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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Automated Water Changes
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Automated Water Changes
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Dear  Friends,
 I  was  thinking  of  doing  automatic  water  changes,  similar  to  that  of  auto  water  top  off.  I  have  based  the  system  on  the  basis  that  the  Pumps  and  Float  Switches  will  be  placed  in  the  Sump...  for  a  planted  tank..  if  you  can  provide  an  extension  of  your  tank  or  make  a  small  4X4   chamber  inside  your  tank  and  place  the  float  switches  in  the  tank  then  this  system  can  also  be  used  to  do  Automatic  water  changes...
 
 I  wanted  to  do  the  circuit  with  the  use  of  ONLY  2  Float  Switches  and  I  have  designed  the  circuit  using  Triple  input  AND  gates  and  NOT  Gates  as  shown.
 
 The  upper  Float  (RED)  is  the  top  of  the  sump  upto  which  you  want  the  water  to  be  re-filled,  and  Lower  Float  (GREEN)  is  at  the  near  bottom  of  the  sump  upto  which  you  want  to  drain  the  water.
 
 The  upper  Float  (RED)  shall  be  ON  When  the  water  level  is  below,  (When  we  switch  on  the  ON  Button,  I  assume  the  water  level  to  be  below  the  upper  Float,  so  that  the  Circuit  will  turn  ON),  and  when  water  level  is  above  the  Float,  it  is  in  OFF  mode.  The  Lower  Float  (GREEN)  works  on  the  opposite  i.e.,  ON  When  water  level  is  above  the  float  and  OFF  when  water  Level  is  below  the  Float.
 
 Actually  this  Circuit  has  an  undesirable  state  as  to  when  the  circuit  is  first  turned  ON,  whether  the  AND  gate  2  will  be  on  or  Gate  3  will  be  on  is  ambiguous  as  the  inputs  are  from  each  other.
 
 Hence  I  need  to  insert  a  DELAY  Circuit  at  the  input  of  GATE  3  from  GATE  1.  This  will  make  the  Gate  3  output  as  0  and  when  NOTed  the  input  to  the  Lower  Float  is  1  and  AND  Gate  2  Output  is  1  to  make  the  Drain  pump  run.  The  Delay  was  inserted  using  a  Capacitor  and  Resistor..
 
 When  water  LEVEL  Changes  from  C  to  B  during  FILL,  not  the  Area  Marked  in  GREY,  At  this  place  the  lower  Float  is  in  ON  position,  the  input  to  the  LOWER  FLOAT  is  ZERO  hence  the  OUTPUT  into  the  AND  GATE  is  ZERO.
 
 As  assumed  above  and  when  the  water  reaches  the  desired  levels  as  shown  in  the  tabulation,  first  the  DRAIN  pump(drain  pump  is  placed  in  the  Sump)  is  ON,  When  the  Water  level  Reaches  the  Lower  Float,  the  DRAIN  is  OFF  and  FILL  PUMP  (Fill  Pump  is  placed  inside  the  water  source  for  the  tank)  is  ONed.  Once  the  Water  is  FILLED  to  Upper  Float,  the  Entire  Circuit  is  Turned  OFF  and  AND  1  output  is  0.
 
 So  just  by  pressing  the  ON  button  the  Drain  pump  is  ON  draining  the  water  to  the  level  of  the  Lower  Float  and  once  the  water  level  reaches  the  Lower  Float  the  Drain  pump  is  OFF  and  the  FILL  pump  is  on  sending  fresh  water  onto  the  tank  and  when  the  water  level  reaches  the  upper  float  level  the  FILL  Pump  is  OFF  and  the  Entire  Circuit  Turns  Off.....  
 
 The  Switching  on  and  Off  of  the  circuit  can  be  attached  to   a  Timer  or  a  Counter  Switch  to  make  the  automatic  water  changes  without  even  you  pressing  the  button!!!...  all  but  one  issue  you  -  you  need  to  maintain  the  NEW  water  level  in  the  FILL  PUMP  Chamber   to  pump  water  back  into  the  Tank!!!!
 
 I  have  added  the  working  schematic  of  the  Automatic  water  change...  the  relays  will  control  the  Drain/fill  pumps...
 
