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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank
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Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank
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iprakash
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Hello  all,  Got  to  this  site  by  searching  for  fish  information  .  Instantly  liked  it  as  it  is  by  Indian  Hobbyists.  I  am  Prakash  from  Pune  and  this  happens  to  be  my  first  post  on  this  site.  I  used  a  fish  bowl  earlier  for  around  6  months  to  get  acquainted  with  fish  keeping.  I  recently  (3  weeks)  setup  a  30  gallon  tank.  Bought  a  big  1200lph  submersible  filter  for  the  tank.  The  motor  capacity  is  rated  35  Watts  on  the  sticker.
 
 Today  morning  I  noticed  the  water  temperature  to  be  around  30  deg  centigrade!  This  was  higher  than  the  upper  green  mark  of  27-28  degrees  shows  by  my  water  thermometer.  I  checked  the  water  temperature  in  a  covered  bucket  in  my  bathroom.  It  registered  26  degrees.
 
 I  used  an  ice  pack  in  an  attempt  to  cool  off  the  water.  Since  the  water  was  too  much  it  did  not  help.  I  uncovered  the  aquarium  which  may  be  helpful  I  think.
 
 I  have  26  fishes  in  my  tank  Smile  and  all  seem  to  be  happy  and  healthy.  The  fishes  are:
 Bala  Shark  x  4
 Silver  Dollar  x  2
 Rosy  Barbs  x  2
 Red  Eye  Tetra  x  4
 Albino  Buenes  Aires  Tetra  x  2
 Zebra  Danios  x  6
 Blue  Morph  x  6
 
 My  questions  are:
 [1]  Did  the  temperature  rise  because  of  the  filter  running  all  time  (Though  the  motor  does  not  seem  to  be  even  mildly  hot  on  touch)?  If  so,  is  it  recommended  to  only  seldom  run  the  filter  -  Like  a  couple  of  hrs  a  day?  If  so,  will  NOT  running  the  filter  all  the  time  cause  the  beneficial  bacteria  to  die?
 [2]  Is  30  degrees  or  higher  OK  for  my  aquarium?
 [3]  Can  one  use  ice  packs  to  cool  water  if  the  temperature  seems  to  be  high?  if  not,  what  are  the  recommended  ways  to  lower  water  temperature  in  an  aquarium?
 
 Thank  you  
 
 Rgds,  Prakash
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rohansd
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Hi  Prakash
 Welcome  to  IAH.  :)
 
 Firstly  you  have  got  a  wrong  mix  of  fish.  But  thats  mostly  what  first  timers  do.  I  am  glad  you  upgraded  from  bowl  to  a  30g  tank.
 
 About  your  question  about  temperature.
 1)  I  too  live  in  Pune  and  I  use  heater  to  keep  the  temperature  at  28  deg.
 It  is  unlikely  that  the  temperature  shot  up  due  to  the  filter.  what  is  the  make  of  the  filter  ?
 What  kind  of  lights  do  you  have  on  your  tank  and  what  kind  of  hood.
 If  you  have  CFLs  and  a  closed  hood  then  the  water  temperature  tends  to  shoot  up.
 The  filter  should  be  kept  ON  24X7  no  matter  what.
 
 2)   30  Deg  is  OK  but  try  to  find  out  the  cause  for  so  high  temperature  at  this  point  of  time  so  that  you  dont  have  problems  in  summer.
 An  open  top  aquarium  helps  to  cool  off  on  its  own  due  to  evaporation.
 
 3)  Using  ice  pack  to  cool  water  is  tricky.There  should  not  be  a  drastic  fluctuation  in  the  water  temperature.  The  fluctuations  are  more  in  a  smaller  tank  so  be  careful  with  it.
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Most  likely  your  thermometer  is  faulty.
 The  aquarium  temp  is  normally  1-2  dif  lower  than  that  of  room  temp.unless  you  have  very  high  lights  that  are  heating  up  your  aquarium.
 I  dont;  think  room  temp  in  pune  would  be  31-32  right  now.
 As  you  do  not  have  plants,  these  fishes  will  do  well  in  your  aquarium  without  going  for  any  cooling  optins.
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Most  fishes  can  tolerate  30.   Your  tank  will  be  in  deep  trouble  if  u  turn  off  your  filter.   Just  browse  the  forums.   You  will  get  more  than  what  you  want.
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iprakash
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Thanks  Rohan/Sandeep/Madhu  for  the  quick  response.  I  will  check  the  thermometer  with  another  reference  one.  For  now,  the  water  did  feel  very  slightly  warm  to  touch.  I  have  just  covered  my  aquarium  with  a  thermocol  sheet  to  protect  from  dust  because  the  hood  is  not  ready  yet.  I  have  to  get  a  custom  made  plywood  hood  because  of  the  custom  tank  size  (34  inches).  That  will  take  its  own  sweet  time  because  carpenters  here  in  Pune  are  not  very  keen  on  doing  'chhota'  kaam  :)
 
 So  no  hood,  no  lighting  for  now.  I  had  planned  for  a  36  Watt  CFL  when  the  hood  is  ready.  Since  you  say  that  this  will  result  in  increased  temp,  what  kind  of  light  source  should  I  eventually  use?  Also  is  36  Watt  enough  for  a  34x18x12  tank?
 
