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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Glass driling & bulk head fixing
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Glass driling & bulk head fixing
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loaches-n-tetras
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 @Madan:  thanks  again.   when  you  say  reverse  so  you  mean  send  the  return  through  the  gravel  and  then  up  into  the  tank?   i  guess  this  would  dislodge  the  detritus  on  the  surface  and  propel  it  towards  the  outflow  by  the  vacuum  created  by  the  outflow?   wouldn't  it  murky  the  tank  up  with  all  this  disruption?
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Madan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 Yes  that's  the  definition  of  reverse  UG.
 Have  this  established  from  the  beginning  then  there  will  be  no  murkiness.
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vijaykgoa
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 Dinesh,
 
 Your  2  Eheims  2217  have  a  filter  volume  of  only  1.5  gallons  each.  In  total  3  gallons  of  filter  volume.  Your  sump  with  a  36  by  15  footprint  and  even  assuming  water  levels  of  around  15  inches  will  have  a  huge  capacity  for  around  35  gallons.  If  your  intend  to  use  the  same  for  a  marine/reef  tank  later  on,  you  will  definetely  have  atleast  3  compartments  planned  there.  A  skimmer  compartment,  a  refugium  and  a  return  pump  compartment  with  separating  baffles.  What  will  you  put  in  those  compartments  now?  You  have  all  the  space  in  the  world  for  all  your  biological,  mechanical  and  chemical  filteration  media.  And  huge  quantities  of  that  too  to  take  care  of  all  the  waste  that  your  chiclids  can  generate.   I  am  talking  about  filter  media  volume  of  not  less  than  10-15  gallons  compared  to  the  3  gallons  of  the  Eheims.
 
 Secondly  once  you  have  drilled  the  holes  on  the  bottom  glass  for  the  Eheim  outlets  and  the  back  glass  for  the  Eheim  inlets,  you  are  stuck  with  the  holes  for  life.  You  cannot  plug  a  hole  back,  non  return  valves  fail  and  these  very  holes  will  be  a  big  headache.  They  will  be  a  major  concern  for  accidental  drainage  once  you  remove  the  Eheims-  either  for  equipment  malfunction,  or  for  graduation  to  a  marine/reef  setup  when  u  will  have  to  dispose  off  the  Eheims  (since  they  become  nitrate  factories)  or  for  use  of  the  Eheims  in  another  setup.  If  at  all  you  have  to  use  the  Eheims  in  this  setup,  dont  use  them  by  drilling  holes  for  inlet  and  outlet.  Simply  use  them  over  the  top  method  for  both  inlets  and  spraybar.  Eheims  come  with  all  the  curved  pipes  and  all.  That  way  at  least  you  end  up  with  only  the  necessary  holes  and  the  Eheims  are  there  for  any  other  purpose  -  if  it  may  so  arise  in  the  future.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Vijay.
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headbanger_jib
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 instead  of  going  for  a  overflow  box  inside  the  tank,  why  can't  you  go  for  an  overflow  box  outside  the  tank
 that  way  u  save  up  on  the  tank  volume
 
 atleast  thats  what  i  plan  to  get  done  for  my  220g  tank,  as  the  tank  is  already  there  and  i  have  a  plan  to  add  a  sump  to  it,  as  i  want  to  increase  its  bio  load  handling  capability.
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kulsdood
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 Hello  Dinesh,  I  hadnt  seen  this  post  as  I  dont  usually  browse  all  sections  :)
 
 here  is  my  take  on  all  this:
 
 1.   how  safe  are  the  drilled  set  up  in  terms  of  longevity  and  weakening  the  glass?  --  perfect  no  issues,  if  done  right,  without  these  reef  tanks  wont  be  existing..  its  used  worldwide..
 
 2.   how  precise  is  the  drilling  in  india  compared  to  standardisation  of  the  bulk  head  fittings  or  even  a  threaded  pipe?  ...  drilling  is  precise,  availability  of  right  size  drill  holes  isnt  always...  for  e.g.  you  get  1/2"  drill  bit  and  a  1/2"  bulkhead  fitting..  it  will  never  go  in  it...  you  will  have  to  choose  a  smaller  bulk  head,  but  then  it  could  be  so  small  that  there  would  be  a  lot  to  fill  up
 
 3.   what  are  the  best  types  of  washers  that  can  be  used  -  silicone,  tephlon,  rubber,  etc?  --  for  all  purpose  use  silicone,  for  fresh  water  mostly  use  rubber..  for  reef  silicone...  you  can  use  white  cement  with  epoxy  waterproofing  as  well  and  once  dried  cover  with  silicone..
 
