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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Poor man's reef
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Poor man's reef
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aquascapes
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 2753
Location: Surat, Gujarat

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: Poor man's reef Reply with quote

 Guys  I  happened  to  come  across  a  site  check  it  out!
 http://www.mindspear.com/reef/index.htm
 Requesting  all  fellow  aquarists  to  contribute  to  the  topic  and  help  fellow  reefers  to  bring  the  operating  costs  of  a  reef  in  the  affordable  range.
 Please  contribute  your  ideas    Idea
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 check  out  the  below  link  also
 http://ozreef.org/content/category/2/71/29/
 come-on  guys  start  adding  something  to  this
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rajeev
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Aqua,  when  you  say  Reed  what  do  you  exactly  mean  because  as  you  know  in  India  Corals  are  banned  (that  is  why  chillers  are  expensive  nobody  buys  them  and  demand  being  low  it  is  expensive)  hence  the  closest  you  can  get  is  a  tank  with  LR's.
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aquascapes
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 2753
Location: Surat, Gujarat

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
rajeev  wrote:                
Aqua,  when  you  say  Reed  what  do  you  exactly  mean  because  as  you  know  in  India  Corals  are  banned  (that  is  why  chillers  are  expensive  nobody  buys  them  and  demand  being  low  it  is  expensive)  hence  the  closest  you  can  get  is  a  tank  with  LR's.                

 
 Thank  God  someone  atleast  acknowledged  the  thread  -  
 well  dear  Sir,
 A  reef  is  not  just  live  corals  -  it  is  a  whole  world  of  small  invertibrates  and  colonies  of  even  algae  (the  coralline  one)  can  be  a  treat  to  watch  -  purple,  red,  and  you  name  the  color  a  reef  will  have  it  -  yes  there  are  different  views  in  how  to  mantain  a  healthy  reef  -  economically!
 that  is  what  I  want  people  to  realise  that  a  reef  is  not  just  corals  even  live  rocks  can  be  a  treat  to  keep  and  best  of  all  -  it  helps  in  controlling  the  high  nitrites  and  nitrates  (more  on  this  later)
 first  things  first!
 Talking  about  live  rocks  -  any  rock  with  some  algae  formation  on  it  is  branded  as  live  rock  -  But,  for  me  a  live  rock  should  have  colonies  of  different  life  forms,  sponges,  algae,  polyps,  etc.  I'm  sure  most  of  you  register  the  term  live  rock  as  something  that  is  forcefully  broken  from  the  natural  reef  structure  and  traded  for  the  hobby  -  wrong  -  I  don't  support  such  trade!  Thumb Down  
 Imagine  the  typical  tropical  reef  with  warm  waters  and  where  the  apex  structure  of  the  reef  is  exposed  to  the  atmosphere  during  the  low  tides  and  top  of  all  that  it  has  to  even  bear  the  harsh  storms.  This  natural  process  is  responsible  most  of  the  time  for  the  ever-changing  geography  of  the  reef  and  also  for  the  old  corals  to  die  and  new  ones  to  start  colonising  and  in  the  event  part  of  the  reef  structure  breaks  loose  -  such  a  phenomenon  leaves  behind  a  lot  of  blocks  of  the  reef  structure  which  is  so  rich  in  calcium  carbonate.
 Due  to  the  harsh  water  movements(ocean  currents)  and  the  action  of  burrowing  invertibrates  it  becomes  porous  and  is  often  very  light  in  weight  -  this  type  of  a  porous  rock  or  block  of  the  reef  structure  becomes  a  heaven  for  coralline  algae,  small  burrowing  inverts,  soft  polyps  etc.  to  colonise  on!  -  such  rocks  being  light  in  weight  are  often  washed  off-shore  and  is  a  feast  for  the  birds  and  larger  inverts  like  crabs  -    eventually  it  dries  off  and  crumbles  into  the  so  called  coral  sand  and  if  it  is  a  large  piece  it  might  be  just  useful  to  someone  for  even  construction  purpose!  These  rocks  if  collected  at  the  right  time  and  right  place  can  be  the  most  desirable  ones  as  most  of  the  life  on  the  rock  is  still  'live'  and  can  be  restored  back  to  normal  in  the  controlled  environment  of  the  tank  
 'phew'  this  must  be  my  longest  answer  till  now  Chuckle  
 tell  me  if  you  are  clear  with  the  concept  of  a  live  rock?
 regards,
 aquascapes
 more  on  this  later  -  but  keep  your  posts  going
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gokulin
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Wow...........  aquaspaces
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aquascapes
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 2753
Location: Surat, Gujarat

