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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Help me choose fertilizer..:help:
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Help me choose fertilizer..Help
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Sam11
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:54 pm Post subject: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 Hello  Guys,
 
 Just  required  a  help  regarding  fertilizer  which  is  cheap  and  that  which  does  not  make  water  muddy  that  I  can  use  ,as  my  tank  is  only  1.5  ft  and  I  am  a  beginner.....I  am  using  river  sand...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 No  reply...  Sad
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 Sam11,
 
 Kindly  give  us  a  brief  description  of  your  setup.  Like  size,  Flora,  Fauna,  Lights,  CO2  etc  etc.  Will  help  us  to  understand  your  needs  better.
 
 Regards,
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 I  am  a  beginner...I  have  10G  tank....Lights  will  be  10watts  or  lower  (Low  light  as  on  described  in  EI)  I  have  guppies  and  neon  tetra..No  CO2  if  required  at  later  stage  will  use  DIY..will  use  river  Sand....Plants  will  be  few  stem  like  crypts,  cobamba,  star  grass....and  planning  a  bed  of  some  plants  which  could  adapt  this  system...
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sam22sam
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 Ok.  It  all  depends  on  the  type  of  substrate  that  you  use,  the  plants  that  are  in  the  tank  and  the  bioload  in  the  tank.
 
 River  sand  is  pretty  much  without  nutrients  or  the  ability  to  hold,  lock  and  disperse  nutrients.  Therefore  all  the  nutrients  that  you  plants  will  derive  will  be  out  of  the  water  column.
 
 Next  is  the  plants  -  you  mentioned  star  grass  (staurogyne?)  ;  Cobomba'&  Stem  plants  -  Most  of  these  will  require  better  lighting  than  1  W  per  gallon  -   it  will  require  2  to  3  W  per  gallon.  Therefore  you  will  have  to  get  atleast  30w  of  light  especially  for  the  staurogyne.  Crypts  dont  reqiure  high  light.  Also  stem  plants  take  a  lot  of  nutrients  to  grow  dense  and  give  you  the  look  that  you  would  need.  You  will  also  require  co2  for  these  plants  that  you  mention.
 
 With  the  hardware  that  you  have  right  now,  I  would  recommend  you  look  at  a  plants  that  can  be  grown  in  low  tech  tanks  like  -  Anubias,  crypts,  ferns,  moss  etc.  However  if  you  really  want  to  grow  the  plants  that  you  want  to,  then  please  upgrade.
 
 Start  by  using  a  substrate  that  is  able  to  lock  in  nutrients  and  is  nutrient  rich,  like  JBL  ,  ADA,  etc.  Also  you  will  need  co2.  From  what  I  have  heard  DIY  is  difficult  to  maintain  but  thats  just  me  and  it  might  be  just  a  perception.  You  will  defenitely  need  higher  wattage  in  lighting  which  is  around  6,500kelvin  and  you  will  need  ferts.  There  are  many  liquid  fert  systems  that  you  can  use  ADA,  Ocean  free,  Seachem  etc  or  you  can  go  for  EI  with  KNO2,  KHPO4  and  micros.
 
 Please  decide  which  path  you  would  like  to  go  down  and  then  you  will  know  what  to  do.  Also  there  are  sub-forums  in  IAH  for  water  chemistry,  fertilizingt  and  lighting  that  you  might  want  to  peek  at  and  get  familiar  with.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 Sam11  -  10-20G  is  a  good  start  for  beginners.  Once  you  get  better  understanding,  you  would  obviously  want  to  upgrade  with  the  options  that  you  cant  explore  in  your  10G.
 
 For  now,  have  a  simple  setup,  if  I  am  at  your  situation  I  would  not  spend  much  on  advanced/professional  substrate/ferts...etc.
 
 Being  a  beginner,  I  would  spend  less  and  try  with  minimum  available  resources,  this  enable  me  to  learn  and  understand  this  lovely  hobby.
 
