggs  on  a  small  stone  at  the  other  end  of  the  tank,  i  did  not  see  the  male  fertilizing  the  eggs,  all  eggs  were  then  eaten  by  both  of  them.
 
 I  am  planning  to  get  another  tank  and  remove  one  of  the  females.  What  will  be  the  best  option,  breed  the  blue  SS  female  with  blue  SS  male?  or  breed  the  RM  female  with  blue  SS  male?  Any  idea  what  color  offspring  i  will  get  in  each  case?
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justshan21
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 well  maxv  breeding  any  of  the  two  females  will  be  fine  but  IMO  breed  the  two  snake  skin  as  u  will  be  sure  about  the  strain  but  then  again  the  world  did  not  progress  without  experimenting   Rock On
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Deepak_Brid
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 If  you  don't  intend  to  breed  them  commercially  to  get  a  new  strain  &  ultimately  exchange/sell,  there's  no  point  rearing  the  cross  of  RM  &  SS  just  to  see  then  grow  into  something  not  so  appealing  (may  be).
 
 Given  an  option  of  selective  breeding  -  I'd  go  ahead  with  Snakeskin  Pair.  You  know  for  sure  what  you're  going  to  get  -  provided  they  breed  true  or  don't  throwback.
 
 Not  to  mention  that  if  you've  picked  the  SS  from  the  same  person,  you  could  just  end  up  inbreeding  which  one  would  otherwise  avoid,  moreover  if  the  pair  was  bought  with  the  sole  purpose  of  breeding.  Well,  I'm  not  sure  how  much  of  difference  that  would  make  to  the  offspring’s,  but  this  is  certainly  a  better  choice.   Beta  can  you  please  shed  some  light  on  this.
 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 As  describe  in  the  post  you  have  now  two  confirmed  Female  ,  Red  Melon  &  Snake  Skin  ,  but  your  Male  is  still  not  confirm  (  need  to  be  working  Male  )  .  
 
 I  suggest  you  arrange  a  seperate  tank  of   18  x18  x  18  size   for  breeding  purpose  ,  keep  it  bare  bottom  (  no  sand,  plants  etc  )  .  put  one  PVC  pipe  in  the  middle   and  ,  if  you  wish  you  can  put  a  small  sponge  filter  (  simple  air  stone  is  best  )  .Keep  the  Aeration  in  the  tank  to  minimium  and   after  two  days  put  the  confirm  Snake  Skin  Female  &  Snake  Skin  Male  (  which  still  need  to  prove  )  .  
 
 Don't  get  disappointed  if  this  pair  eat  few  spawn  ,  give  the  pair  time  to  learn  
 they  will  succeed  .  Don't  disturb  them  and  give  them  good  water  condition  and  feed  .  One  day  you  will  get  result  (  provided  Male  should  be  fertile  )  
 
 With  Snake  skin  you  may  get  few  turqoise  also  .
 
 It  is  better  to   clean  the  breeding  pairs  internally  &  externall  to  get  healthy  babies  before  breeding  .  
 
 Regards
 Shiva  Nair
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Maxv
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 @  Shannon,  @  Deepak,
 
 I  will  try  the  SS  pair  first  lets  see  if  it  works  out.
 
 @  Shiva   
 
 "It  is  better  to   clean  the  breeding  pairs  internally  &  externall  to  get  healthy  babies  before  breeding"  
 
 What  do  you  mean  by  clean  them  internally  &  external?   What  is  to  be  done?
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Seetharam
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 IMO  go  for  the  SS  pair.  Thanks.
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raindeepak4u
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 All  the  Best  max..............  Cheer
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Discusolic
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
@  Shiva     
 
 "It  is  better  to   clean  the  breeding  pairs  internally  &  externall  to  get  healthy  babies  before  breeding"  
 
 What  do  you  mean  by  clean  them  internally  &  external?   What  is  to  be  done?                

 
 This  is  specially   for  the  breeders  who  handles   many  breeding  pairs  of  different  blood  line  and  strain  .  This  is  basically  to  prevent  the  parents  and  the  frys  from  attack  from  any  parasites   during  the  whole  breeding  process  and  to  get  the  healthy  babies  .
 
 Since  you  have  only  one  pair  there  is  nothing  to  worry  ,
 
 This  method  is  recommended  by  my  Guru  Mr  Andrew  Soh  and  I  follow  it  regularly  .  
 
