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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warning
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In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warning
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Marc
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

 Oh!  you  are  trying  to  motivate  hobbyist  to  take  up  ichthyology........only  now  do  I  see  what  you  were  trying  to  do  so  loooong.
 
 Guess  my  warning  is  quite  clear.  You  can  carry  on  from  here  motivating  hobbyist  etc.  
 
 Hasta  la  vista   Thumb Up


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

 Javed,
 
 We  follow  a  very  simple  rule  -  If  its  a  protected  area,  keep  off  the  place.  We  have  enough  to  explore  in  other  places.  Not  that  we  have  to  get  into  a  national  park  and  fish.
 
 Regarding  proposal  and  getting  permissions  for  study  -  Probably  that  is  not  what  we  want  as  we  dont  have  so  much  of  resources  (I  would  say  mostly  in  terms  of  time)  for  such  a  commitment.  Best  of  luck  if  you  are  venturing  into  something  like  that.
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vidhyasagar99
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

 i  have  seen  most  of  it,  where  named  fishes  are  the  most  collected  ,  i  dont  get  the  piont  of  collecting  whats  already  been  studied,and  also
 not  capable  of  breeding  it  in  captivity
 
 atleast  most  (70%)  of  the  fishes  collected  should  atleast  be  bred  in  captivity  rather  than  showing  it  in  aquariums  for  their  little  differences  in  traits  ,  then  its  worth  the  effort
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

 Well,  Let's  leave  Mr  Vidyasagar  to  his  studies.....
 
 To  continue......
 
                                                 
lycosids  wrote  (View  Post):                
A  little  space  (roughly  about  18-24  inches),a  little  patience  couple  with  lots  of  love  and  enthusiasm  for  the  natural  world  can  yield  hours  of  fun,knowledge  and  learning  for  almost  the  entire  family!
 An  aquarium  is  hardly  rocket  science  NOR  is  it  a  glass  prison  as  so  many  of  these  self  righteous  "animal  rights  activists"  have  called  it!
 On  the  contrary,it  is  a  secret  window  into  the  hidden  world  of  fish,their  life  cycle  and  an  opportunity  to  observe  their  fascinating  world  at  the  leisure  and  comfort  of  one's  own  home!                

 Are  you  serious?  
 
 
                                                 
lycosids  wrote  (View  Post):                
Thank  you  everyone!
 I  really  appreciate  the  fact  that  members  of  IAH  keep  an  open  mind  and  are  willing  to  perceive  different  opinions  from  their  own!   Very Happy   
                 

 That  works  both  ways,  You  know.  And  comments  like........
 
                                                 
lycosids  wrote  (View  Post):                

                And  No,  I  do  not  work  with  any  conservation  agency,  I  believe  "conservation"  these  days  is  a  very  well  raped  word  and  I  am  not  a  rapist!  Wink
 I  personally  think  we  need  to  save  our  species  from  misguided  "conservationists"!                

 Do  not  go  well  with  your  "last  time  I  checked  it  was  a  Democracy"  talk.  Do  kindly  maintain  the  dignity  of  the  Forum!
 
 
                                                 
KungFuPanda  wrote  (View  Post):                
                                                 
ashwin1224  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Ok,  I  am  not  on  the  same  league  as  our  senior  members,  and  I  have  gone  to  only  one  location,  twice,  for  the  sole  purpose  of  catching  something  unique.  Still  heres  my  experiences  about  the  above  stated  notions  that  some  people  might  have  :
 1.  Its  not  even  close  to  a  picnic.Period.  Not  every  small  stream  is  developed  as  a  tourist  spot,  neither  there  are  any  fish  in  the  "Picnic  Spots"  due  to  pollution.  I  had  to  cut  my  way  through  huge  reeds,  knee  deep  mud  and  gazzilion  mosquitoes  of  gazzilion  colors.  And  an  honorary  mention  to  leaches  here  too.  There  was  not  a  good  place  to  sit  or  even  dry  patch  of  land  near  the  stream.  And  I  dont  drink  Thumb Down  
 2.  No  comments.
 3.  I  spent  5  hours  in  my  first  visit,  cought  only  a  few  danios  and  a  few  loaches,  total  12  fishes.  On  my  next  trip  I  spent  3  hours  and  caught  danios,  a  channa  sp  and  a  few  esomus  sp.,  Total  10  fishes.
 4.  No  one  brings  everything  back.  But  I  bought  because  I  caught  so  few  Razz                

 
 Ashwin,
 
 He  wants  say  that  those  are  misconceptions  people  generally  have  in  mind  when  the  word  collection  trip  is  said                

 Samir,  In  this  misunderstanding  Ashwin  authenticated  Deepak(Random2)  Chuckle  "From  the  babe's  mouth"  is  what  springs  to  mind.
 
