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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Breeding
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Breeding
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:46 pm Post subject: Breeding Reply with quote

 My  discus  are  freaking  out!  The  blue  diamond  pair  I  have  is  very  comfortable  now.  After  the  weather  change,  getting  them  to  spawn  is  so  easy.  
 
 Just  a  water  change,  and  some  blood  worms.  This  gets  them  cleaning,  and  laying.    :lol:  
 
 1.  I  am  wondering  about  the  adding  of  methylene    blue  to  the  tank  after  spawning,  to  keep  fungus  at  bay!  Some  say    do  it,  and  some  say  dont.    Confused:  
 
 2.  I  also  heard  adding  some  distilled  water  for  hatching,  as  it  reduces  osmotic  preeure  on  the  eggs,  and  hatch  ratio  is  thus  better.  How  feasible  is  that?
 
 I  would  appreciate  some  input  on  this.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:10 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Nitin,
 
 Great  that  your  Blue  diamonda  are  breeding.
 
 I  really  wouldn't  recommend  adding  distilled  water  after  the  eggs  are  laid  just  to  improve  hatch  rate.  It  might  affect  the  parents.
 
 What  I  suggest  is  ...  include  a  slow  distilled  water  dilution  of  your  tap  water  over  a  period  of  a  few  weeks  so  that  the  parents  too  are  acclimatised  to  the  soft  water.
 
 This  I  would  suggest  you  do  only  in  case  you  have  problems  of  eggs  not  hatching  after  a  few  spawns.
 
 Most  importantly  Blue  diamonds  are  difficult  to  breed,  the  hatch  rate  is  low  and  survival  lower.  You  may  need  to  lower  the  pH  too.
 
 What  you  have  are  a  prime  pair  of  discus(  wish  I  had  them    :wink:  ).  Don't  blindly  rush.  Slowly  work  on  lowering  the  pH  and  conductivity.  Jack  Wattley  recommends  a  conductivity  of  60  micrseimens  for  the  blue  diamond  fry  to  do  well.
 
 In  fact  according  to  Wattley  Blue  diamond  discus  are  difficult  to  breed  and  even  more  trouble  to  raise  the  fry.
 
 Just  my  2  cents  worth  of  bookish  knowledge.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:37 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Nitin,
 
 Any  update  on  the  breeding  blue  diamonds  ?
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:24 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 No,  nothing  at  all  for  now.  My  water  supply  seems  to  be  slightly  erratic.  I  am  trying  to  make  myself  fully  equipped.  I  have  plans  to  get  some  distilled  water  too,  for  the  inducing  water  change.
 
 This  is  because  that  can  reduce  the  osmotic  pressure  on  the  eggs,  if  thats  a  negative  factor,  right?
 
 How  I  wish  I  was  back  home!!!  The  tap  water  is  somewhere  around  6  60  6.2  on  the  pH  scale.  Perfect  water!!!
 
 Water  changes  would  make  my  discus  smile  wide,  and  I  could  see  it!!
 
 Let's  see.  I  shall  keep  you  posted.
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ravi
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:25 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 What  is  the  current  pH  value  in  your  tank  now  ?
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beta
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:53 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Im  still  wondering  bout  the  Osmotic  pressure  part,  as  some  guys  like  Venket  and  Dinesh  have  had  discus  fry  with  the  normal  Chennai  water.
 How  do  the  eggs  laid  by  hardwater  species  like  African  cichlids  counter  the  osmotic  pressure?
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Madan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:11 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Osmotic  pressure  as  I  under  stand  is  the  pressure  acting  on  a  membrane  due  to  the  difference  in  the  ionic  composition  of  the  fluid  on  either  side  of  the  membrane  causing  a  flow  of  ions  from  the  side  with  higher  concentration  to  the  side  with  lower  concentration.
 
 How  does  this  affect  the  hatching  of  fish  eggs  ?  
 
 In  fact  with  a  higher  concentration  of  ions  in  the  water  these  should  enter  the  eggs  and  cause  it  to  burst.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:00 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I  think  i  read  in  Jack  Wattleys  book  that  water  enters  the  eggs  before  the  milt  enters  it  due  to  osmotic  pressure,  which  inturn  causes  the  eggs  not  to  be  fertilised!
 Shouldnt  it  be  the  same  case  for  angel  fish  eggs?  they  seem  to  have  no  problem  Confused:
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:29 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Actually,  the  eggs,  have  a  small  opening  through  which  the  sperm  enters,  this  hole  only  remains  open  for  a  short  time,  with  oft  water  fish,  increased    water  hardness  causes  the  hole  to  close  prematurely.
 WRT  discus,  egg  membranes  are  "calcifugous"(spelling?)  i.e.  the  membrane  integrity  is  dependent  on  calcium  available  in  the  water.  In  addition  some  believe  that  hard  water  may  cause  blockage  of  the  sperm  duct  in  males=reduced  fertility.
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WiseOne
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 wow  that  was  a  gr8  KB
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Anand
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:17 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Osmotic  pressure  and  egg  calcification....  you  boys  are  making  mi  head  speen....    :lol:      :lol:  
 