 The  circuit  is  the  schematic  of  the  diagram  i  had  first  posted  with  the  gates...  with  the  additions  of  the  Resistor/Capacitor  at  AND  Gate  for  the  Time  Delay  to  eliminate  the  initial  redundancy.
 
 The  other  two  resistors  at  the  float  switches  were  provided  as  to  the  circuit  didnt  work  properly  if  they  were  not  there,  hence  i  have  provided  them.
 
 The  ULN2004  is  a  Relay  Driver  as  it  helps  (this  is  a  inverted  Relay  Driver  i.e.,  if  the  input  is  1  the  output  is  0  and  if  the  input  is  0  the  output  is  1).
 
 Any  comments  are  welcome..  once  the  PCB  is  in  place  will  post  that  also.  
 
 a  small  err  in  the  Diagram,  the  Float  Switches  have  been  indicated  wrongly,  the  LOWER  Float  is  Actually  the  UPPER  Float  and  Vice  Versa.  Sorry  for  the  Inconvenience
 
 to  avoid  any  misunderstanding,  these  are  my  own  circuits  and  my  own  design..  i  made  the  same  posting  on  reefCentral  to  get  their  opinion  on  it  and  check  out  the  DIY  section  there  


Last edited by Perikaruppan on Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:38 pm; edited 3 times in total
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random2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Is  the  text  written  by  you?  Not  meaning  to  offend  you,  but  the  hot  linking  from  another  forum  shows  otherwise.  If  its  not  yours,  please  give  due  credit  to  the  author  and  just  the  link  to  the  page/thread.
 
 Again  no  offense  meant  if  you  are  the  original  author.
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raindeepak4u
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Perikaruppan  sir,  nice  idea...
      my  point  of  view  i  will  give  2  ideas.
 
 1.  Instead  of  fully  depends  on  gates  go  with  microcontroller  like  basic  89C51.  you  can  easly  design  timer,  delay  and  sensing  circuits  in  one  IC  itself  ,it  is  reliable  and  accurate.you  can  design  fully  automatomated..
 
 2.Second  one  it  that  using  relays  and  relay  driver  go  with  SCRs  its  give  you  two  benefits  1.long  life  2.cost
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

                                                   
random2  wrote  (View  Post):                
Is  the  text  written  by  you?  Not  meaning  to  offend  you,  but  the  hot  linking  from  another  forum  shows  otherwise.  If  its  not  yours,  please  give  due  credit  to  the  author  and  just  the  link  to  the  page/thread.
 
 Again  no  offense  meant  if  you  are  the  original  author.                

 
 Deepak,  he  is  a  DIY  guru.  I'm  sure  you  may  be  rest  assured  about  the  chances  of  copy-paste  content.
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Hi  Shankar,  thanks  for  your  Confidence!!!  actually  it  is  me  who  posted  on  ReefCentral  too...
 
 Hi  Random2:Deepak,  it  was  my  posting  on  ReefCentral..  i  think  you  forgot  to  check  out  who  posted  it  on  ReefCentral  and  also  check  out  the  the  gallery  over  there..  i  didnt  want  to  upload  it  here  and  hence  i  gave  the  same  picture  link...  i  guess  the  picture  link  is  not  working  now...  need  to  upload  it  now....  well  the  text  was  more  or  less  the  same  on  ReefCentral  -  (too  tired  of  typing  again)  as  i  had  a  few  issues  with  my  circuit  initially  which  was  ironed  out  by  those  guru's  and  my  stuff  ended  up  working.
 
 Deepak,  i  totally  agree  with  your  view  of  using  Microcontrollers..  what  i  found  was  that  we  need  to  program  them  initially  and  that  sets  up  another  additional  circuit  to  that..  but  i  wanted  a  basic  circuit  that  any  one  can  do  with  ease..  and  this  Water  Changer  is  basic  in  utility  that  will  serve  quite  a  purpose  especially  people  who  are  into  marine...  I  can  link  my  Automatic  water  changes  (top  off)  circuit  to  this  water  change  circuit  easily  just  by  using  a  counter  and  a  dip  switch  to  select  the  timing..  and  no  need  of  timers  or  anything  in  there...  
 