 
 1)  Once  you  get  a  confirm  pair  you  transfers  the  pair  in  to  the  seperate  tank  and  it  will  take  some  time  for  the  pair  to  spawn  and  this  is  the  time  you  need  to  carry  the  treatment  .
 
 2)  Do  treatment  with  Potassium  Permanganate  for  3  days  on  day  1  ,  Day  4  &  day  7  
         complete  this  treatment  on  day  8  with   100%  WC  .  (  3  days  x  24  hrs  )  
 
 3)  During  these  8  days  treatment  feed  the  discus  with  food  incorporated  with  Metronidazole  
      @  1.2  gm  to     @  1.5  gm  for  100  gm  feed  .
 
 4)  After  completion  of  PP  treatment  on  8th  days  continue  the  treatment  with  Metronidozole  in  Feed  &  also  in  water  for  another  5  days  .  Doasge  of  Metro  in  water  is  @  1.5  gm  to  100  ltr  .
 Disolve  the  Metronidazole  in  luke  warm  water  before  adding  to  the  tank  .  Do  regular  WC  and  redose  the  metro.
 
 5)  If  you  have  problem  during  breeding  producing   frys  with  split  fins  ,  deforms  or  frequent  body  darkening  ,  Antibiotic  treatment  is  also  required  after  the  completion  of  treatment  with  Metro  (ie  after  13  days  ).
 
 
 If  you  clean  the  pair  before   breeding  you  will  get  healthy  babies  and  you  may  not  have  problem  with  the  frys  in  their  latter  growth  stage  .
 
 The  frequency  of  this  treatment  is  depend  on  the  no  of  breeding  pairs  ,  frequency  of  spawn  and  the  problems  you  face   during  the  different  breeding  stage  and  growth  of  the  babies  .
 
 Regards  
 Shiva  Nair  
 9323573147
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Nanu
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
This  is  specially   for  the  breeders  who  handles   many  breeding  pairs  of  different  blood  line  and  strain  .  This  is  basically  to  prevent  the  parents  and  the  frys  from  attack  from  any  parasites   during  the  whole  breeding  process  and  to  get  the  healthy  babies  .
 
 Since  you  have  only  one  pair  there  is  nothing  to  worry  ,
 
 This  method  is  recommended  by  my  Guru  Mr  Andrew  Soh  and  I  follow  it  regularly  .
 
 
 1)  Once  you  get  a  confirm  pair  you  transfers  the  pair  in  to  the  seperate  tank  and  it  will  take  some  time  for  the  pair  to  spawn  and  this  is  the  time  you  need  to  carry  the  treatment  .
 
 2)  Do  treatment  with  Potassium  Permanganate  for  3  days  on  day  1  ,  Day  4  &  day  7
       complete  this  treatment  on  day  8  with   100%  WC  .  (  3  days  x  24  hrs  )
 
 3)  During  these  8  days  treatment  feed  the  discus  with  food  incorporated  with  Metronidazole
    @  1.2  gm  to     @  1.5  gm  for  100  gm  feed  .
 
 4)  After  completion  of  PP  treatment  on  8th  days  continue  the  treatment  with  Metronidozole  in  Feed  &  also  in  water  for  another  5  days  .  Doasge  of  Metro  in  water  is  @  1.5  gm  to  100  ltr  .
 Disolve  the  Metronidazole  in  luke  warm  water  before  adding  to  the  tank  .  Do  regular  WC  and  redose  the  metro.
 
 5)  If  you  have  problem  during  breeding  producing   frys  with  split  fins  ,  deforms  or  frequent  body  darkening  ,  Antibiotic  treatment  is  also  required  after  the  completion  of  treatment  with  Metro  (ie  after  13  days  ).
 
 
 If  you  clean  the  pair  before   breeding  you  will  get  healthy  babies  and  you  may  not  have  problem  with  the  frys  in  their  latter  growth  stage  .
 
 The  frequency  of  this  treatment  is  depend  on  the  no  of  breeding  pairs  ,  frequency  of  spawn  and  the  problems  you  face   during  the  different  breeding  stage  and  growth  of  the  babies  .
                 

