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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - How to treat the infected fish
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How to treat the infected fish
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Joy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Hi  !
 One  of  the  fish  in  my  tank  has  developed  some  strange  disease,  its  belly  is  protruding,  the  scales  specially  on  the  belly  are  arched  and  I  notice  that  even  the  eyes  are  a  bit  protruded,  I  am  not  sure  what  infection  it  has  caught.  Can  any  one  help  out  and  suggest  a  treatment  that  can  be  given  to  the  fish.  the  water  temperature  at  the  moment  in  my  tank  is  25  degree  Celcius  and  other  parameters  too  are  normal,  I  would  prefer  to  treat  the  fish  in  the  tank  itself  as  I  do  not  have  a  hospital  tank,or  a  separate  heater  to  treat  the  fish  in  a  bucket,  however,  I  am  afraid  in  adminstering  any  medicine  in  the  tank  may  effect  the  other  healthy  fishes.......please  help...
 
 Regards
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Hey  Mitra!
 Your  post  almost  confirms  that  your  fish  is  suffering  from  abdominal  dropsy.  I  am  afraid  from  your  discription  it  seems  to  be  a  hard  job  to  revive  it  but,  you  could  do  one  thing  go  to  the  nearest  chemist  and  acquire  a  medication  called  Nitrofurantoin  (100mgs)  add  one  capsule  or  tablet  to  40  ltrs  of  aquarium  water.  (when  I  say  add  I  mean  make  a  stock  solution  by  crushing  the  tablet  or  if  in  capsule  form  by  opening  the  capsule  and  emptying  it  in  a  1  ltr.  bottle  of  aquarium  water  and  than  pouring  the  stock  solution  in  the  tank).  Treat  it  thrice  with  a  interval  of  two  days  and  a  partial  water  change  before  each  medication.
 HTH
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naveen
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 hi  aquascapes,
            really  nice  of  you  to  spend  time  helping  ppl  out...me  like  many  other  ppl  might  not  be  able  to  thank  you  enough...but  your  great  work  here,  am  sure  is  woth  taking  note  off...thanks  once  again  for  your  timely  advice...
 happy  fish  keeping  ,
 regards,
 
 naveen
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Bow
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vinven
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Nitrofurantoin  
 
 What  other  diseases  does  this  treat  ?Is  it  only  for  dropsy?
 
 -V!nay
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gokulin
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 I  think  Joy's  tank  is  a  planted  tank....  Will  this  medicine  affect  the  plants?
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 @  V!nay,
 IMO  it  can  also  be  used  for  external  bacterial  infections  like  fin-rot,  cloudy  eyes  etc.
 @Gokul,
 treatment  method  (for  any  disease  or  disorder)  strictly  stresses  the  point  of  a  seperate  qurantine/hospital  tank  even  a  make  shift  water  storing  tank  or  something  should  be  considered.  If  however,  Joy  cannot  arrange  for  a  hospital  tank  and  has  to  consider  other  options  for  treating  the  fish............you  can  also  mix  three  tablets  of  the  medication  =  300mgs.  to  about  300grams  of  BHM  or  other  fresh  or  frozen  food  and  feed  it  twice  a  day  subject  to  the  limitation  that  the  fish  is  still  eating  food.
 IMO,  if  the  fish  is  still  accepting  food  it  is  better  to  mix  the  same  dose  as  above  i.e.  300mgs  of  sulfathiazole  into  200gms  of  feed  and  fed  twice  a  day  for  a  three  to  four  day  period.
 Actually,  it  all  depends  upon  many  factors:
 #1  which  fish?
 #2  what  is  the  tank  like?
 #3  volume  of  water?
 #4  filtration  used?
 #5  do  other  fish  show  any  signs  of  illness?  What?
 #6  when  did  you  notice  it  and  how  long  is  the  fish  suffering  from  the  disease  or  disorder?
 It  is  difficult  to  help  if  proper  information  is  not  mentioned  on  the  fish  in  question  or  the  tank  to  be  treated.
 regards,
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deepesh
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Hi  Joy  
 
 My  two  paisa  worth  of  thoughts.
 
