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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Poor man's reef
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Poor man's reef
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kochu
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Joined: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 103
Location: Tanzania

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: yes Reply with quote

 Remove  the  nutrients  and  sunlight  will  be  the  best  choice.  Cheap  and  abundant.  As  they  say  Solatue  filters  out  heat.
 anyway  I  will  do  so  in  my  mega  tank.
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aquascapes
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 2753
Location: Surat, Gujarat

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
1.What  kind  of  lighting  should  I  go  in  for?I  want  to  keep  the  easiest,hardiest  of  button  polyps,sea  mats.I  dont  want  to  use  metal  halides  for  its  heat.(and  electricity  consumption).....so  what  are  the  options  in  power  compact/fluorescent  lights?(for  instance,what  does  azoo  offer?)                  

 @murthy,
 I  think  reading  this
 should  give  you  a  very  gross  idea  of  the  reef  lighting  (economically)
 read  all  the  7  pages  and  you  will  get  an  idea  of  what  to  look  for  in  reef  lighting.
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murthy
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Joined: Feb 20, 2004
Posts: 694
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:15 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Very Happy  Thanks  for  the  link,Nauzer!I've  been  through  stan  and  debbie  hauter's  site  several  times.I  have(and  always  had)  very  strong  objection  to  "experts"  describing  light  requirement  of  a  tank  as  a  function  of  its  volume.If  the  total  volume  of  my  tank  and  sump  is  200  g,am  I  supposed  to  use  600-1000  w(3-5  w  per  gallon  rule)  of  light????  Surprised  .Obviously  not.We  dont  count  the  sump,because  it  does  not  hold  any  inverts.By  the  same  logic,what  if  I  intend  to  keep  coral  only  in  one  half  of  my  display?(display  tank  volume=120g)Do  I  still  need  to  burn  360-600w  of  light??Why  can't  I  just  use  half  the  amount  of  light  over  the  zones  that  HAVE  corals!!Lets  just  assume  that  the  display  is  a  60g  tank,and  the  other  half  is  a  FOWLR  tank!
 
 I've  made  this  arguement  with  planted  tank  guys.None  could  come  up  with  a  convincing  answer(other  than  that  a  planted  tank  should  be  filled  to  full,for  algal  reasons)....is  there  a  rule  that  a  reef  tank  should  be  FULL  of  coral?why  not  scape  the  tank  to  have  some  nice  zooanthids  at  one  end.....keep  the  other  end  open  water.That  way  we  can  jam  all  the  lights  over  only  the  zooanthids!Half  the  watts  required  for  a  full  tank!
 
   Smile  Its  high  time  to  scrap  that  "watts  per  gallon"  nonsense!
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rahulk
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 7:39 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Murthy,
                   I  agree  with  you  on  this,  The  factor  for  the  lighting  wattage  should  be  directly  propotional  to  the  height  of  the  water  column.
 ie:  more  the  depth  of  water  less  light  will  reach  the  bottom,  thus  a  taller  tank  requires  more  light.
 
 also  one  more  thing  to  consider  is  the  colour  of  light  since  different  colour  penetrate  to  different  levels,  I  thing  blue  light  penetrates  the  farthest.
 
 The  basic  thumb  rule  of  watts  per  gallon  of  water  need  not  be  followed,  its  just  a  generalization.
 
 Rahul.
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 The  wpg  rule,  rather  like  the  inches  per  gallon  rule,  is  for  the  benefit  of  novice/casual  aquarists  who  do  not  fiddle  around  with  their  tanks  too  much.  In  that  respect,  it  does  an  admirable  job.
 
 Once  you  delve  deeper  into  the  subject,  you  are  welcome  to  experiment  and  find  solutions  that  suit  you.  However,  it  is  important  to  remember  that  such  setups  are  very  tank  specific  and  what  works  for  you  will  not  work  for  everyone  else  Smile
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murthy
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:54 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
rahulk  wrote:                
Hi  Murthy,
                   I  agree  with  you  on  this,  The  factor  for  the  lighting  wattage  should  be  directly  propotional  to  the  height  of  the  water  column.
 
 Rahul.                

 
 Yes...thats  close  to  what  I'm  thinking,Rahulk....but  to  be  more  specific:"The  factor  for  the  lighting  wattage  should  be  directly  propotional  to  the  height  of  the  water  column...above  the  specimen  using  the  light"
 
 Which  should  mean,if  I  can  manage  my  aquascaping  to  accomodate  invertebrates/plants  closer  to  the  water  surface,and  on  one  side  of  the  tank,I  dont  see  why  much  lower  wattages  will  not  work!
 
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
However,  it  is  important  to  remember  that  such  setups  are  very  tank  specific  and  what  works  for  you  will  not  work  for  everyone  else
 
                 

 Why  would  it  not  work  for  everyone  else?(a  sincere  question)may  not  be  100%  replicable.....but  a  replica  set  up  elsewhere  has  little  reason  to  fail  if  the  original  works.And  it  is  for  a  novice  like  me  that  a  more  logical  thumb  of  rule  helps.  Smile
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:19 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 The  simple  answer  to  your  question,  Murthy,  is  the  sheer  variance  in  light  bulbs  (intensity,  colour  temperature,  PAR  values,)  reflectors  and  corals,  not  to  mention  water  quality.  
 
 <Long  winded  explanation>
 
 While  I  do  not  dispute  the  fact  that  the  wpg  rule  is  flawed,  think  about  this;  when  John  Doe  is  contemplating  setting  up  a  reef  tank,  what  does  he  want  to  hear?  5  wpg  or  a  20  page  thesis  on  lighting?
 