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
rajeev  wrote:                
Aqua,  when  you  say  Reed  what  do  you  exactly  mean  because  as  you  know  in  India  Corals  are  banned  (that  is  why  chillers  are  expensive  nobody  buys  them  and  demand  being  low  it  is  expensive)  hence  the  closest  you  can  get  is  a  tank  with  LR's.                

 
 Dear  Sir,
 Chillers  are  not  just  useful  in  a  reef  -  It  is  also  of  immense  help  for  a  well  planted  aquaria  and  if  I  register  your  question  properly  it's  price  has  nothing  to  do  with  the    Banned    on  corals.
 You  can  start  culturing  coralline  algae  on  your  rocks  and  add  a  few  inverts  to  it  -  it  can  be  branded  as  a  reef  -  I  don't  have  a  single  coral  in  my  tank  which  is  illegal  and  can  still  call  my  aquaria  a  reef!
 please  clear  all  mis-conceptions  from  your  mind  and  if  in  doubt  feel  free  to  write  back.
 regards,
 aquascapes
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Cichlidmaniac
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Now  theres  an  idea,  a  reef  without  live  corals,hmmm..  Reeeaaalllly  interesting.  You've  really  got  me  thinking  here  buddy.  I  put  my  puny  little  brain  to  work    Knock  (its  about  time!!  Chuckle  )  and  tried  to  come  up  with  a  list  of  inverts  that  you  can  keep  in  a  reef  tank  without  live  corals.  Turns  out  we  actually  have  a  very  decent  sized  list  of  marine  organisms  Thumbs Up  .  So  here  you  have  some  sessile  inverts  and  sessile  organisms  that  I  could  think  of..  I  am  sure  there  could  be  more.
 1.  Anemones
 2.  Sea  mats  or  zooanthid  polyps(these  were  legal  last  time  I  checked  with  a  LFS)
 3.  Clams
 4.  Tube  worms
 5.  Macro  algae  (some  of  these  are  so  cool  looking  that  you'd  scoff  at  corals)!!
 6.  Sponges
 
 And  these  are  mobile  inverts  that  you  can  keep  as  well
 
 1.  starfish
 2.  Urchins
 2.  Crabs
 3.  Snails
 4.  Shrimps  and  lobsters
 
 And  finally  combined  with  fish,  this  provides  a  very  good  variety  of  marine  creatures(woohooo  Cheering  !!!).  But  believe  me  guys,  you  dont  even  have  to  go  in  for  these.  As  aquascapes  pointed  out  just  live  rock  covered  with  various  coloured  coralline  algae  itself  is  enough  to  provide  a  breathtaking  view.
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dr_mozart
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
aquascapes  wrote:                
 it  can  be  branded  as  a  reef  -  I  don't  have  a  single  coral  in  my  tank  which  is  illegal  and  can  still  call  my  aquaria  a  reef!
 please  clear  all  mis-conceptions  from  your  mind  and  if  in  doubt  feel  free  to  write  back.
 regards,
 aquascapes                

 
 could  you  please  explain  that...."  I  don't  have  a  single  coral  in  my  tank  which  is  illegal"  does  that  mean  you  have  some  other  home  grown  coral???  is  that  possible??    
 
