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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please
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Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please

 
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Ashu
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 Please  help  me  get  out  of  this  mess
 
 I  have  4  discus  for  more  than  1  year  now.   Tank  size  3  feet  X  15  inch  width  X  18  inch  high.  Sponge  filter  and  a  power  filter(  for  an  hour  or  so  per  day).They  are  around  5.5  inches  and  now  not  growing  so  I  presume  this  will  be  teir  final  size.  In  order  to  get  them  grow  faster,  I  had  kept  them  in  BB  ttank.  However  this  tank  being  in  my  living  room,  was  not  looking  good.   All  ub  good  health.
 So  decided  to  convert  it   it  into  planted  tank  and  here  all  wrong  started.  In   order  to  get  this  conversion   properly,  decided  to  ttake  help  from  LFS.  He  adviced  me  to  go  for  river  sand.  Though  I  was  of  opinion  that  for  tank  of  this  size  around  35  kg  sand  would  be  needed,  he  said  15  kg  would  be
 sufficient.  I  agreed  (due  to  cost)  but  asked  himto  bring  20  kg.
 Yesterday  night  he  started  setup.  He  removed  my  discus  and  put  it  in  a  bucket  with  sponge  filter  on.
 Then  he  washed  the  sand.  But   he  did  not  put  lot  of  effort  and  time.  Just  couple  of  rinsing  and  thats  all.  He  then   drained  all  the  reminaing  water  from  tank  and  did  setup  UGF  9using  pvc  pipes)  and  poured  the  sand.  Sand  height  is  around  1  1/2  inches.  in  front  and  around  1  3/4  at  back.
 Then  keeping  aplastic  on  top  of  sand  he  started  tap  to  fill  the  tank.  Water  became  cloudy.  He  started  my  poer  filter  and  said  it  will  suck  of  dirt  and  water  will  become  clear  in  4-6  hours.  He  will  come  at  today  evening  to   do  remaining  setup.
 Now  its  more  than  16  hrs  but  water  is  same.  I   did  75%  water  change  in  morning.  Still  same.  When  called  him,  he  said  to  stop  the  power  filter  and  let  dirt  settle  down  and  water  will  be  clear  soon.
 I   have  folowing  doubts
 
 1)  How  much  time  discus  can  safelt  remain  in  bucket  and  should  I  do  some  water  change  daily  there?
 2)  Will  possible  not  cleaning  sand  likely  to  cause  harm  to  discus?
 3)  Is  sand  depth  OK  for  time  being  ?
 4)  Is  it  OK  to  introduce  discus  in  tank  at  night(  assuming  water  becmes  clear)
 
 Any  additional  thing  I  need  to  do  or  take  some  precaution.
 
 Pl  advice  urgently
 
 Ashu
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ArnabPDas
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 I  am  not  a  discus  expert  but  your  situation  sounds  like  it  doesn't  need  expert  help,  but  it  does  need  urgent  help  alright  ...
 
 
 1)  How  much  time  discus  can  safelt  remain  in  bucket  and  should  I  do  some  water  change  daily  there?  
 
 Depends  on  the  Discus'  tenacity  towards  life  but  you  shoul  get  them  out  of  there  ASAP.
 
 
 2)  Will  possible  not  cleaning  sand  likely  to  cause  harm  to  discus?  
 
 Cleaning  is  not  as  much  necessary  as  is  disinfecting.  Getting  a  big  aluminium  tub  and  boliling  the  gravel  for  30  mins  would  be  ideal.
 
 3)  Is  sand  depth  OK  for  time  being  ?
 
 The  sand  depth  is  not  useful  to  the  fish  but  it  is  there  for  aesthetic  purposes  so  if  you  like  it  at  that  height  why  not?  But  for  a  planted  tank  it  will  be  rather  shallow,  not  to  mention  absense  of  any  nutrient  layer  making  it  extremely  hard  to  grow  most  plants.  It  is  fine  if  you  stick  to  object-rooting  plants
 
   
 4)  Is  it  OK  to  introduce  discus  in  tank  at  night(  assuming  water  becmes  clear)  
 
 It  is,  but  I  wonder  if  it  is  at  all  OK  to  introduce  discus  to  a  tank  which  is  about  to  enter  cycling  phase.
 
 I'm  sorry  but  I  get  a  bad  feeling  about  your  fish'  current  situation  ..
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ArnabPDas
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 Sorry  I  just  pointed  out  the  problems  but  I  should  have  said  something  that  tries  to  resolve  them  as  well.
 
 First  of  all  it  sounds  like  the  guy  you  have  engaged  does  not  care  much  about  the  welfare  of  the  fish,  but  that's  of  peripheral  interest  right  now.
 