 
 Thank  you  Shiva  Great  post  should  help  us  all...
 Cheers..,
 
 PS.  Any  more  advise  on  EESOB?And  eggs  catch  fungus/turning  white  by  1-2days..?
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Discusolic
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
PS.  Any  more  advise  on  EESOB?And  eggs  catch  fungus/turning  white  by  1-2days..?                

 
 To  prevent  fungus  use  metheylen  blue  3  hrs  after  female  lays  the  eggs  .
 
   There  are  various  reasons  for  Eggs  turnning  white  .  few  are  as  below  .
 
 1)  Infertile  male  .
 2)  Water  hardness  ,  water  too  hard  for  the  sperms  to  penetrate  in  to  the  eggs  .  
 3)Water  Temp  :  Water  temp  is  too  high  ,  sperms  dies  .
 4)  Male  is  fertile  but  after  the  female  lays  the  eggs  ,  Male  has  not  fertilise  the  eggs  ,  Male  is  lazy  ,  or  male  is  not  in  ready  to  fertilise  the  eggs  .
 5)  Pair  is  not  confirmed  ,  both  are  female  .
 
 
 
 
 Regards  
 Shiva  Nair  
 9323573147
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Nanu
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 Can  you  please  add  a  bit  more  on  the  following...
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
1)  Infertile  male  .                  

 Possibly,  or  maybe  he  is  a  bit  young  now  about  1  year  old  at  the  time  of  last  spawn.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
2)  Water  hardness  ,  water  too  hard  for  the  sperms  to  penetrate  in  to  the  eggs  .                   

 Don't  really  know  my  water  hardness,  but  will  get  it  checked.  What  is  the  ideal  can  you  please  tell  us..
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
3)Water  Temp  :  Water  temp  is  too  high  ,  sperms  dies  .                  

 What  is  the  ideal  temp,  i  usually  kee  mine  close  to  30-32'c
 
 Thanks  a  lot..
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Discusolic
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 Discus  breed  at  soft  water  with  KH  5,  GH  6  max   .  if  you  are  sure  that  your  water  is  not  hard   then  you  are  nothing  to  worry  .  If  water  is  hard  hatching  will  be  problem  .
 
 Temp  around  28  degree  C  to  29  Degree  C  is  good  for  breeding  .  
 
 Normally  Heckel  discus  are   kept  at  higher  temp  of  31degree  .
 
 
 Regards  
 Shiva  Nair
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nature_lover
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 Hi  Nanu,
 
 I  would  suggest  a  temperature  of  28deg.  This  is  going  to  help  you  elevate  temperatures  to  30  and  32deg  if  you  need  to  medicate  or  cure  discus.  By  already  keeping  them  at  32,  you  will  need  to  raise  the  temperatures  even  higher  which  might  do  more  harm  than  good.
 
 Discus  experts,  please  advise.
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Discusolic
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 Nanu  ,  
 
 Discus  always  at  32  deg  C  is  dangerious  ,  just  imagine  if  your  heater  fails  to  cut  off  at  32  deg  what  will  be  the  result  .  Yes  during  de-flagellating  increasing  the  water  temp  is  advisible  but  not  always  .   
 
 Regards  
 Shiva  Nair
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Maxv
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do? Reply with quote

 @  Shiva     
 
 2)  Do  treatment  with  Potassium  Permanganate  for  3  days  on  day  1  ,  Day  4  &  day  7  
         complete  this  treatment  on  day  8  with   100%  WC  .  (  3  days  x  24  hrs  )  
 
 3)  During  these  8  days  treatment  feed  the  discus  with  food  incorporated  with  Metronidazole  
      @  1.2  gm  to     @  1.5  gm  for  100  gm  feed  .
 
 4)  After  completion  of  PP  treatment  on  8th  days  continue  the  treatment  with  Metronidozole  in  Feed  &  also  in  water  for  another  5  days  .  Doasge  of  Metro  in  water  is  @  1.5  gm  to  100  ltr  .
 Disolve  the  Metronidazole  in  luke  warm  water  before  adding  to  the  tank  .  Do  regular  WC  and  redose  the  metro.
 
 The  Metro   treatment  i  had  done  couple  of  times  last  year,  i  have  not  done  the  Potassium  Permanganate  treatment  so  far,  how  much  PP  per  100  liters?   is  there  any  specific  temperature  i  should  keep?   The  current  temperature  setting  is  28  deg  C.
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