 Many  people  use  timers  to  do  such  stuff,  but  since  i  wanted  to  avoid  timers  etc.  etc.,  the  whole  setup  costs  as  that  of  a  frontier  timer  with  the  floats  thats  all...  and  much  cheaper  than  that  avaiable  online  for  TOP  OFF's...  and  there  is  not  many  available  for  Water  changes  and  there  is  one  that  is  too  damn  expensive  -  check  out  the  RTOM  on  ReefCentral,  that  guy  has  got  it  installed  and  its  freaking  expensive....
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Thanks  for  posting  it  here.  And  sorry  if  you  got  irritated  by  my  post.  I  have  seen  some  people  posting  such  things  at  times.  ReefCentral  is  pretty  restrictive  in  public  access,  couldnt  see  your  profile  unless  im  a  registered  member  and  neither  could  I  find  your  post  in  the  DIY  threads  (maybe  I  didnt  check  properly).
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raindeepak4u
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 I   am  also  not  interested  in  microcontrollers  .  but  the  practical  experience  gives  me  the  few  drawbacks  of  gates  and  relays   thats  why  am  telling  sir...
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 You  are  welcome,  Peri.  Though  being  a  student  of  Electronics,  it  is  the  lack  of  interest;  more  interest  in  fishy  affairs  rather,  that  makes  the  above  circuit  diagram  scratch  my  head.   Chuckle
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Severumkid
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Why  dont  you  start  selling  these,  once  you  have  perfected  the  system.  I  can  be  a  sure  shot  buyer,  if  I  get  it  in  my  reach.  My  wife  will  bless  you.   Chuckle
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Shankar  i  am  too  an  Electronics  guy!!!...  
 
 Random2:  no  worries..ReefCentral  you  can  go  read  the  articles  if  you  want  to....  but  posting  or  accessing  images   might  be  restricted..  its  free  to  register  and  its  a  really  worthy  site,  some  guys  out  there  are  actually  Gods  in  Marine..
 
 Deepak  these  gates  dont  get  switched  on  an  off  on  a  regular  basis..  just  once  a  month..  and  even  if  they  conk  out  replacement  is  only  10Rs  for  each  chip  and  only  2  chips  are  operational...  so  looking  into  those  factors  i  went  with  this  simple  design  (actually  pretty  complicated  it  was  to  think  it  through).
 
 Debarghya:  The  system  has  been  perfected.  Even  the  Auto  Top  Off  for  my  Sump  is  working  perfectly  without  any  issues...  DIY  is  just  to  get  stuff  more  affordable  for  me  and  my  friends  out  here  on  IAH  as  most  of  the  stuff  for  marine  is  not  available  out  here  as  well  as  to  quench  my  thirst  for  doing  things  by  myself  -  get  a  lotta  satisfaction  that  way....  All  the  systems  in  my  fish  room  are  totally  made  by  me  -  except  the  motors  and  aerators!!!.  
 If  you  are  interested  I  dont  mind  doing  one  and  sending  it  across...  pm  for  the  costings  if  interested
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

                                                   
Perikaruppan  wrote  (View  Post):                
except  the  motors!!!.  
                 

 
 And  this  is  what  you  should  be  working  on!  1000  gph  on  a  5W  power  draw.
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Shreyasmrao
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Hi  Peri,  after  reading  your  article  you  have  for  sure  short  circuited  my  fuse   Smile  
 
 I  love  DIY  (and  also  the  savings).  Would  like  to  visit  your  fishy  room  and  your  self  built  systems  if  possible  some  day.
 
 I  dont  know  how  your  system  will  work  on  my  tank,  as  I  dont  have  a  seperate  sump...  would  like  to  get  some  first  hand  live  information  from  you.
 
 It  is  a  very  interesting  solution  for  a  painful  job  of  water  change...  could  I  have  your  contact  information  if  you  dont  mind.
 
 Thanks
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Severumkid
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Joined: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 3012
Location: Hyderabad

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Hi  Peri,  I  hope  you  do  not  mind  me  calling  you  that  as  you  have  a  very  long  but  nice  name.
 