   
                                                 
Yogesh  wrote  (View  Post):                
[Bottomline  is  there  should  be  some  serious  studying  rationale  behind  your  Habitat  Collection  Trip.  Here  we  have  seen  pictures  of  bulkload  of  fish  jam-packed  in  bags  by  some  'Collectors'(!)  and  later  updating  that  only  few  of  them  survived  upon  return.                

 Bingo!  Yogesh,  you  hit  the  nail  right  on  the  head  Very Happy  
 
   
                                                 
lycosids  wrote  (View  Post):                
Ashwin,  
                  You  need  to  email  me,  my  friend!  Smile  
 Are  any  of  you  on  Facebook?  Let's  meet  online  and  get  cracking!
 Regards,
                      Javed  Jameer  Ahmed.
 
 P.S:  You  can  use  my  e-mail  to  look  me  up  on  Facebook!  Smile                

 Now  this  is  something  funny.  Mr  javed,  Why  do  you  want  the  discussion  to  move  away  from  the  open  forum,  Where  people  can  debate  back  and  forth  in  a  democratic  manner,  to  a  secluded  area  where  one  or  the  other  can  hold  sway?  I  am  always  wary  of  such  suggestions,  what  would  anybody  have  to  hide  in  these  discussions  that  they  ask  a  member  of  IAH  to  mail  them  out  of  public  glare?  I  do  not  want  to  think  that  I  am  suspicious,  But  I  am!  Luckily,  IAH  members  are  a  good  lot,  as  Ashwin's  reply  to  you  proves.
 
 
                                                 
lycosids  wrote  (View  Post):                

            
 And  this  is  also  another  reason  WHY  I  refuse  to  post  on  here,  to  avoid  such  dogma  and  incessant,  futile  statements.  I  am  not  very  fond  of  unnecessary  arguments  and  jaundiced,  prejudiced  views!
 
 Sincerely,
   Javed  Jameer  Ahmed.                

 Not  very  neighbourly,  Javed.  Can  I  remind  you  of  your  "Last  time  I  checked  it  was  still  a  democracy"  statement?
 
 Listen,  javed.  If  you  have  lurked  around  since  2006  as  you  have  claimed,  you  will  be  well  aware  of  who  is  serious  in  this  hobby  and  who  is  not.  But  one  thing  is  for  sure,
 We  are  as  wary  of  the  rabid  conservationist  as  we  are  wary  of  the  rabid  collector!  Mind  you.
 
 Regards,
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:14 am Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

 Nayak,
                   Lets  start  with  your  first  query!
 
   An  18-24  inch  aquarium  can  indeed  be  used  to  house  a  few  small  native  fish  species  and  yes  I  am  serious!  
 I  fail  to  see  the  problem  with  someone  not  having  the  place  for  a  very  large  aquarium,  setting  up  a  smaller  aquarium  with  smaller  species!
 
 Dwarf  Puffers,  Aplocheilus  sp.  Rice  fish,  Barbs,  Dario  sp,  Rasboras,  Loaches  are  just  some  of  the  fish  that  come  to  mind!
 
   A  24  X  18X18  inch  aquarium  can  even  house  4-6  numbers  of  Etroplus  canarensis,  along  with  a  few  Danio  sp.  and/or  loaches  added  for  good  measure!
 
 These  are  just  a  few  native  fish  species  that  can  be  housed  in  a  smaller  aquarium,  there  are  plenty  more!
 
 Second,  the  reason  I  asked  members  to  email  me  is  NOT  because  I  wanted  to  take  the  discussions  off  the  public  forum,  but  rather  because  I  wanted  to  interact  with  like  minded  hobbyists  who  are  closer  home,  to  get  to  know  them  on  a  more  personal  level  and  perhaps  include  those  interested  in  my  project!  
 
 I  have  nothing  to  hide  nor  is  it  against  the  law  or  the  forum  rules  to  ask  fellow  members  to  e-mail  you!
 