     well!!!  since  no  one  addressed  the  methlynblue  part,  You  can  add  it,  if  you  can  find  formalin,  you  can  add  that  as  well  to  control  fungus  and  bacteria,  but  with  hyde  wait  about  4-6  hrs  after  spawning  before  adding.  Low  bacteria  count  is  the  key  for  successful  breeding,  hence  people  with  low  pH  have  better  success....    Good  Luck
 
       What  is  your  water  hardness  anyways?
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katz
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:21 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Nitin!  did  you  have  any  luck  with  your  pair  of  blue-diamonds???  I  have  a  pair  that  has  just  bred,  and  there  is  a  nice  batch  of  about  75  fry,  and  they  are  now,  3  days  old!!!
 
 With  all  the  fuss  that  I  have  been  hearing  related  to  breeding  discus,  I  must  say  that  I  have  been  lucky  beacuse  I  have  done  nothing  but  make  partial  water  changes  twice  a  week  (Only  tap  water),  and  the  tank  had  5  other  discus.  Plus,  the  tank  has  gravel,  drift  wood,  and  an  external  filter.  
 
 Karthi.
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nag
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:15 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Karti:
 
 Congratulations  on  the  first  arrivals.
 
 Bye,
 ___
 Nag
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:11 pm Post subject: Kewl Reply with quote

 Thats  real  cool,  Katz!  Keep  up  the  great  work.
 
 The  best  thing  would  be  to  move  the  other  discus  to  another  tank.  Take  good  care  of  the  fry.
 
 Once  they  can  be  separated,  you  could  move  them  to  a  small  tank  of  their  own.  Then,  move  the  pair,  to  a  bare  tank,  with  sponge  filter.  It  could  be  a  2ft  X  1.5ft  X  1.5ft.  That  would  be  great.  Discus,  can  spawn  every  10  days,  if  they  are  in  good  condition,  and  are  given  the  right  conditions.
 
 Looks  like  your  water  change  regime,  water  quality,  temperature,  and  feeding  [both  frequency,  and  quality],  is  good.  Thats  when  you  have  success  like  this.
 
 With  my  pair,  I  had  problems.  The  male  would  eat  the  eggs,  right  after  they  were  laid.  Its  still  happening.  The  female  lays  a  nice  large  number  of  eggs.  This  guy  is  very  eager,  and  goes  right  behind,  gobbling  up  the  caviar!
 
 I  am  on  the  lookout  for  a  mature  male  blue  diamond,  if  someone's  got  them.  Any  deal  like  sale,  exchange,  or  even  professional  studding[like  they  do  with  dogs,  share  pups(read:fry),  or  charge  for  the  mating  session]  would  be  ok  with  me!!!  LOL!
 
 As  for  now  I  just  managed  to  borrow  a  blue  diamond  from  a  generous  friend,  and  am  keeping  my  fingers  crossed[YEAH  F-I-N-G-E-R-S].  Lets  see  what  happens.
 
 The  discus  I  have  are  a  very  healthy  couple,  and  very  good  size  too...
 
 Have  fun!  
 
 PS:  By  the  way,  just  got  a  few  new  tanks.  Now  that  you  have  fry  unexpectedly,  you  can  shift  the  fry  to  my  place  once  you  need  space.  LOL!  Just  kidding!
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katz
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:51 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Well  Nitin,  I  had  moved  the  other  fish  to  a  seperate  tank  once  the  eggs  hatched,  which  was  on  the  12th.  I  tried  to  feed  them  brine  shrimp  today  but  the  fry  showed  no  interest!  Is  it  too  early!?!  do  let  me  know.  I  have  also  removed  the  external  filter  and  have  put  in  place  a  sponge  filter.
 
 Will  think  about  moving  them  to  a  bare  tank  after  I  seperate  the  fry.  Any  suggestions  as  to  when  I  can  seperate  them!?!  And  I  am  surprised  to  hear  that  Discus  can  spawn  every  10  days!!!  I  was  under  the  assumption  that  it  was  more  like,  once  in  2  months.  
 
 About  the  male  that  you  are  looking  for!  I  have  3  other  adult  blue-diamonds  that  about  a  year  old  which  I  still  cannot  sex.  It  any  of  them  turns  out  to  be  a  male,  then  we  can  talk....  
 
 Katz.
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