 The  make  of  the  filter  I  have  is  SUN  SUN  Smile  (Double  Sun).  Bought  it  from  Green  Harvest,  Clover  Towers,  M.G.  Road,  Pune.  Cost  me  750  INR.  I  replaced  an  earlier  SUN  SUN  one  which  was  noisy.  This  one  is  very  silent.  I  am  not  sure  they  have  named  it  SUN  SUN  because  it  heats  Smile  Joking.
 
 I  am  curious  about  this  open  hood  that  you  mentioned.  If  the  hood  is  open  how  does  one  fix  lighting,  won't  the  light  escape  in  to  the  entire  room  and  act  as  a  lamp  Smile  Since  I  am  going  for  a  custom  made  hood,  can  you  suggest  any  designs  photos  of  the  same?  Also  how  high  should  be  the  light  from  the  surface  of  water?
 
 I  also  gather  from  your  post  that  plants  will  get  the  water  temperature  up.  Is  this  because  of  the  plants  themselves  or  the  strong  lighting  needs  they  have?
 
 Can  you  also  help  me  with  -  Which  fish  in  my  aquarium  should  simply  NOT  BE  KEPT  with  the  other  lot  in  my  tank.  I  suspect  it  is  the  blue  morph  but  all  seem  to  be  happy  with  each  other.  The  only  problem  I  have  observed  is  that  the  rosies  tend  to  gobble  up  all  the  food  I  put.  I  however  like  them  because  of  their  character  -  darting  around  the  tank  and  behind  each  other  with  all  the  energy.
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iprakash
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Checked  my  aquarium  thermometer  with  standard  digital  thermometer.  Both  register  same  temperature  (+/-  0.5  degrees),  so  faulty  thermometer  is  ruled  out.
 
 When  I  was  home  yesterday  I  noticed  that  the  water  temp  was  around  28  degrees.  I  turned  the  filter  on.  It  has  now  been  running  for  12  hrs.  I  do  not  see  water  temp  rise.  Water  temp  is  still  between  27-28  degrees.  The  only  change  I  did  was  remove  the  thermocol  cover  so  the  tank  is  exposed.
 
 Will  check  again  and  post  findings.
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sandeepraghuvanshi
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Do  not  cover  the  aquairum  with  anything  that  prevents  free  flow  of  air.  This  will  raise  temp.
 What  ever  type  of  cover  you  are  desging  just  make  sure  that  it  has  ventillation  at  top.
 My  top  is  like  this
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iprakash
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Thanks  Sandeep  for  the  picture.  In  your  aquarium  hood  can  the  front  lid  be  lifted  to  feed  fish?  Also  why  has  you  made  the  hood  so  high?  BTW  is  it  custom  made?  My  tank  is  17  inches  high.  I  plan  to  make  a  6  inch  high  hood  with  2  inches  of  the  hood  coming  over  glass.  Water  will  be  filled  upto  15-16  niches.  Is  this  good?
 
 With  the  ventilation  given  in  hood  I  have  2  queries:
 
 [1]  Won't  dust  go  into  the  water  and  spoil  it?
 [2]  Won't  light  escape  into  the  room  thru  the  slots?  This  would  not  look  good  at  night  in  a  dim  lit  room.
 
 Do  you  use  a  reflector  with  your  PLL/CFL?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 The  light  source  can  be  anything,  tubelights,  PLLs  or  CFLs  but  you  should  ensure  that  the  heat  producing  source(Ballasts  for  the  tubes  and  PLLs  )  is  out  of  the  tank  canopy.
 The  CFLs  produce  heat  as  the  ballasts  are  integrated  with  the  bulb.
 
 There  are  various  designs  to  eliminate  or  reduce  the  heat.  Sandeeps  hood   is  one  of  them.
 There  are  people  who  use  CPU  fans  on  the  either  sides  of  the  canopy  and  they  act  like  exhaust  fans.  There  are  some  who  orient  the  CPU  fans  such  that  they  blow  air  over  the  water  surface  and  hence  cooling  it.
 