 Nitrofurantoin  or  NFT  as  some  of  my  colleagues  (and  sometimes  I  too)  call  it  is  an  antibiotic  related  to  a  group  of  antibiotics  called  fluoroquinolones.  This  includes  a  wide  range  of  widely  abused  broad  spectrum  antibiotics  such  as  ciprofloxacin,  ofloxacin,  etc.
 
 These  are  active  against  a  very  wide  range  of  bacteria,  both  gram  positive  and  gram  negative.  NFT  however  is  used  more  often  for  gram  negative  bacteria.  Although  I  havent  read  anything  specific  about   the  effect  of  NFT  on  nitrobacter  I  would  draw  attention  to  the  fact  that  it  is  a  BROAD  spectrum  antibiotic  active  against  gram  negative  bacteria.  I  dont  know  if  somebody  has  studied  effect  of  NFT  on  plants  but  I  should  think  there  is  no  great  effect.
 
 Bacterial  DNA  is  copied  into  RNA.  RNA  binds  to  ribosomes.  Ribosomes  then  join  together  amino  acids  as  per  the  instruction  in  the  RNA.  This  forms  proteins.  NFT  binds  to  bacterial  ribosomes  and  stops  production  of  essential  proteins  thereby  killing  bacteria.  Since  this  binding  is  to  bacterial  ribosomes  only,  plants  should  be  safe.
 
 I  personally  would  not  give  NFT.  I  am  generally  against  abusing  antibiotics  like  this  but  then  that  is  a  personal  choice.  Different  strokes  for  different  folks.
 
 Deepesh
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gopiqpp
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Deepesh,  Antibiotic  abuse  is  of  two  types.  One  of  course,  is  when  you  administer  an  antibiotic  when  there  is  no  need-  and  the  other  is  when  you  DONT  administer  it  when  there  is  a  clear  indication  that  it  should  be  administered.  In  this  case  the  description  clearly  points  to  dropsy  which  if  left  untreated  is  usually  fatal.  In  this  case  there  is  no  harm  in  administering  an  antibiotic  in  the  recommended  manner  i.e;  quarantine  tank  and  proper  dosing  schedule.  Accurate  diagnosis  and  the  selection  of  the  proper  treatment  with  guidance  from  experienced  aquarists  on  forums  such  as  this  one  and  the  vast  amount  of  information  on  the  web  would  be  the  best  way  to  go  about  it.
 regards
 Gopi
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gopiqpp
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 sorry-double  post
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deepesh
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:55 am Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Is  there  really  such  a  strong  case  for  antibiotics  in  dropsy?
 
 Deepesh
 
 Did  you  know  dropsy  is  an  old  english  word  for  the  accumulation  of  water  in  patients  with  renal  failure
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gopiqpp
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 No  there  is  no  certified  case  for  the  use  of  antibiotics  in  fish  dropsy.  But  may  I  point  you  to  this  article  ?  
 
 http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article24.html
 
 And  yes,  Dropsy  is  an  archaic  term  for  edema  of  renal  origin  and  is  a  shortened  form  of  Hydropsy.  Are  you  cognizant  of  the  term  Emperical  treatment  ?  In  medicine  it  means  that  where  the  diagnosis  is  not  certain  but  the  symptoms  and  signs  seem  to  point  to  a  probable  diagnosis  then  treatment  with  an  agent  that  has  proved  to  be  effective  in  similar  cases  is  justified.
 
