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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus?
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Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus?
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drug
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

                                                   
psimhan  wrote  (View  Post):                

 I  have  the  same  two  plants  and  the  one  on  the  right  is  tennelus.
 I  suspect  the  one  on  the  left  is  Lileaopsis  sp.
                 

 
 Lileopsis  is  okay  for  the  foreground?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

                                                   
unninga  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Lileopsis  is  okay  for  the  foreground?                

 Some  lilaeopsis  sp.  are  good  foreground  carpet  plants,  like  brasiliensis  and  mauritiana  but  havent  seen  them  personally  and  are  known  to  be  more  demanding.
 
 Even  I've  read  somewhere  about  E.tenellus  different  from  E.tenellus  'narrow',  unable  to  find  out  right  now....  here  is  a  pic  of  the  tenellus(probably  narrow)  with  emersed  leaved  in  my  tank,  they  were  very  stiff  and  tall(8inches),  I  doubted  that  the  LFS  traded  terrestrial  grass  to  me  for  tenellus.  
 
 
 They  took  a  hell  lot  of  time  to  melt  and  regrow  submerged  leaves,  picture  below..
 


Last edited by Hamza on Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

                                                   
unninga  wrote  (View  Post):                
Sorry  to  bump  this  so  soon
 
 Can  anyone  confirm  that  the  two  are  same?  If  not  which  is  the  tenellus?  I  planted  only  about  a  week  back,  so  if  one  of  the  two  is  not  tenellus  I  can  still  pull  it  out  without  bringing  up  a  mushroom  cloud  of  laterite.                

 Unni,  There  are  two  forms  of  Echinodorus  tenellus.   The  more  common  form  known  as  E.  tenellus  "micro"  has  very  narrow  leaves  about  5  mm.  This  is  the  one  in  Hamza's   2nd  picture  above.  It  gets  a  beautiful  maroon  color  under  strong  light.  This  is  what  you  see  in  lot  of  Amano  scapes.  This  plant  has  been  recently  reclassified  as  Helianthium  tenellum.  
 
 The  second  variety  has  slightly  broader  leaves  which  are  bright  green.  This  form  is  rarer  in  the  hobby  here  in  USA.  Florida  Aquatic  Nursery  cultivates  this  variety  of  E.  tenellus  also  known  as  E.  pravulus.  Both  these  varieties  are  native  to  North  America  as  well  as  South  America.
 
 Bhushan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 Thanks.  Bhushan,  Hamza  and  Pradeep
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 Nice  tank  Hamza,
 
 Your  growth  of  Hygrophila  difformis  conveys  the  time  story.  Your  tenellus  is  not  emersed  growth  in  your  first  picture  .  It  is  immersed.  Probably  it  took  time  to  acclimatize  to  your  water  parameters  for  your  second  picture.
 
 Pradeep  and  Bhushan,
 I  have  not  seen  any  Lileopsis  or  E.pravulus  available  in  B'lore  LFS.  Any  photo's  of  your  plants  to  educate  me  will  help.
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

                                                   
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                
Nice  tank  Hamza,
 
 Pradeep  and  Bhushan,
 I  have  not  seen  any  Lileopsis  or  E.pravulus  available  in  B'lore  LFS.  Any  photo's  of  your  plants  to  educate  me  will  help.
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.                

 
 Nayak,  I  have  no  idea  about  plant  availability  in  B'lore.  I  was  just  trying  to  confirm  Unni's  doubt  about  2  forms  of  E.tenellus.  I  have  the  E.tenellus  var'Micro"/  "Amano"  growing  both  emmersed  and  in  my  tanks.  The  leaf  blade  is  never  more  than  5  mm.  The  height  of  the  plant  underwater  can  be  variable  depending  on  light.  But  the  emmersed  form  of  this  plant  is  very  delicate  and  the  plant  height  is  max-5  cm.  I  will  post  pics  of  this  plant  in  the  evening.
 The  E.  tenellus  "broad  leaf"  or  E.  pravulus  is  more  robust  and  taller  plant  with  typical  plant  structure  of  Echinodorus  genus.  I  have  had  this  plant  in  the  past  and  even  when  acclimatized  underwater  it  will  maintain  the  leaf  shape.  The  leaves  will  just  be  more  delicate  underwater.  I  was  never  a  fan  of  this  variety  and  don't  have  it  with  me  any  more.
 Here  is  the  pic  of  that  plant  from  Florida  Aquatic  Nursery.
 http://www.floridaaquatic.com/aquarium_plant_echinodorus_tenellus.html
 
 Thanks
 Bhushan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 Thanks  Bhushan,
 
 Unni  has  got  a  plant  which  he  is  sure  is  E.tenellus(from  Mayur)-  No  doubts  regarding  that,  as  I  know  the  knowledgeable  person  Mayur  is.
 
 Unni  has  got  a  second  batch  of  plant  from  his  local  LFS  who  has  agreed,  He  has  given  plant  E.Tenellus  grown  emersed  under  spray  bar.
 