   Just  so  I  make  my  point  clear,  I  am  neither  a  rabid  conservationist  NOR  a  rabid  collector  and  I  most  certainly  DO  NOT  advocate  collecting  fish  species  in  protected  areas.  If  you  have  read  the  previous  posts  I  have  made  in  this  thread,  I  DO  MENTION  the  fact  that  there  are  plenty  of  wild  areas  other  than  Protected  Areas  which  dedicated  and  conscientious  aquarist  and  hobbyists  can  utilize  to  collect  native  fish!  
 
 Warm  regards  and  many  thanks,
 Javed  Jameer  Ahmed.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:22 am Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

                                                   
lycosids  wrote  (View  Post):                
Nayak,
                  Rice  fish  and  in  a  24  X  18  X  18  inch  aquarium,  even  4-5  Etroplus  canarensis  come  to  mind!  Smile
                 

 
 I  wouldnt  agree  with  this.  24x18x18  is  nowhere  good  enough  for  Etroplus  canarensis  that  too  for  4-5  of  them.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

 I  personally  believe  that,  with  good  filtration  and  NO  other  tank  mates  4  specimens  can  be  easily  housed  in  a  24  X  18  X  18  inch  aquarium!
 Regards,
                     Javed  Jameer  Ahmed.
 
 P.S  :  Here's  a  link  which  might  interest  you.  It  gives  a  fair  idea  as  to  the  housing  requirements  of  these  shoaling  cichlids!
 
 That  being  said,  we  all  have  our  own  opinions  on  the  husbandry  requirements  of  the  fish  we  keep  and  they  do  not,  necessarily  have  to  match!
 There  are,  after  all,  multiple  roads  to  success!
 
 Link  :  http://www.eacichlid.co.uk/showthread.php?3795-Etroplus-canarensis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

                                                   
lycosids  wrote  (View  Post):                
I  personally  believe  that,  with  good  filtration  and  NO  other  tank  mates  4  specimens  can  be  easily  housed  in  a  24  X  18  X  18  inch  aquarium!                

 Javed
 
 We  respect  your  personal  opinion.  But  your  like-minded  hobbyist  friend  Mr.Vidhyasagar  raised  concerns  about  growing  Indian  Population  issue  earlier  (Page  1).  According  to  him,  increasing  population  is  leading  to  lesser  &  lesser  natural  habitat  for  wildlife  to  thrive.  Per  him,  mounting  Density  of  Human  Population  (Total  Population  /Total  Land  Area)  is  becoming  serious  issue  affecting  wildlife  population.  So  I  just  wonder  why  you  are  using  different  yardsticks  for  humans  &  poor  fish.
 
 OK.  I  agree  4  specimens  of  E.  Canarensis  can  be  ‘housed’  in  a  24x18x18  tank,  no  issues.  But  such  ‘housing’  is  more  like  ‘dumping’.  You  cannot  just  go  by  the  decree  of  determining  Tank  Size  proportionate  to  Fish  Size.  Fish  needs  proper  space  to  thrive,  live,  move  around,  grow  and  to  breed  subsequently.  So  just  because  fish  doesn’t  grow  big,  it  can  be  housed  in  a  smaller  tank.  Such  kind  of  thinking  is  amateur  and  for  a  ‘Naturalist’  more  like  a  serious  blunder.  5-6  Cans  can  and  SHOULD  be  housed  in  a  minimum  footprint  of  36x18x18  tank  size  &  above.  No  way  are  they  going  to  grow  properly  in  your  24x18x18,  feel  happy  or  breed  inside  such  compressed  space.  Some  experienced  IAH  members  have  successfully  bred  Cans  in  their  tank  and  you  should  check  the  tank-size  they  ‘housed’  for  their  spawning  Cans.  Imagine  yourself  being  sheltered  at  cramped  cubicle  you  work  for  months  &  months.
 
 Just  because  someone  expressed  some  opinion  on  foreign  forum  that  he  accommodated  them  in  a  particular  smaller  tank-size,  we  are  not  going  to  accept  it  on  face-value  that  he  successfully  gave  them  life.  Again  the  link  you  posted  have  a  reference  to  one  of  the  best  articles  written  by  our  system  admin  Ravi  contributed  by  Team  IAH.  So  you  are  requested  to  treat  IAH  as  a  serious  platform  to  discuss  serious  issues  very  seriously.  Period!
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Romi
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:33 am Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

 this  is  a  fasciating  thread.  What  a  wealth  of  knowledge  and  conscienctiousness  we  have  on  display!  IAH  has  gone  from  strength  to  strength.
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lycosids
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: In response to - Collecting Native Indian Fish - A warni Reply with quote