 Quote  from  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_treatment
 
 "  Empirical  treatment  is  medical  treatment  (usually  antibiotics)  started  before  a  diagnosis  is  confirmed.  The  most  common  reason  is  because  investigations  needed  to  confirm  the  diagnosis  will  take  a  long  time  or  are  delayed,  and  because  delay  in  treatment  will  harm  the  patient."
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Joy
 I  agree  with  Nauzur  on  antibiotic  treatment.
 However  I  would  be  more  comfortable  if  you  can  arrange  a  hospital  tank.  it  need  not  be  a  glass  tank,  I  have  sucessfully  treated  by  black  moor  in  a  25  lt  plastic  bucket  with  aeration  &  heater.
 Antibiotics  are  to  be  used  as  a  last  resort  and  treating  main  tank  is  like  using  a  cannon  but  is  essential  in  some  cases.
 I  don't  think  there  is  any  known  sure  treatment  for  dropsy  but  if  it  is  a  normal  stomach  infection,  anitbiotics  will  help.
 Remove  any  acitvated  carbon,  it  will  simply  absorb  all  medicine.  Maintain  good  aeration  and  be  regular  with  water  changes  as  you  can  expect  ammonia  surges  with  antibiotic  treatment.
 I  normally  keep  an  spare  sponge  filter  running  in  my  tanks.  This  is  simply  trf  to  hospital  tank  along  with  water  form  main  tank,  and  you  have  a  working  tank  complete  with  biological  filteration.
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

                                                   
deepesh  wrote  (View  Post):                
Is  there  really  such  a  strong  case  for  antibiotics  in  dropsy?
 Deepesh
 Did  you  know  dropsy  is  an  old  english  word  for  the  accumulation  of  water  in  patients  with  renal  failure                

 Deepesh  I  respect  your  technical  knowledge  in  pharmaceuticals  and  am  myself  not  a  very  regular  user  nor  a  prescriber  for  antibiotics.
 If  you  read  the  original  poster  in  the  first  post  the  condition  of  the  fish  (I  mean  the  fish  seems  to  have  bloated  up  very  fast  which  points  a  fingure  towards  the  dropsy  being  a  bacterial  origin)  -  the  situation  is  rather  serious  and  I'm  afraid  the  fish  does  not  have  much  time  left  if  not  treated  with  something  which  is  strong  enough  to  revive  it!  Moreover,  the  accumulation  of  fluids  in  the  abdominal  cavity  badly  damages  the  liver  and  the  kidneys  and  the  fish  dies  from  that  so,  it  is  better  to  take  a  chance  with  'even'  an  antibiotic  rather  than  loosing  the  fish.
 different  strokes  for  different  folks!
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deepesh
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: How to treat the infected fish Reply with quote

 Hi  gopigpp
 
 I  am  aware  of  the  meaning  of  the  term  empirical  treatment.  <grin>
 
 Hi  aquascape
 
 I  agree,  accumulation  of  visible  amount  of  water  in  a  fish,  or  for  that  matter  any  animal  indicates  that  something  is  really  wrong,  often  a  terminal  event.  This  is  usually  a  result  of  (rather  than  the  cause  of)  liver  or  kidney  failure.
 
 Sorry  guys,  like  I  said  it  is  a  personal  preference.  I  am  not  against  empirical  treatment.  Aquarists  regularly  depend  on  empirical  treatment.  Water  changes  are  just  that,  even  if  we  are  not  adding  any  active  medication.
 
 As  for  the  discussion  on  antibiotics...  can  we  just  shift  it  to  a  new  thread?  If  we  all  agree  we  can  start  a  thread  on  the  use  of  antibiotics  in  aquaria.  The  reason  is  this  that  this  discussion  can  be  prolonged.  And  the  thread  appears  to  be  veering  off  Joy's  original  post.  
 
 At  the  moment  for  this  particular  thread  lets  ask  Joy  how  his  fish  is.  
 
 Gopigpp,  aquascapes.  Shall  we  start  the  thread?  We  can  pool  in  all  that  we  know  and  come  to  a  consensus.  Perhaps  even  some  sort  of  guidelines  for  diseased  fish.  
 
 Deepesh
 
 Joy  are  you  still  there?
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