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Chinoy
Regular Poster on IAH
Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 273
Location: Bangalore
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 Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:24 am Post subject: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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Im making this post due to the surprising amount of people who are keen on the idea off cutting down on water change.
Thanks for the Pms and support
First let me assure you that it is very much doable. We can have huge and drastic reduction in the amount of water that can be saved.
Just do a Google and you will find tons of locations across the world with huge tanks and or huge number of small tanks who have pulled it off.
Im not looking to make it 100% self sufficient just drastic drop as are most of your. If I can cut it down from 25 Buckets a week to 5 Id be happy. If I can get it down to 1 bucket perfect.
The stumbling block to my plans is dealing with the Nitrates in the water.
Its only a problem because I haven't been able to find the chemical or process which when added to the water will react with Nitrate and convert it into Nitrogen which escapes into the air in India.
You can buy this stuff online but importing it will cost a bit.
So if you have cheap local source or can figure out a way for us to deal with the Nitrate in the water other than by water change it would help the cause.
Ive contacted quite a few people who are maintaining their tanks without water change and this is the product they all seem to rave about.
http://www.memory-doctor.com/Aqua/rightnowfw.html
Dont worry about the other issues. Those have very simple and easy to implement solutions. This is our main challenge.
Ill continue to dig for info and post up if any is found. If you find anything or can help with info pls post up.
I have a few friends who work in this field will ask them also for ideas. |
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rahulk
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Posts: 951
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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bacteria which removes nitrate aerobically ........ probably snake oil 
You can try de-nitrator, but you need to tinker with it a lot to get it right. |
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madhu_ulysses
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Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 2450
Location: Salem, TN
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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If reduction of nitrates is possible by aerobic bacteria, all tanks will naturally be having them without adding any product. Unless and until there is proof that nitrates can be reduced to nitrogen by Aerobic Bacteria, any such claim will be discarded. There is a proven theory that Anaerobic bacteria can eliminate nitrates and hence De-Nitrator systems.
By the way if the product costs $18 or Rs.864 for a 60 gallon tank, in most cities in India you can buy a full tanker lorry of water for less than that cost. And when it comes to making waterchanges for that tank, say about 25% WC for the same tank, all you would need is 3 buckets or just 55 litres of water (considering a bucket full is about 20 litrs) for a week which comes to just 156 buckets a year. |
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garothmaan
Committed Member of IAH
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 3506
Location: Mumbai, Bharat (AKA...INDIA)
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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I use a simple pipe to flush out all the water from the tank, and again fill-up with the same pipe...
If it rains, it rains everywhere, not just on lakes or rivers etc..... it rains on roads, roofs, junk yards etc etc... so "ALSO" tell the heavenly ruler not to waste water.
its just a thought...NO OFFENSE PLEASE..  |
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oscarmadness
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Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 306
Location: KOLKATA
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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@Chinoy..
Apart from reducing Nitrates and Nitrites, there are other advantages in doing water changes. So your idea of introducing a chemical to the tank for reducing Nitrates and cutting down on water changes is going to take you no where...
1. If there is a chemical found effectively neutralizing Nitrates, then the chemical reaction will also have a byproduct.. Who has researched or will gurantee how safe is the by product for your live stock over a period of time..?
2. Usage of these chemicals might delay your nitrogen cycle, the nitrosomnas and nitrobacter not only breaks down NH3 , NO2, it also compliments fish's immune system and well being in the tank..
3. Chemicals should be avoided by any cost.. Rid All AntiChlorine. Since the bottle says there is no harm in overdosing - people to be on the safe side lots of them dose it heavily. This is what happens, if you dose more than your PPM concentration of Chlorine, then the additional solution would create a very fine sedimentations in your tank.. on your heater and other accessories on the long run. Which can only be removed by doing water changes.. Obviosuly you know there are other advantages in doing changes with fresh water often...
I have a sincere request... I can really understand your strong science and engineering acumen.. you inquisitveness of knowing every detail..In bengali we have two statements "Shune Shekha" (Learn by listening), "Theke Shekha" (Learn by facing/experiencing/suffering).. No doubts the second one is the best, but since these are your initial days in the hobby, it is still preferred that for the initial period you just simply listen to what the experts say here.. once you do that, over a period of time all your questions would get answered automatically...
On taking the second route your initial experiences may be sorrowful and i can gurantee more casualties in your tank... For kids, they by nature follow the first route..
Sorry for the long post.. but have been following some of your earlier posts.. wanted to put forward my suggestion.. you are the owner - you have the final call..
Regards
Subhankar |
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rohansd
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Joined: Jul 01, 2005
Posts: 1545
Location: Pune
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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| garothmaan wrote (View Post):
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If it rains, it rains everywhere, not just on lakes or rivers etc..... it rains on roads, roofs, junk yards etc etc... so "ALSO" tell the heavenly ruler not to waste water.
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That was a bad analogy.