 I  am  so  useless  with  things  that  I  need  stuff  that  I  can  simply  plug  and  play.  If  I  can  plug  and  play  your  system  for  all  5  of  my  tanks  or  at  least  4  of  them,  I  am  sure  shot  in  this  deal.
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ramsarma1972
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Dear  Peri,
 
 I  have  seen  ready  off  the  shelf  switches  offered  by  V-Guard  for  automatic  starting  and  stopping  of  electric  pumps  for  use  with  wells  /  sumps  to  lift  water  to  overhead  tanks.  That  system  also  makes  use  of  floats  for  the  maximum  and  minimum  level  in  the  target  tank.  I  am  sure  the  same  can  be  used  and  you  would  be  able  to  do  a  bit  of  re-engineering  to  suit  our  needs.  
 
 I  would  say  the  greater  challenge  would  be  to  create  a  devise  that  will  be  able  to  determine  when  a  water  change  is  required  based  on  specific  parameters  and  then  control  this  ready  made  device.  Any  thoughts  ????
 
 For  your  information  i  am  a  new  member  into  this  forum  and  am  not  an  engineer.  The  idea  of  automated  water  changes  appealed  to  me  and  hence  this  note.
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Automated Water Changes Reply with quote

 Rahul  Boss...  may  be  we  shall  start  a  company  together  to  get  that  motor  going!!!...
 
 Shreyas:  I  hope  getting  the  fuse  short  circuited  is  for  the  better  and  not  for  the  worse  Very Happy      Chuckle   I  use  the  sump  to  hide  my  float  switches  (two  of  them)  and  the  DRAIN  pump  from  my  main  tank.  If  you  can  find  a  place  in  your  tank  to  hide  them,  or  can  drop  the  float  switches  and  Pump  into  the  tank  when  doing  the  W/c  then  the  system  shall  work.  but  that  will  make  the  water  change  still  job  oriented  -  u  need  to  take  the  floats  and  pump  and  drop  them  into  your  tank,  i  am  too  lazy  to  do  that     Chuckle  Chuckle   ...  can  call  on  me  anytime  9884287877...  
 
 Debargaya:  actually  my  calling  name  is  further  shorter  than  what  you  mentioned  -  PK    to  my  friends..  so  no  issues  with  that.  The  system  is  a  plug  and  play  model  only...  where  there  will  be  two  float  switches  and  one  DRAIN  pump  placed  into  the  tank  which  u  need  to  drain...  as  told  to  shreyas,  if  you  dont  have  a  sump  can  make  the  model  such  that  you  drop  the  floats  and  pump  into  your  tank  at  the  time  of  water  change  and  turn  it  on.  Once  the  W/c  is  over  pull  them  out  of  your  tank.  
 
 I  shall  later  attach  the  pic  for  the  way  the  floats  are  attached  in  my  automatic  water  top  off  system,  the  floats  are  attached  to  the  Acrylic  base  that  can  be  hung  in  your  sump  or  your  tank.  If  you  had  come  for  Aquatica  2008  i  had  shown  it  there...  placed  that  image  somewhere...  will  upload  soon.
 
 ramsarma1972:  I  know  what  you  are  talking  about.  The  System  is  used  for  sending  water  up  to  your  overhead  tanks  automatically  when  there  is  no  water  in  your  tank.  But  that  system  works  on  the  basis  that  when  the  water  is  below  the  Lower  Float  (lowest  water  level  Float  Switch)  it  turns  on  the  motor  @  the  sump  that  pumps  the  water  to  the  overhead  tank  and  when  the  water  reaches  the  top  float  level  it  turns  it  off  and  that  systems  cost  over  twice  that  of  my  stuff...  whereas  here  we  need  to  first  drain  the  water  from  the  tank  within  a  particular  level  then  fill  that  same  level  with  new  water  so  the  concept  of  the  system  is  different.  And  the  float  that  they  use  in  that  system  are  different  and  not  safe  for  Salt  Water  purposes...  I  have  used  that  system  for  most  of  the  Apartments  that  we  develop  out  here.
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