 im  planning  to  setup  a  6x2x2    marine  aquarium  in  about  a  month  so  im  gathering  all  the  information  possible....is  crushed  coral  and  coral  sand  the  same  thing??
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Cichlidmaniac
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I  think  what  he  is  saying  is,  even  though  he  doesn't  have  corals  in  his  tank,  he  can  still  call  his  tank  as  a  reef  tank  because  he  has  live  rock  and  other  invertebrates.  So  he  doesn't  have  aquascapes  doesn't  have  corals  inhis  tank.
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dr_mozart
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:42 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Cichlidmaniac  wrote:                
I  think  what  he  is  saying  is,  even  though  he  doesn't  have  corals  in  his  tank,  he  can  still  call  his  tank  as  a  reef  tank  because  he  has  live  rock  and  other  invertebrates.  So  he  doesn't  have  aquascapes  doesn't  have  corals  inhis  tank.                

 
 are  live  rocks  also  disappearing  from  the  market????  because  a  i  visited  crawford  market  yesterday  n  the  guy  told  me  he  hasnt  recieved  any  new  live  rocks  since  6  months.....n  can  anyone  pls  give  me  an  estimate  n  can  you  also  list  the  equipment  with  approx  cost.....i  asked  the  dealer  to  set  it  up  n  he  gave  me  an  estimate  of  30g  which  i  think  is  almost  double  of  what  it  should  be.....i  think  i  posted  this  in  the  wrong  thread...
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:24 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Aquascapes,  I  have  to  disagree  with  you  a  bit  here...  
 
 Live  rock,  as  used  in  marine  aquaria,  is  primarily  a  means  to  regulate  waste  buildup  -  by  the  anaerobic  reduction  of  nitrates  to  nitrogen.  And  as  such,  the  most  valuable  part  of  live  rock,  the  part  that  makes  it  "live"  are  the  bacterial  colonies  within.  Everything  else  colonising  the  rock  is  a  bonus  as  such.
 
 As  to  reef,  what  you've  described  is  a  rocky  reef  while  the  reef  in  the  hobby  refers  to,  IMO,  a  coral  reef,  with  hard  or  soft  corals.  While  no  less  beautiful,  it  is,  IMO,  a  tad  incorrect  to  call  a  rocky  reef  a  true  reef.  Smile
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rajeev
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I  agree  and  disagree  with  Aqua.  A  tank  with  only  LR  is  called  a  "Wannabe  Reef"  but  not  a  reef.  Aqua  do  u  think  it  is  possible  for  you  to  send  across  a  coralline  culture  so  that  I  can  seed  my  tank  since  my  tank  does  have  a  few  pieces  of  LR  and  base  rock  and  now  most  of  the  rocks  are  covered  with  red  algae.  I  would  love  to  have  some  coralline  in  my  tank
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dr_mozart
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Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Navi Mumbai

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
rajeev  wrote:                
I  agree  and  disagree  with  Aqua.  A  tank  with  only  LR  is  called  a  "Wannabe  Reef"  but  not  a  reef.  Aqua  do  u  think  it  is  possible  for  you  to  send  across  a  coralline  culture  so  that  I  can  seed  my  tank  since  my  tank  does  have  a  few  pieces  of  LR  and  base  rock  and  now  most  of  the  rocks  are  covered  with  red  algae.  I  would  love  to  have  some  coralline  in  my  tank                

 
 incase  i  manage  to  get  hold  of  a  live  rock......how  do  i  seed(if  thats  the  correct  term)    a  zooanthid  polyp  in  it???  can  anything  similar  be  done  which  is  legal???  what  abt  sponge???  i  hope  thats  legal  atleast....
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rajeev
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Joined: Jan 24, 2005
Posts: 200
Location: Chembur, Mumbai

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 DM,
 
 I  do  not  think  you  can  seed  your  LR  with  Polyps  or  others  normally  when  you  buy  the  LR  all  these  and  many  more  organisms  come  long.  Most  of  these  die  that  is  why  an  uncured  LR  smells  like  rotten  eggs  (ammonia),  once  you  get  the  LR  you  need  to  cure  it  by  first  removing  dead,  dying  and  decaying  matter  and  then  put  them  in  a  tank  and  keep  a  lot  of  water  movement  and  also  keep  the  skimmer  running.  Once  the  LR  is  cured  it  can  go  into  your  display  tank  and  whatever  organism  that  did  not  die  will  flourish  and  so  will  the  coralline  alage.  now  you  need  to  supplement  the  tank  with  Calcium  etc  to  keep  the  coralline  growth,  growing.
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aquascapes
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Joined: Dec 19, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
retro_gk  wrote:                
Aquascapes,  I  have  to  disagree  with  you  a  bit  here...  
 