 Make  sure  you  have  not  kept  the  fish  in  a  *new*  bucket  because  they  leach  harmful  substances  that  are  toxic  to  fish.  Then  arrange  for  a  temporary  bare-bottom  glass  tank  to  house  them  and  do  regular  water  changes  --  until  cycling  of  main  tank  completes.  The  guy  who  put  you  and  the  fish  through  this  trouble  bears  the  moral  responsibility  to  arrange  for  this.
 
 If  you  are  really  keen  on  a  planted  discus  tank  do  things  right  from  the  start.  Get  a  good  laterite-enriched  soil  substrate  for  the  bottom  1"-2"  (from  front  to  back)  and  then  put  1"-1.5"  layer  of  boiled  river  gravel  on  top  then  follow  the  usual  cycling  process  with  a  few  blue  gouramis.  I  perosnally  suggest  you  do  not  do  any  planting  for  initial  3  weeks  to  speed  up  the  cycling  process.  Do  not  let  your  current  filter  dry  up  since  it  probably  has  a  bit  of  bacteria  colony  already  --  use  it  in  the  main  tank  after  ou  have  laid  out  the  substrate.
 
 There  are  many  insightful  posts  in  the  planted  tank  forum  here  which  should  be  helpful  for  you  going  forward  regarding  lighting  and  other  things.  Good  luck.
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 What  type  of  plants  are  you  trying  to  grow  in  this  tank.
 With  less  than  2"  of  substrate,  you  can  go  in  for  stem  plants  only,  or  plants  above  substate  like  fern,  anubias.
 Further  UGF  is  never  considered  good  for  planted  tank.
 Also  sand  is  the  last  thing  you  should  use  in  UGS,  the  fine  sand  particles  will  go  below  the  grid  and  clog  the  UGF
 Taking  advice  form  LFS  is  the  worst  thing  to  do.
 What  is  the  grain  size  of  your  river  sand,  have  you  sieved  it.
 If  i  were  you,  I  would  go  in  for  a  complete  redo  of  the  tank,  before  you  put  your  discus  in.
 Throw  out  what  ever  he  has  put  in  your  tank,  put  the  discus  back  in  tank  with  filters.
 Read  planted  tank  forum,  gather  more  information  and  then  start  a  planted  discus  tank.
 Take  out  the  UGF,  take  out  all  sand,  first  sieve  it,  wash  it  properly,  so  that  the  water  turns  clear.
 The  depth  of  substrate  shuld  be  atleast  2-3",  for  a  proper  planted  tank.
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neoaqua
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 Hi  Ashu,
 
   Welcome  to  IAH.  Kindly  update  your  profile  with  your  location  so  that  experienced  aquarists  staying  in  your  area  can  help  you.
 
 I  have  no  experience  with  discuss.  But  I  can  tell  you  something  about  your  problem.  Before  that,  there  are  lot  of  material  on  similar  lines  already  in  this  forum,  particularly  planted  aquarium  section.  Go  through  them  and  most  of  your  doubts  will  be  cleared.
 
 As   for  UGF,  its  an  absolute  AVOID  for  a  planted  tank  as  someone  said  aptly  that  UGF  grows  lovely  roots,  not  lovely  plants.
 
 If  you  want  to  grow  rhizome  based  plants  that  absorbs  nutrients  from  the  water  column,  you  can  do  it  with  a  thin  layer  of  sand.  Some  stem  plants  will  do,  but  may  keep  floating  up  if  sand  layer  is  thin.
 
 If  you  absolutely  insist  on  UGF,  then  know  the  problems  beforehand.  Then  cover  the  UGF  plates  with  stocking  or  fine  meshed  nylon  net  or  similar  material  before  putting  the  sand  on  it  (and  then  it  has  too  be  a  thick  layer  of  sand  and  small  gravel).  Alternatively  you  can  try  reverse  flow  UGF  (though  I  don't  know  why  you  would  want  UGF  in  the  first  place!).
 
 And  finally  a  planted  tank  is  not  just  putting  some  substrate  and  putting  some  plants  inside  it.  You  have  to  follow  proper  procedures.  It  is  all  available  right  on  this  forum  in  details.
 
 Preserve  ALL  the  water  that  you  have  transferred  from  the  aquarium  to  the  bucket  and  do  not  switch  off  your  power  filter.  Put  the  water  back  into  the  aquarium  and  do  not  WASH  the  filter  with  water  from  outside  the  aquarium.  From  your  description  it  seems  that  you  have  already  taken  out  the  sponge  filter,  which  would  be  completely  dry  by  now.  I  hope  I  am  mistaken.  If  by  mistake,  you  destroy  all  your  bacteria  population,  your  tank  will  have  to  cycle  afresh.
 