 Hamza  has  a  plant  which  he  is  not  sure  of.  I  think  both  the  plants  I  saw  in  his  photo's  are  submerged  variety  of  E.tenellus.
 
 Bhushan  and  Pradeep,
 
 you  have  got  knowledge  about  new  varieties.  Bhushan  has  posted  his  pictures.  Pradeep  will  soon  post  his  pictures.  
 I  am  not  convinced.  I  still  think  Unni  has  only  E.tenellus  immersed  as  well  as  emersed.
 
 No  offence,  but  prove  otherwise  Smile  
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 Since  there  is  a  keen  debate  I  think  I  will  keep  snapping  pictures  of  the  two  specimens  side  by  side  and  document  how  they  progress.
 
 The  narrow  leafed  variety  didn't  melt  {It  was  kept  underwater  even  before  planting}
 Its  the  broad  leafed  one  that  had  a  good  number  of  leaves  melt  off.
 
 I  think  I  will  keep  both  {or  the  same  one  with  split  personality   Chuckle  }  for  now  and  see  how  they  come  along
 
 Unni
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:23 am Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 @Nayak  Sir
 I  am  very  sure  that  mine  is  tenellus.  Thanks  to  Bhushan  Sir  for  confirming  'narrow'.  Earlier  I  was  confused,  when  I  saw  those  stiff  leaves,  that  took  long  to  grow.  Now  you  can  also  see  tips  turning  red,  a  sign  of  healthy  growth.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

                                                   
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                
Thanks  Bhushan,
 
 
 No  offence,  but  prove  otherwise  Smile  
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.                

 
 Nayak  ,  I  was  not  saying  that  the  plants  which  Unni  has  are  two  different  varieties  of  E.tenellus  .  They  may  very  well  be  the  same  variety.I  am  just  confirming  his  doubt  of  existence  of  two  variety  of  E.tenllus.  There  are  actually  a  few  more  which  have  still  not  been  identified.  From  the  pictures  that  he  has  posted  they  both  look  like  E.tenellus  "broad  leaf"  .  BTW  Echinodorus  pravulus  is  a  synonym  for  E.tenellus  "broad  leaf".   The  one  which  Hamza  has  is  definitely  E.tenellus  "micro"  
 I  have  already  posted  a  link  from  FAN  for  the  emersed  for  of  E.tenellus  "broad  leaf"
 
 Here  is  a  picture  of  E.tenellus  "micro"  growing  emersed  in  my  emersed  crptocoryne  set-up.  It  is  the  small  grass  like  plant  on  the  left  side.
   
 
 Here  is  a  picture  of  E.tenellus"micro"  immersed  grown.  The  plant  in  emersed  set  up  is  a  runner  from  this.  It  never  changed  the  leaf  shape.  The  only  difference  was  the  leaf  got  shorter  and  slightly  thicker  than  the  one  underwater.
 
 
 No  offence  meant.
 
 Thanks  
 Bhushan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 If  you  want  a  definitive  ID,  get  the  plant  to  flower  and  examine  the  inflorescence.  We  can  argue  about  leaf  shape  till  the  cows  come  home  and  transform  into  tender,  juicy  steaks.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 No  offence  taken,Bhushan.  Very Happy  
 
 I  am  learning  something  new.  Thanks.
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 Nayak,  your  question  was  valid  as  this  is  a  highly  debated  topic.  There  is  still  no  scientific  description  to  this  variety.  As  Rahul  pointed  out  getting  a  inflorescence  is  a  sure  form  of  ID.  As  per  one  paper  which  was  published  in  2007,  quiet  a  few  plants  from  genus  Echinodorus  are  now  classified  into  a  new  genus  called  Helianthium.  Here  is  a  link  to  the  abstract  of  that  paper.
 http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119405254/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
 
 We  all  learn  something  new  in  this  hobby  everyday.  Thumb Up  
 
 Thanks
 Bhushan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 Hi
 as  promised  here  is  an  update  of  the  same  two  plants  at  one  month
 
 
 
 I  am  beginning  to  agree  with  the  view  that  these  are  two  distinct  species.  They  have  been  in  the  same  conditions  for  a  month  and  still  look  different.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Two varieties of Echinodorus Tenellus? Reply with quote

 Here  is  a  Picture  of  the  two  plants  after  three  months.  The  broad  leaf  variety  seems  to  be  growing  more  robustly.  If  you  look  closely  you  can  make  out  that  the  narrow  leafed  plant  that  was  seen  in  the  initial  two  pictures  have  been  covered  up  by  the  broad  leafed  one,  The  Narrow  leafed  ones  that  are  seen  now  are  plantlets  that  came  up  from  runners  on  the  original  plant.
 
 Looks  distinctly  different  to  me  now.  It  doesn't  look  like  a  an  Emersed  Vs  Submerged  difference.

 
 
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