 4.   how  are  the  gaps  between  the  glass  bordering  the  drilled  hole  and  the  plumbing  filled  or  sealed?   ---  with  #3  above
 
 5.   which  material  is  better  for  the  bulkhead  -  PVC,  lead,  steel  plated  brass,  galvanised  iron,  etc?  ----  PVC
 
 6.   is  it  better  to  drill  the  bottom  glass  or  the  back  panel?  ---  depends,,  some  times  you  may  need  a  combination  like  I  have  done  in  the  tank  you  saw
 
 7.   i  have  been  given  the  impression,  that  toughened  glass  though,  5-6  times  stronger  than  regular  glass,  is  very  brittle  and  if  it  breaks  it  will  shatter.   on  the  other  hand  regular  glass  will  not  crack  up  as  much.   in  view  of  this  would  it  make  sense  to  laminate  a  toughened  glass  with  a  regular  glass  sheet  for  extra  compressive  strength  and  its  ability  to  stay  together  longer  (like  a  car  windshield)?  ----  -this  idea  of  sandwiching  2  glasses  is  absolutely  a  dangerous  idea...  just  drill  1  15mm  glass  and  then  get  it  toughened,  peace  of  mind..  dont  worry  for  later..
 
 Use  finolex  brand  bulkheads,,  in  bombay  they  are  known  as  tank  nipples...  
 use  finolex  schedule  40  Cpvc  pipes  or  upvc  pipes
 
 Also  what  Madan  said  is  right  regarding  using  reverse  eheim  flow,  it  works  like  a  charm...  its  synonymous  with  under  gravel  jets...
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nash81
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 Personally  of  the  many  tanks  that  i  have  drilled  not  a  single  one  has  ever  leaked  or  cracked  at  all.  All  of  these  are  largely  marine  or  cichlid  setups  and  most  of  them  are  4  feet  and  above  made  of  12mm  glass.  Infact  60%  of  them  were  drilled  with  the  tanks  actually  being  filled.  The  Key  is  not  to  use  pressure  on  the  drill,  do  not  use  knocking  mode,  do  it  in  small  portions,  I  usually  do  about  45  -  60  secods,  patience  is  the  key.  It  took  me  a  good  45mins  to  an  hour  to  drill  one  hole  in  a  12mm  glass.  So  you  can  see  how  slow  i  was.  All  of  these  tanks  have  simple  bulkheads  with  rubber  washers  on  them.  All  i  have  done  is  use  Silicone  White,  the  ones   that  usually  plumbers  would  use  to  fill  gaps  in  tubs  or  tiles.  I  have  a  layer  of  these  on  all  my  rubber  washers,  not  one  has  given  away  in  the  last  1  year  since  i  started  drilling.  The  oldest  drill  that  i  have  functioning  at  my  home  is  1  1/2yrs.
 
 Hope  the  above  helps.
 
 Warm  Regards
 Nirav  Shah
 www.indiapetstore.com
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loaches-n-tetras
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 At  the  time  of  posting  this  most  issues  are  settled.   thanks  all  you  guys  who  have  given  your  input.   i  plan  to  wait  for  a  week  to  see  if  my  present  set  up  sells.   
 
 here's  the  ad:
 Tank  for  sale
 
 if  that  does  not  happen  i  go  ahead  with  plan  A:
 1  hole  of  1.5  inches  in  the  bottom  glass  for  the  sump  outflow  system.
 1  hole  of  0.5  to  0.75  inches  in  the  bottom  glass  for  the  under-gravel  reverse  jets.   this  will  be  a  divided  system  of  pipes  to  jet  out  water  with  some  pressure  to  dislodge  the  surface  detritus.   (just  hope  my  cichlids  dont  expose  it  by  digging  up  the  gravel  to  the  bare  bottom)
 2  holes  of  1  inch  each  for  the  outflow  into  my  Eheim  filters
 1  hole  of  about  0.75  inches  into  the  back  glass  for  the  return  from  the  sump
 1  hole  of  0.5  to  0.75  inches  for  the  return  from  the  other  eheim  filter.
 