 A  word  of  caution:  This  is  general  advice.  I  do  not  know  what  is  compatible  or  good  for  Discuss.  Discuss  experts  will  help  you  on  that.  But  in  future  avoid  disturbing  a  settled  tank  unless  you  know  what  you  are  doing.
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Ashu
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 Things  returned  to  sanity.  Removed  everything  and  discus  are  back  in  tank  (bare  bottom)  Eating  well  and  looking  normal
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 Good  to  know  your  discus  are  back  in  BB  tank.
 
 I  have  heard  sometimes  river  sand  takes  almost  a  week  or  more  to  settle  in  a  tank.  Discus  wouldn't  have  preferred  the  contaminated  water,  had  you  put  them  into  that  tank.
 
 Suggest  you  to  have  an  extra  tank  to  keep  discus  if  you  have  any  plans  to  move  them  to  planted  one  in  future.
 Discus  are  hardy  alright  but  still  no  fish  would  prefer  bucket.  Smile
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random2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 River  sand  can  easily  be  used  but  needs  quite  a  bit  of  cleaning.  It  took  1.5  days  for  me  to  prepare  sand  for  my  3footer.  Had  done  this  couple  of  months  back  and  when  I  setup  the  tank  few  days  back,  it  was  all  clear  in  4-5hours.  What  I  found  was,  the  more  it  is  cleaned  initially  the  less  headache  you  will  have  while  setting  up  the  tank.
 
 What  I  did  was  took  less  than  quarter  of  a  bucket  of  sand  at  a  time  and  wash  it  with  a  pressurized  hose  (houseold  pump  is  good  enough).  Did  it  6-8times  for  each  batch.  After  this,  I  sieved  it  under  water  to  segregate  fine  sand  and  coarser  ones.  You  need  to  do  lot  more  of  sieving  for  good  quantity  of  coarser  sand.
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 That's  a  relief  Smile  
 Get  a  2'nd  tank  and  set  it  up  a  planted  tank,  let  it  cycle  and  then  intorduce  your  discus  after  it  has  cycled.
 For  a  planted  tank  you  need  particles  between  2-3  mm.
 Simplest  way  of  doing  that  is  to  sieve  it  first  through  a  coarser  mesh  and  then  a  fine  mesh,  the  particles  in  between  would  be  2-3  mm.  Wash  them  thoroughly,  till  water  comes  out  clear.
 use  2"  of  this  as  base  substrate,  top  up  with  substrate  of  your  choice(if  you  want).  put  in  some  waer  from  your  exsisting  tank.
 put  in  your  filter  use  ,  plant  the  plants.  Introduce  some  fish  other  than  discus  for  cycling.
 After  atleast  you  can  start  by  transferring  your  fish  one  by  one.  Thumb Up
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mudjawd
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 Hi  Everyone,
 instead  of  starting  a  new  thread  for  the  same  topic  i  am  asking  the  experts  here  itself.
 i  have  a  tank  with  the  same  dimensions  and  i  have  african  cichlids  in  it.  i  am  planning  to  turn  it  into  discuss  tank.  definitely  the  idea  of  a  planted  discuss  tank  sounds  attractive.  here  are  the  issues  which  i  think  i  have  before  venturing  into  a  planted  discuss  tank.  please  correct  me  if  i  am  wrong  and  provide  a  solution  for  it.
 
 -----------------------------------------------------ISSUES--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 1.  gravel  will  add  up  to  the  grime  and  poop  acccumulation.  hence  requiring  more  water  change(and  not  effective  water  change  as  well)
 2.  if  i  consider  putting  CO2.  if  it  is  DIY  it  will  trouble  a  lot  with  the  PH  hence  weakening  the  discuss.
 3.  more  plants  means  more  cleaning  of  the  base  otherwise  rotting  leaves  will  provide  ideal  breeding  for  bacteria.
 4.  putting  hands  more  often  in  water  for  ctting  pruning  etc  will  freak  the  discuss  out.(doubts  as  someone  talked  about  feeding  them  with  hand).
 5.  do  i  need  to  clean  20%  water  each  day  or  50%  a  week  will  be  fine.  i  won't  put  more  than  4  fish  in  my  tank.
 
 what  all  i  need  to  take  care  of??
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Planted Disuc tank - urgent guidance please Reply with quote

 That  is  excatly  the  reason  why  discus  in  planted  tanks  are  a  rarity.  Very Happy  
 The  plants  in  discus  tank  should  be  mainly  rosette,  low  maintainence,  ferns,  anubias,  echinodorous,vals  etc.  avoid  stem  plants  (this  will  take  care  of  frequent  pruning).
 DIY  Co2  cannot  be  used,  presurrised  is  best,  fertilization  at  minimum.
 Growing  discus  in  such  tanks  would  not  be  easy,  semi  grown  adults  might  be  best.
 You  cannot  feed  BHM  etc.  in  these  tanks.
 In  tank  of  this  size  I  don't  think  you  can  have  more  than  2  discus  adults.
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