He has put down a serious thought. If you wish to counter him, do it sensibly. If you think he is wrong, you can convey it to him without ridiculing him. |
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garothmaan
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Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 3506
Location: Mumbai, Bharat (AKA...INDIA)
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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@Rohan
With all due respect, I "am" not ridiculing him please.  his effort on bringing down the water changes it self is ridiculous....
I have understood on IAH "more water changes..more good health for fish"
so what was not sensible in that post... PLEASE EXPLAIN! |
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Chinoy
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Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 273
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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Thanks Rahul I will try it.
As a guy whom makes products most people call snake oil ie over 50% reduction in all emissions and 30% increase in mileage and power.
I keep an open mind. As long as there are an endless line of people reporting that it works Im happy. To sell or buy such products.
my take is Ill try it once
Also the US Govt. does not issue patents on snake oil.
The more I read about this the more I think we could achieve similar results with just good quality carbon.
And using the same setup ie water turn over and return line above water line etc etc.
I will also source one batch of this to get their bacteria into my tank and media and start testing.
You may want to read some of the links where their products have been tested look for a forum where guy called snake is posting he is the guy who has filled the patent.
Cost of water ? When your in an Appt. complex on the 4th floor ?
People who believe in conservation do they drive electric motors because its cheap ?
No they do it because they have some ideals and beliefs. Everything in life is not about whats the cheapest route.
This is how we get side tracked into discussing stuff which has nothing to do with the topic. And everybody jumps in chasing each others tails. making a lot of noise with no progress.
We will get to the trace elements a little latter in the plan its not a big deal.
Solving this problem is the biggest deal.
Can we keep this one post clean and to the point please. This is my last attempt at having a serious discussion here.
An interesting read.
http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle-archive/23359-right-now-bacteria-hiatt-system-mini-review.html |
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Whitesnake
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Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Mumbai ( malad ) West
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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Dear Rohan,
I am not sure how serious the thought could be or would be.
But one thing I am sure of if I want to keep my fish happy I have to do water change once a week if my fish are Discu then every day.
Now if I want to escape this then I do not think I should be keeping fish in the first place.
The post from what I understood is saying how I can escape water change.
Regards,
Clive |
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garothmaan
Committed Member of IAH
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 3506
Location: Mumbai, Bharat (AKA...INDIA)
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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| Whitesnake wrote (View Post):
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Dear Rohan,
The post from what I understood is saying how I can escape water change.
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Ofcourse Yes Dear Clive...... you are right thats what he is saying .......Ron you are over doing it :)
its like that old bava saying chaar anay ki murgi aur baaranay kaa masala. |
Last edited by garothmaan on Wed May 20, 2009 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rasikanayak
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Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 2927
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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Uhhhh,
Chinoy, Not meaning to ridicule or anything. But your belief in patenting capability of USA and the USA government is overrated.
Here is a site, since you like to Google everything before you post. I have linked only one site, but there are many.
http://www.patentlysilly.com/
Madan clearly said something about re-inventing the wheel. But I have to give it to you, you are tenacious.
Regards,
Nayak. |
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pree
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Joined: Nov 19, 2007
Posts: 463
Location: Mumbai
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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My issue with water changes is just the wasted water. My fish are and will remain my first priority, but having a discus tank, I do cringe when a lot of water goes to waste. I used some simple things like reducing bioload drastically and then do water changes alternate days in my tank.
I feel until extensive research is done, using a chemical in your tank is just not done... |
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garothmaan
Committed Member of IAH
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 3506
Location: Mumbai, Bharat (AKA...INDIA)
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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| you should go for salt water fish then....salt water, its in abundance on earth...70% |
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Whitesnake
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Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Mumbai ( malad ) West
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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Dear All,
Dear All,
I would like to mention some thing here If I am wrong the I am wrong .
I love keeping fish and I have been doing so since I was a small boy who went to school.
Well I strongly believe that if I want to keep my fish friends happy and want them to grow to the best size possible then the only way it can be done is by regular water change.
Now I cannot compare a automobile to my fish tank I cannot and I am not sure if any one here can?
Well now finding a way out to escape water change because of what ever reasons there is then in the first place I should not be keeping fish at all.
Reason being I am sure any one who gets into this wonderful hobby would first know that water change is very important for keeping fish healthy.
Now for some one to come up with an idea to not do water change or reduce the water change due to less water and so on and then compare some other country with the current country you live in is not making any sense.
Well the basic is healthy fish regular water change
So I have no idea where this post will lead or who would blame whom for what ever reason but yes I do know that some one, who joins this site new and had no idea about keeping fish, should first always do their home work well and then only get into this hobby.
Moderator you can deleat this reply if you think this does not make sense.
Regards, |
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ramki600014
IAH New Member
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. |
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| As was pointed out earlier, water changes help in more than removing nitrogenous waste - they also reduce concentration of growth inhibitors and other hormones. |
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