 all  the  glass  will  be  12  mm  and  the  viewable  sides  will  be  of  crystal  clear  white  glass.   im  just  deciding  on  the  pump  i'll  use  for  the  sump  return  to  finalise  the  return  pipe  diameter.   dont  want  to  do  any  guess  work  so  i'll  be  getting  the  fittings  and  pump  before  i  get  the  glass  and  drill  it  up.
 
 my  old  tank  will  be  cut  up  and  remodeled  into  the  sump  with  baffles  of  new  4mm  glass.   the  extra  glass  from  the  old  tank  will  serve  to  provide  support  to  the  pipes  in  the  cabinet  below  the  main  tank.
 
 i  have  access  to  PVC  fittings  from  "ashirvad",  "prince",  "finolex"  in  mumbai  and  will  get  items  form  these  brands.   
 
 silicone  sealant  will  be  used  around  the  neoprene  washers  for  a  better  seal  around  the  bulk  heads.   
 
 just  trying  to  coordinate  (stretch)  my  wallet  to  my  desires.
 
 thank  you  all
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loaches-n-tetras
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 Quick  update:
 have  been  shopping  around  in  Nagdevi  street  the  "hub  of  plumbing"  in  mumbai.   after  3  full  days  i  could  not  find  any  thing  that  fits  the  bill.   if  company  A  has  one  component  they  dont  another  and  so  it  goes  on...
 
 another  thing  that  hit  me  in  the  face  again  is  the  pathetic  standardisation  levels  in  this  country.   dimensions  vary  between  companies  by  a  good  mm  or  more  at  times!!!!!
 
 finally  i  have  got  the  bulkhead  (tank  nipples)  made  to  order  from  polypropylene  and  they  should  be  ready  in  a  days  time.   all  other  parts  of  the  plumbing  are  Astral  CPVC  "equivalent  to"  CPVC  grade  40  of  finolex.   i'll  have  to  try  my  luck.
 
 funny  thing  is  that  the  main  finolex  dealer  in  the  area  "Vasi  Shums"  does  not  even  have  a  catalog  to  show  his  customers  and  anything  ordered  he  claims  will  take  over  a  month!!!!     guess  finolex  is  playing  hard  to  get.
 
 well...  i  really  dont  have  time  for  all  this  dilly  dally.   i  get  the  parts  tomorrow  after  the  bulkheads  are  ready  and  move  on  to  get  the  glass  drilled.
 
 have  also  changed  my  plans  a  bit  in  view  of  the  confidence  level  that  has  sunk  by  all  this  sub-standard  goods  available:
 1)   the  outflow  to  the  sump  will  be  drilled  from  the  rear  glass  about  5  inches  from  the  top  edge
 2)   the  outlet  to  the  sump  will  be  enclosed  in  an  overflow  box
 3)   an  external  durso  type  stand  tube  will  be  designed  to  carry  the  outflow  to  the  sump
 4)   the  sump  return  will  be  drilled  from  the  rear  glass  about  1.5  inches  from  the  top  edge
 5)   the  return  will  be  channeled  through  a  4-way  to  2  jet-like  outlets  on  both  rear  corners  of  the  tank  directed  toward  the  front  center  of  the  tank  &  2  spray  bars  about  1  inch  above  the  water  level  so  we  can  "hear"  the  water  when  we  want  to.   all  these  3  channels  will  have  ballheads  to  allow  or  stop  the  flow
 6)   im  painting  the  rear  glass  a  dark  blue  or  black  so  the  pipes  can  be  hidden
 7)   my  eheims  will  be  connected  as  they  have  been  intended  by  the  company  over  the  top  edge  without  any  drilling
 Cool   an  under-gravel  jets  system  will  be  installed  with  either  the  eheim  returns  or  a  separate  low  pressure  powerhead  that  i  already  have  with  me.   yet  to  decide  the  nitty  gritties  of  that...
 