 Substrate  -  
 1)  Get  some  vermicompost  or  wormcompost(pure),  for  a  10G  use  3-4  tsps  as  a  bottom  layer.  Dont  use  a  lot,  otherwise  you  will  end  up  in  an  algae  farm   Thumbs Up  
 2)  Get  pure  laterite  as  the  second  layer,  this  will  give  you  iron  and  high  CEC  to  hold  nutrients  from  compost
 3)  use  Aqua  Clay  as  third  layer,for  bacterial  growth.(this  layer  is  optional)
 4)  Top  layer  river  sand  or  some  fine  substrate.
 
 You  are  good  to  go!
 
 Do  not  add  fish  till  you  complete  your  cycle.
 
 You  can  dose  Potassium  Nitrate,Potassium  Sulphate,Potassuium  Phosphate,Magnessium  Sulphate,Chealted  Iron  and  other  micros.  Read  forums  for  dosage  amounts.
 
 Good  luck.
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GokulK
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 May  be  bump  your  lights  to  20W  after  summer,  not  more  than  that!  I  see  you  live  in  mumbai,  during  this  summer  the  temperature  would  raise  up  to  35C,  increasing  the  wattage  will  further  increase.  This  will  reduce  the  amount  of  Co2  and  O2  in  water,  it  will  lead  to  stunted  plants  growth  and  fish  stress.
 
 Recommended  plants  for  10G,
 
 Dwarf  Sags,  Anubias  nana,moss  types,  narrow  leaf  fern  and  other  low  light  tanks.  Vals  will  also  do.
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Sunny_2K_99
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 +1  GokulK
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Sam11
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 Thanks  @GokulK  &  @Sunny_2K_99....
 
 @  GokulK  :  Is  it  true  that  vermicompost  spike  the  ammonia  in  the  tank...So  it  needs  to  be  cycled...
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GokulK
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 Sam  -  Yes.  It  is  very  true  it  will  spike  ammonia  levels.  But  only  for  first  few  weeks,  I  would  say  first  15  days.  So,  do  not  add  macro  or  micro  for  atleast  2  weeks.
 
 Plants  like  Cabomba  and  Rotatla  can  be  used  in  the  initial  phases  to  avoid  algae  boom,  plants  like  these  would  suck  up  most  of  the  nitrate/ammonia.
 
 Plants  depend  either  on  their  root  system  or  water  column  to  get  nutrients.  Remember  there  is  no  harm  in  having  tons  of  fertilizers  under  the  substrate,  but  when  it  is  released  in  to  the  water  column  that  is  when  we  get  in  to  trouble.  Reason  is  simple,  Algae  cannot  grow  under  the  substrate   Thumb Down  
 
 Also,  donot  leak  or  disturb  your  layers,  this  will  breach  the  nutrients  leaking  in  to  water  column.
 
 Slowly,  start  your  tank,  there  are  many  seniors  in  IAH  can  help  you.
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Athreyan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 Sam,
 Didn't  really  understand  your  query.  Do  you  already  have  plants,  or  are  you  planning  on  keeping  some?  What  do  you  aim  to  do?  Are  the  plants  your  main  target  or  do  you  want  to  keep  plants  as  an  add  on  to  fish?
 
 If  you  don't  already  have  plants,  your  worries  about  ferts  need  be  a  bit  further  along  the  way.  first  you  have  to  correctly  decide  on  what  plants  you  want  to  have.  what  lights  will  be  optimum  for  those.  what  substrate  you  want/need  to  use.  In  any  case,  you  don't  really  have  to  start  dosing  ferts  from  day  1  of  planting.
 
 So  first  get  your  plan  sorted  out.
 
 Start  with  something  like  a  workflow  plan:
 How  big  is  my  tank?
 what  plants  do  I  want  to  keep?
 what  substrate  is  needed  for  those  plants?  Is  substrate  important  for  those  plants?
 How  much  light  I  will  need  for  those  plants?
 
 or  you  could  do  the  reverse  of  this...  first  prioritize  your  lights,  substrate  etc,  and  then  think  about  what  plants  can  be  kept  in  those  conditions.
 