 Googling  for  DIY  Aquarium  hood  will  throw  up  lot  of  results.
 
 You  can  also  rest  the  canopy  on  the  side  walls  in  such  a  way  it  stays  elevated  by  6  inches  or  more.
 
 This  is  what  I  did  to  my  tank.
 Those  are  commercial  PLL  fittings  which  I  rested  on  Aluminum  rails  which  were  laid  across  the  front  and  back  wall.
 
 
 
 This  is  what  I  meant  when  I  said  open  top  tank  in  my  previous  post.  Water  cools  on  its  own  due  to  evaporation.  Even  with  this  arrangement  water  reaches  abt  30-31  C  in  peak  summer.
 
 
 About  your  questions
 1)  Dont  bother  much  about  dust:)  But  ensure  that  enthusiastic  kids  or  guests  dont  poke  in  something.  Smile
 2)  In  my  case  the  light  does  escape  but  It  doesnt  bother  me.
   But  if  you  get  a  rectangular  box  type  canopy  made  and  rest  it  at  an  elavated  level.  The   light  spilling  wont  be  much.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Yes  the  front  lid  can  be  lifted  to  feed  the  fish.  This  is  my  own  design  and  custom  built.
 It  is  high  becasuse  1"  comes  down  the  top  of  tank  and  hides  the  water  line.  At  the  back  it  is  open.  The  lights  are  also  inside  the  hood.
 Dust  going  inside  the  aquaium  is  not  a  problem,  it  gets  cleard  by  the  filter  and  weekly  water  changes.
 Light  does  ecsape  through  the  slits,  but  it  is  s  trade  off  between  keeping  the  tank  cool,  which  is  more  important  for  me.  Smile  
 
 The  design  details  are  as  follow
 http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2606&highlight=hood%2A
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Rohan/Sandeep,  Thanks  guys  again  for  explaining  things  so  beautifully  and  with  pictures.  I'll  take  all  these  inputs  and  see  what  design  I  come  up  with  that  facilitates  evaporation  and  cooling.  Thanks  for  sharing  your  design  Sandeep.
 
 While  googling,  over  all  the  articles,  the  below  ones  fascinated  me.  Posting  here  for  others  reference:
 http://www.aquariacentral.com/diy/canopy.shtml
 http://www.fishlore.com/aquariummagazine/sept07/diyaquariumlightcanopy.htm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 I  have  a  120mm  fan  blowing  air  into  the  hood  for  a  36"x18"x24"  tank.  Have  2x36watt  PLLs.  Temp  is  at  ~24c  with  room  temperature  being  28-29c.  Another  method  is  to  make  the  water  splash  a  bit  (not  good  if  you  have  co2)  it  will  take  the  temperature  further  down.  Only  drawback  is  that  water  evaporates  by  around  3/4"  each  day  for  a  surface  area  of  36"x18".
 
 Will  try  to  post  a  picture  over  the  weekend.
 
 If  you  dont  keep  any  jumpers,  its  better  to  have  a  open  tank  like  roshan  has.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Thanks  Deepak.  A  picture  with  the  fan  would  really  help.  Will  wait  till  weekend.  A  long  20  inch  spray  bar  came  along  with  my  pump.  Have  not  used  it  yet.  Let  me  experiment  with  it  to  see  how  much  can  it  lower  the  temp.  Will  post  my  experiment  results  when  done.
 
 I  will  probably  not  go  for  a  completely  open  tank  as  Roshan  because  I  plan  to  hide  all  electricals  -  Air  pump,  switches,  etc  inside  the  hood.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 Prakash,
 
 Here  is  the  fan  that  I  use  -
 http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?/cases_cooling/yate_loon_d12sl-12_120mm_case_fan_review/1
 
 will  post  the  hood  snaps  over  the  weekend  as  I  said.  Best  place  to  look  for  them  are  computer  shops  or  shops  where  you  get  industrial  electronic  goods.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Help required on water temperature in fresh-water tank Reply with quote

 OK  all,  experiments  done.
 
 [1]  With  no  cover  water  tank  temp  does  not  rise  with  the  submersible  pump  running.
 [2]  With  full  covered  tank  water  temp  rises  from  27  to  28  in  12  hrs
 [3]  With  partial  covering  (left   4  inch  slot  open)  also  the  temp  rose  from  27  to  28  degrees  in  12  hrs
 
 So  rightly,  the  temp  increases  because  the  tank  is  covered.  I  think  I'll  go  ahead  with  the  fan  solution  as  proposed.
 
 Thanks  everybody.
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