 Live  rock,  as  used  in  marine  aquaria,  is  primarily  a  means  to  regulate  waste  buildup  -  by  the  anaerobic  reduction  of  nitrates  to  nitrogen.  And  as  such,  the  most  valuable  part  of  live  rock,  the  part  that  makes  it  "live"  are  the  bacterial  colonies  within.  Everything  else  colonising  the  rock  is  a  bonus  as  such.
 
 As  to  reef,  what  you've  described  is  a  rocky  reef  while  the  reef  in  the  hobby  refers  to,  IMO,  a  coral  reef,  with  hard  or  soft  corals.  While  no  less  beautiful,  it  is,  IMO,  a  tad  incorrect  to  call  a  rocky  reef  a  true  reef.  Smile                

 Yes  retro  I  agree  with  you  but  a  reef  is  a  reef!  for  me  the  bonus  is  the  reduction  of  nitrates  as  today  we  have  an  arrey  of  gadgets  which  are  used  to  reduce  nitrites  and  nitrates  in  the  tank  and  having  live  rocks  for  reducing  the  nitrates  is  not  what  I  would  do  -  My  thread  here  is  on  having  a  reef  -  may  it  be  rocky  or    coral  it  should  be  economical  and  affordable  -  when  we  have  a  live  rock  which  acts  as  a  de-nitrator  and  has  some  polyps  on  it  will  do  some  good  to  the  asthetic  value  of  the  tank  and  your  pocket  as  well  'cause  you  are  saving  money  on  the  fancy  gadgets.
 aquascapes
 
 could  you  please  explain  that...."  I  don't  have  a  single  coral  in  my  tank  which  is  illegal"  does  that  mean  you  have  some  other  home  grown  coral???  is  that  possible??  
 im  planning  to  setup  a  6x2x2  marine  aquarium  in  about  a  month  so  im  gathering  all  the  information  possible....is  crushed  coral  and  coral  sand  the  same  thing??

 No  sir,  you  can't  grow  coral  unless  you  have  it  taken  from  the  reef!  -  Yes  you  can  multiply  them  but  the  parent  coral  comes  from  mother  Nature.
 No,  coral  sand  is  found  naturally  and  crushed  coral  is  the  pieces  of  dead  coral  crushed  by  force  to  either  fill  your  calcium  reactor  or  use  as  a  bed  -  natural  coral  sand  will  be  smooth  and  rounded  grain  whereas  crushed  coral  will  be  sharp  edged  and  coarse  (if  not  treated)
 
 incase  i  manage  to  get  hold  of  a  live  rock......how  do  i  seed(if  thats  the  correct  term)  a  zooanthid  polyp  in  it???  can  anything  similar  be  done  which  is  legal???  what  abt  sponge???  i  hope  thats  legal  atleast....
 sponges  normally  don't  last  long  on  the  rocks  as  most  of  the  live  rock  is  packed  in  the  wrong  manner  and  once  the  sponge  is  exposed  to  air  for  sometime  it  is  doomed!
 I'm  in  the  process  of  writing  a  long  answer  on  seeding  a  live  rock  so  hold  your  breath!
 
 put  them  in  a  tank  and  keep  a  lot  of  water  movement  and  also  keep  the  skimmer  running.  
 you  will  be  amazed  to  know  that  even  if  you  don't  have  any  fish  in  the  tank  and  even  if  you  don't  put  a  single  flake  or  pellet  in  the  tank  as  food  -  your  skimmer  will  keep  on  getting  filled  -  just  by  the  live  rock's  waste!
 and  the  water  movement  is  necessary  for  making  sure  that  the  nutrients  in  the  water  are  carried  to  the  live  matter  on  the  rocks  and  inside  the  rocks!


Last edited by aquascapes on Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:26 pm; edited 4 times in total
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