 In  my  opinion,  the  second  method  is  a  good  way  to  keep  a  check  on  your  expenses.
 
 And  because  you  already  have  fish  in  your  tank,  it  would  be  a  risk  to  plant  in  the  tank  as  your  ammonia  levels  would  spike  &  that  would  be  dangerous  for  fish.  If  you  plan  to  do  an  altogether  new  setup,  make  sure  you  make  arrangements  to  keep  your  fish  safe  &  healthy  for  that  time  period.  You  may  have  to  cycle  another  tank  or  a  plastic  tub/bucket  or  something  like  that  beforehand.
 
 PS:  Why  would  you  think  any  fertilizer  would  make  your  tank  muddy?!?!
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Sam11
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 I  am  planning  to  make  a  new  setup...as  my  current  setup  has  gravels  which  are  big  so  have  brought  river  sand  so  that  I  can  start  with  plants...
 So  with  river  sand  and  will  again  read  on  EI  method  and  then  decide  which  ferts  are  necessary/not  for  the  plants  I  choose....
 
 @Athreyan:  Muddy  means  cloudy  water..sorry  if  you  misunderstood...as  mine  is  a  very  small  tank  evn  small  movements  in  plants  will  make  the  tank  cloudy...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 I  asked  because  I'm  yet  to  come  across  any  fertilizer  that  makes  water  cloudy  or  muddy  or  whatever.  Liquid  ferts  are  usually  clear,  and  they  mix  readily  into  the  water  column.  dry  ferts  also  do  not  cloud  water.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 @Athreyan  :  okk  ...  Thumb Up  ...By  the  way  ...EI  method  is  good  for  beginners  I  hope...It'll  help  me  learn  a  lot....
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Athreyan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Help me choose fertilizer..Help Reply with quote

 EI  &  PMDD  are  today's  most  widely  used  methods,  and  both  are  proven  &  very  good.  what  method  you  chose  depends  on  what  you're  looking  for  &  what  you're  comfortable  with.  Both  are  the  same  as  far  as  success  is  concerned.  be  it  a  beginner  or  seasoned  hobbyist.
 
 EI  is  for  people  looking  for  good  fast  growth  using  high-tech  methods.  high  lights,  high  CO2,  heavy  fertilization  etc.  This  method  is  also  labour  intensive.  ecause  growth  is  heavy  you  have  to  do  maintenance  very  often.  Dosing  has  to  be  done  frequently.  This  IMO  is  for  the  impatient  people  who  look  to  re  do  their  tanks  often.
 
 PMDD  or  low-tech  EI  on  the  other  hand  is  for  the  more  laid  back  (lazy)  people  like  me   Chuckle  .  Growth  is  slow.  dosing  is  less.  lights  are  low.  No  or  very  little  CO2.  Maintenance  is  low.  If  you  plan  to  keep  your  tank  for  a  long  period  of  time  then  this  is  the  way  to  go.  Also,  in  these  'low-tech'  methods,  things  go  wrong  slowly   Thumb Up  .  So  you  kinda  have  a  bit  of  time  to  correct  your  mistakes.
 
 What  I  have  seen  though,  is  that  when  the  initial  frenzy  and  euphoria  starts  mellowing  down  and  the  dust  settles,  most  people  tend  to  shift  towards  the  'low-tech'  methods.  i  guess  maturity  &  mellowness  are  directly  proportional!   Chuckle  
 
 Choose  anything.  Do  it  properly  &  wisely  and  you  should  have  a  long  &  happy  affair  with  your  fishes  and  tanks.   Thumb Up
 This  affair  is  as  dangerous  as  real  life  affairs,  so  don't  ignore  the  missus!   ROFL   ROFL   ROFL   -  That's  sound  advise  for  the  married  aquarist,  from  another.
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