 &  tomorrow  is  another  day...
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kulsdood
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Joined: Dec 15, 2008
Posts: 683
Location: Mumbai,

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 I  agree...  our  standardization  sucks  in  almost  everything...  but  you  should  have  been  able  to  get  all  parts  rather  than  getting  fabricated..  but  nevertheless..
 
 by  the  way  I  cant  figure  out  which  way  you  are  going  with  your  plans...  if  the  idea  is  letting  eheim  pipes  visible  and  not  planning  for  future  there  is  no  advantage  of  doing  the  drills  any  way..  you  may  just  want  to  do  one  drill  on  back  or  side  glass  for  the  sump...  
 
 just  put  one  eheim  in  reverse  flow...  the  other  will  manage  to  suck  it  and  the  sump  will  help  it  ..  then  make  a  DIY  background  and  hide  the  pipes...   Thumb Up
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loaches-n-tetras
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Joined: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 272
Location: Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 sorry  did  not  see  this  set  of  replies;  was  too  busy  with  the  tank  and  getting  all  the  things  i  need.
 
 after  all  the  multiple  hassles:
 1)   finolex  main  agent  in  nagdevi  street  (vasi  shums)  did  not  have  many  parts  i  needed  and  did  not  have  a  catalog  either!!!!
 2)   finolex  parts  when  ordered  were  reported  to  take  about  3-6  weeks  to  arrive  and  full  advance  had  to  be  made
 3)   cross  company  fit  was  not  really  good  or  tight  -  poor  specification  standardisation  in  india
 4)   bulkhead  with  long  threaded  portion  was  not  available  from  any  company
 5)   neoprene  washers  would  take  4-6  days  to  deliver  -  1st  3  guys  i  met  and  asked  from
 6)   and  the  list  goes  on  to  lesser  issues
 
 finally  i  boiled  it  down  to:
 1)   i  found  a  dealer  for  "Astral  Flowguard"  who  had  all  the  parts  and  also  would  arrange  the  other  parts  within  a  days  time
 2)   drill  only  for  the  sump  -  since  the  eheim  holes  would  go  waste  in  future  if  i  went  marine
 3)   i  had  to  get  the  tank  nipples  (bulkheads)  made  to  order  from  schedule  80  pipes
 4)   drill  the  back  pane  -  due  to  poor  standardisation
 5)   washers  arrived  earlier  than  expected  within  2  days  and  also  cheaper  than  the  initial  quote.   the  original  guy  was  not  at  the  shop;  another  guy  delivered  and  gave  the  lower  price  even  after  i  gave  him  the  cash  for  the  initial  quote
 6)   glass  is  expected  today  any  minute  now  with  extra  clear  viewable  sides  and  front  and  drilled  back  all  in  12  mm.
 
 final  plans:
 A)   old  tank  became  the  sump  -  got  it  cut  and  sized  and  polished  with  the  baffles  at  no  extra  charge  from  the  2nd  hand  glass  dealers  near  JJ  hospital.   he  kept  the  extra  glass  which  was  fine  with  me
 B)   sump  return  will  be  chanelised  into  2  jets  on  the  rear  corners  and  a  spray  bar  as  well  at  the  front  of  the  tank.   each  will  have  a  ball-valve  to  vary  the  flow.
 C)   eheim  returns  will  flow  into  an  under-gravel  jet  system  to  dislodge  the  detritus  towards  the  eheims
 D)   planning  to  surround  the  UGJ  system  with  stones  and  cover  this  all  with  sand
 E)   sump  will  contain  coral  gravel  to  buffer  pH  to  alkaline  levels  and  bioballs  or  ceramic  rings  for  added  filtration
 F)   have  got  myself  an  "Aquanic"  pump  rated  at  2500  LPH  with  a  head  pressure  of  15  feet  for  the  sump  return
 G)   all  the  plumbing  has  arrived  and  im  just  waiting  for  the  main  tank  glass  to  begin  the  silicone  process.
 
 more  updates  as  they  happen
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loaches-n-tetras
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Joined: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 272
Location: Mumbai

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: Glass driling & bulk head fixing Reply with quote

 sample  holes  either  too  big  (by  1-2+  mm  on  one  side)  or  too  small   (by  1-2+  mm  on  one  side).   what  to  do,  now???
 1)   pack  the  gap  with  silicone?
 2)   siliconise  the  rim  of  the  washers?
 3)   silicone  bead  around  washers?
 4)   scrap  the  idea  of  sump  with  drilling?
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