 Quote"  OK.  I  agree  4  specimens  of  E.  Canarensis  can  be  ‘housed’  in  a  24x18x18  tank,  no  issues.  But  such  ‘housing’  is  more  like  ‘dumping’.  You  cannot  just  go  by  the  decree  of  determining  Tank  Size  proportionate  to  Fish  Size.  Fish  needs  proper  space  to  thrive,  live,  move  around,  grow  and  to  breed  subsequently.  So  just  because  fish  doesn’t  grow  big,  it  can  be  housed  in  a  smaller  tank.  Such  kind  of  thinking  is  amateur  and  for  a  ‘Naturalist’  more  like  a  serious  blunder.  5-6  Cans  can  and  SHOULD  be  housed  in  a  minimum  footprint  of  36x18x18  tank  size  &  above.  No  way  are  they  going  to  grow  properly  in  your  24x18x18,  feel  happy  or  breed  inside  such  compressed  space.  Some  experienced  IAH  members  have  successfully  bred  Cans  in  their  tank  and  you  should  check  the  tank-size  they  ‘housed’  for  their  spawning  Cans.  Imagine  yourself  being  sheltered  at  cramped  cubicle  you  work  for  months  &  months."
 
 Yogesh,
 I  am  well  aware  of  the  housing  requirements  of  aquarium  fish,
 including  the  fact  that  they  can  be  stunted  in  a  smaller  aquarium.
 
 I  am  also  aware,  of  the  diufference  between  merely  "surviving"  and  "thriving"!
 
 Now,  before  you  jump  to  any  conclusions  and  use  the  term  "amateur",  I  used  the  word,  "housed"   without  ever  mentioning  the  fact  that  they  will  "thrive"  OR  the  fact  that  they  should  be  housed  for  life!  What  I  meant  rather  was  that  smaller  specimens  say  1  -2  inch  in  size  can  be  "housed"  in  a  24  X  18  X  18  inch  aquarium,  until  they  outgrow  it,  with  proper  care,  diet  and  regular  partial  water  changes!  I  should  perhaps  have  made  my  point  more  clear!But  then  again,  you  Assumed!  And  you  know  what  thye  say,  when  you  ASSUME,  you  make  an  ASS  out  of  U  and  ME!   ROFL  
 
 Also,  you  wrote  "Just  because  someone  expressed  some  opinion  on  foreign  forum  that  he  accommodated  them  in  a  particular  smaller  tank-size,  we  are  not  going  to  accept  it  on  face-value  that  he  successfully  gave  them  life.  Again  the  link  you  posted  have  a  reference  to  one  of  the  best  articles  written  by  our  system  admin  Ravi  contributed  by  Team  IAH.  So  you  are  requested  to  treat  IAH  as  a  serious  platform  to  discuss  serious  issues  very  seriously.  Period!"
 
 This  works  both  ways,  and  I  too  can  not  accept  the  opinions  of  the  members  of  this  forum  on  face  value!
 Everyone  has  a  right  to  their  own  opinions  and  their  own  approach  to  doing  things  differently,  more  so  in  the  aquarium  hobby!  I  think  you  need  to  understand  that!
 
 Finally..  "We  respect  your  personal  opinion.  But  your  like-minded  hobbyist  friend  Mr.Vidhyasagar  raised  concerns  about  growing  Indian  Population  issue  earlier  (Page  1).  According  to  him,  increasing  population  is  leading  to  lesser  &  lesser  natural  habitat  for  wildlife  to  thrive.  Per  him,  mounting  Density  of  Human  Population  (Total  Population  /Total  Land  Area)  is  becoming  serious  issue  affecting  wildlife  population.  So  I  just  wonder  why  you  are  using  different  yardsticks  for  humans  &  poor  fish."
 
 I  have  honestly  NO  IDEA  what  Mr.  Vidyasagar's  talking  about  and  why  is  he  being  quoted  as  my  "like-minded  hobbyist  friend".  I  am  NOT  using  any  "yardsticks"  ,  merely  stating  my  opinions  and  facts  which  I  am  aware  of  as  a  naturalist!
 
 Last  but  not  the  least  "So  you  are  requested  to  treat  IAH  as  a  serious  platform  to  discuss  serious  issues  very  seriously.  Period!"
 
 Do  you  think  I  was  "JOKING"  and  that  this  thread  was  started  as  a  "JOKE"?
 
 If  so,  I  personally  think  you  need  to  wake  up  and  smell  the  coffee  my  friend!
 
 Sincerely,
                        Javed  Jameer  Ahmed.
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