 If  you  look  for  something  other  than  the  wpg  rule,  you  have  to  factor  in  colour  temperature  (which  varies  a  lot  between  manufacturers  as  well  as  amongst  bulbs),  type  of  bulb,  type  of  lifestock,  etc.
 
 The  proper  way  to  go  about  it  is  to  measure  the  acutal  number  of  photons  hitting  the  surface  of  the  coral.  One  way  to  do  this  is  with  Photosynthetically  Active  Radiation  (PAR),  which  is  the  amount  of  incident  radiation  that  is  actually  needed  by  the  zooxanthellae.  Experiments  have  shown  that  different  bulbs  of  the  same  intensity  have  different  PAR  values.  Unfortunately,  PAR  meters  are  very  expensive  and  a  PITB  to  calibrate,  so  it  is  not  for  everyone.  
 
 You  can  also  use  a  combination  of  colour  temperature  and  intensity  to  calculate  the  amount  of  light  required,  however,  many  manufacturer  claims  of  the  above  are  rather  optimistic  Wink
 
 Another  reason  to  consider  is  the  quality  of  reflector  used.  I  read  an  experiment  somewhere  where  they  were  able  to  get  as  much  usable  light  out  of  a  150W  bulb  using  a  killer  reflector  than  a  400W  bulb  using  a  standard  reflector.  How  many  aquarists  (want  to)  think  about  reflectors?
 
 What  the  wpg  rule  does  is  make  sure  a  certain  minimum  amount  of  light  reaches  your  livestock.  If  you  have  too  much  light,  the  zooxanthellae  will  stop  photosynthesizing  after  a  point,  too  little  light  and  they  will  die.
 
 </explanation>
 
 The  problem  with  using  lower  wattage  lighting  and  putting  the  corals  closer  to  the  surface  is;
 
 a)  You  will  need  to  know  exactly  what  species  of  coral  and  their  lighting  requirements  you  have  so  you  can  place  them  in  the  right  place.
 
 b)  Risk  of  corals  overheating
 
 c)  Reduced  space  for  growth...  they  can't  really  grow  up  or  down,  only  sideways.
 
 
 The  above  3  alone  are  reasons  why  a  setup  that  works  for  you  will  not  necessarily  work  for  someone  else.
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Its  high  time  to  scrap  that  "watts  per  gallon"  nonsense!                

   ROFL  well  actually  murthy,  I  agree  with  you  but,  as  rahul  rightly  suggests  it  is  a  very  effective  way  of  suggesting  the  amount  of  light  required  to  a  new  commer  in  the  hobby!  
 @rahul,
 
                                                 
Quote:                
a)  You  will  need  to  know  exactly  what  species  of  coral  and  their  lighting  requirements  you  have  so  you  can  place  them  in  the  right  place.                  

 very  true!  (that  is  where  and  why  you  should  be  very  particular  with  the  aquascaping  of  the  reef!)
 actually  the  aquascaping  of  a  reef  is  a  subject  all  by  itself!
 I  was  actually  amazed  by  seeing  the  movie  'finding  nemo'  -  The  kind  of  fine  details  the  animators  have  in-corporated  in  the  reef  structure  are  really  worth  rewinding  and  seeing  again  for  many  more  times  before  aquascaping  your  tank    Very Happy
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dr_mozart
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Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 103
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 9:48 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 does  refraction  of  light  vary  with  the  wattage  or  the  kelvin  rating???  or  is  it  the  colour???  but  then  colour  depends  on  the  kelvin  rating  rite???
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aquascapes
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 2753
Location: Surat, Gujarat

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Yes  the  warmer  the  colour  -  the  deeper  it  can  penetrate!
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aquascapes
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
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Location: Surat, Gujarat

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: yes Reply with quote

                                                   
kochu  wrote:                
Remove  the  nutrients  and  sunlight  will  be  the  best  choice.  Cheap  and  abundant.  As  they  say  Solatue  filters  out  heat.
 anyway  I  will  do  so  in  my  mega  tank.                

 A  fresh  update!
 I  happen  to  come  across  a  glass  treatment  -  the  one  used  to  cut-out  heat  for  cars  -  it  is  known  as  'V-Kool'  and  is  also  available  in  a  clear  film  and  cuts  out  the  heat  while  letting  the  light  pass  through!
 The  only  dis-advantage  is  the  price  Sad
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kochu
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Joined: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 103
Location: Tanzania

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Clapping  what  da  price???
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aquascapes
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I'm  on  a  look  out  for  the  company's  outlet  -  the  only  people  from  whom  I  get  the  info  is  the  car-care  centres  who  are  only  interested  in  the  full  car  treatment  -  soon  as  I  get  someone  sensible  to  talk  to  I'll  post  the  price  here!
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retro_gk
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Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 3496
Location: Trivandrum, Kerala

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:28 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I'd  been  searching  for  this  thread  ever  since  we  had  that  natural  light  discussion...
 
 http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69492
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Deepak_Brid
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Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 782
Location: Bangalore

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
aquascapes  wrote:                
Yes  the  warmer  the  colour  -  the  deeper  it  can  penetrate!                

 
 Just  a  correction  here:
 
 Cooler  color  temperatures  penetrate  deeper  while  warmer  get  absorbed  in  the  water  column.
 
 Higher  the  color  temperature  >  shorter  the  wavelength,  therefore  deeper  it  penetrates.  Smile    
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