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On dealing with Nitrate in the water.
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Chinoy
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:24 am Post subject: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 Im  making  this  post  due  to  the  surprising  amount  of  people  who  are  keen  on  the  idea  off  cutting  down  on  water  change.
 Thanks  for  the  Pms  and  support
 
 First  let  me  assure  you  that  it  is  very  much  doable.  We  can  have   huge  and  drastic  reduction  in  the  amount  of  water  that  can  be  saved.
 Just  do  a  Google  and  you  will  find  tons  of  locations  across  the  world  with  huge  tanks  and  or  huge  number  of  small  tanks  who  have  pulled  it  off.
 
 Im  not  looking  to  make  it  100%  self  sufficient  just   drastic  drop  as  are  most  of  your.  If  I  can  cut  it  down  from  25  Buckets   a  week  to  5  Id  be  happy.  If  I  can  get  it  down  to  1  bucket  perfect.
 
 
 The  stumbling  block  to  my  plans  is  dealing  with  the  Nitrates  in  the  water.
 Its  only  a  problem  because  I  haven't  been  able  to  find  the  chemical  or  process  which  when  added  to  the  water  will  react  with  Nitrate  and  convert  it  into  Nitrogen  which  escapes  into  the  air  in  India.
 
 You  can  buy  this  stuff  online  but  importing  it  will  cost  a  bit.
 So  if  you  have   cheap  local  source  or  can  figure  out  a  way  for  us  to  deal  with  the  Nitrate  in  the  water  other  than  by  water  change   it  would  help  the  cause.
 
 Ive  contacted  quite  a  few  people  who  are  maintaining  their  tanks  without  water  change  and  this  is  the  product  they  all  seem  to  rave  about.  
 
 http://www.memory-doctor.com/Aqua/rightnowfw.html
 
 Dont  worry  about  the  other  issues.  Those  have  very  simple  and  easy  to  implement  solutions.  This  is  our  main  challenge.
 Ill  continue  to  dig  for  info  and  post  up  if  any  is  found.  If  you  find  anything  or  can  help  with  info  pls  post  up.
 
 I  have  a  few  friends  who  work  in  this  field  will  ask  them  also  for  ideas.
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rahulk
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 bacteria  which  removes  nitrate  aerobically  ........   probably  snake  oil   Very Happy  
 
 You  can  try  de-nitrator,  but  you  need  to  tinker  with  it  a  lot  to  get  it  right.
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 If  reduction  of  nitrates  is  possible  by  aerobic  bacteria,  all  tanks  will  naturally  be  having  them  without  adding  any  product.   Unless  and  until  there  is  proof  that  nitrates  can  be  reduced  to  nitrogen  by  Aerobic  Bacteria,  any  such  claim  will  be  discarded.   There  is  a  proven  theory  that  Anaerobic  bacteria  can  eliminate  nitrates  and  hence  De-Nitrator  systems.
 
 By  the  way  if  the  product  costs  $18  or  Rs.864  for  a  60  gallon  tank,  in  most  cities  in  India  you  can  buy  a  full  tanker  lorry  of  water  for  less  than  that  cost.   And  when  it  comes  to  making  waterchanges  for  that  tank,  say  about  25%  WC  for  the  same  tank,  all  you  would  need  is  3  buckets  or  just  55  litres  of  water  (considering  a  bucket  full  is  about  20  litrs)  for  a  week  which  comes  to  just  156  buckets  a  year.
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garothmaan
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 I  use  a  simple  pipe  to  flush  out  all  the  water  from  the  tank,  and  again  fill-up  with  the  same  pipe...
 
 If  it  rains,  it  rains  everywhere,  not  just  on  lakes  or  rivers  etc.....  it  rains  on  roads,  roofs,  junk  yards  etc  etc...  so  "ALSO"  tell  the  heavenly  ruler  not  to  waste  water.  
 
 its  just  a  thought...NO  OFFENSE  PLEASE..  Smile
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oscarmadness
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 @Chinoy..
 Apart  from  reducing  Nitrates  and  Nitrites,  there  are  other  advantages  in  doing  water  changes.  So  your  idea  of  introducing  a  chemical  to  the  tank  for  reducing  Nitrates  and  cutting  down  on  water  changes  is  going  to  take  you  no  where...
 
 1.  If  there  is  a  chemical  found  effectively  neutralizing  Nitrates,  then  the  chemical  reaction  will  also  have  a  byproduct..  Who  has  researched  or  will  gurantee  how  safe  is  the  by  product  for  your  live  stock  over  a  period  of  time..?
 
 2.  Usage  of  these  chemicals  might  delay  your  nitrogen  cycle,  the  nitrosomnas  and  nitrobacter  not  only  breaks  down  NH3  ,  NO2,  it  also  compliments  fish's  immune  system  and  well  being  in  the  tank..
 
 3.  Chemicals  should  be  avoided  by  any  cost..  Rid  All  AntiChlorine.  Since  the  bottle  says  there  is  no  harm  in  overdosing  -  people  to  be  on  the  safe  side  lots  of  them  dose  it  heavily.  This  is  what  happens,  if  you  dose  more  than  your  PPM  concentration  of  Chlorine,  then  the  additional  solution  would  create  a  very  fine  sedimentations  in  your  tank..  on  your  heater  and  other  accessories  on  the  long  run.  Which  can  only  be  removed  by  doing  water  changes..  Obviosuly  you  know  there  are  other  advantages  in  doing  changes  with  fresh  water  often...
 
 
 I  have  a  sincere  request...  I  can  really  understand  your  strong  science  and  engineering  acumen..  you  inquisitveness  of  knowing  every  detail..In  bengali  we  have  two  statements  "Shune  Shekha"  (Learn  by  listening),  "Theke  Shekha"  (Learn  by  facing/experiencing/suffering)..  No  doubts  the  second  one  is  the  best,  but  since  these  are  your  initial  days  in  the  hobby,  it  is  still  preferred  that  for  the  initial  period  you  just  simply  listen  to  what  the  experts  say  here..  once  you  do  that,  over  a  period  of  time  all  your  questions  would  get  answered  automatically...
 On  taking  the  second  route  your  initial  experiences  may  be  sorrowful  and  i  can  gurantee  more  casualties  in  your  tank...  For  kids,  they  by  nature  follow  the  first  route..
 
 Sorry  for  the  long  post..  but  have  been  following  some  of  your  earlier  posts..  wanted  to  put  forward  my  suggestion..  you  are  the  owner  -  you  have  the  final  call..
 
 Regards
 Subhankar
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rohansd
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

                                                   
garothmaan  wrote  (View  Post):                

 If  it  rains,  it  rains  everywhere,  not  just  on  lakes  or  rivers  etc.....  it  rains  on  roads,  roofs,  junk  yards  etc  etc...  so  "ALSO"  tell  the  heavenly  ruler  not  to  waste  water.  
                 

 
 That  was  a  bad  analogy.
 He  has  put  down  a  serious  thought.  If  you  wish  to  counter  him,  do  it  sensibly.  If  you  think  he  is  wrong,  you  can  convey  it  to  him  without  ridiculing  him.
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garothmaan
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 @Rohan
 
 With  all  due  respect,  I  "am"  not  ridiculing  him  please.   Chuckle  his  effort  on  bringing  down  the  water  changes  it  self  is  ridiculous....
 
 I  have  understood  on  IAH  "more  water  changes..more  good  health  for  fish"
 
 so  what  was  not  sensible  in  that  post...  PLEASE  EXPLAIN!
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 Thanks  Rahul  I  will  try  it.
 As  a  guy  whom  makes  products  most  people  call  snake  oil  ie  over  50%  reduction  in  all  emissions  and  30%  increase  in  mileage  and  power.
 I  keep  an  open  mind.  As  long  as  there  are  an  endless  line  of  people  reporting  that  it  works  Im  happy.  To  sell  or  buy  such  products.
 
 my  take  is  Ill  try  it  once
 Also  the  US  Govt.  does  not  issue  patents  on  snake  oil.
 
 
 The  more  I  read  about  this  the  more  I  think  we  could  achieve  similar  results  with  just  good  quality  carbon.
 And  using  the  same  setup  ie  water  turn  over  and  return  line  above  water  line  etc  etc.
 
 I  will  also  source  one  batch  of  this  to  get  their  bacteria  into  my  tank  and  media  and  start  testing.
 
 You  may  want  to  read  some  of  the  links  where  their  products  have  been  tested  look  for  a  forum  where   guy  called  snake  is  posting  he  is  the  guy  who  has  filled  the  patent.
 
 Cost  of  water  ?  When  your  in  an  Appt.  complex  on  the  4th  floor  ?
 People  who  believe  in  conservation  do  they  drive  electric  motors  because  its  cheap  ?
 No  they  do  it  because  they  have  some  ideals  and  beliefs.  Everything  in  life  is  not  about  whats  the  cheapest  route.
 This  is  how  we  get  side  tracked  into  discussing  stuff  which  has  nothing  to  do  with  the  topic.  And  everybody  jumps  in  chasing  each  others  tails.  making  a  lot  of  noise  with  no  progress.  
 
 We  will  get  to  the  trace  elements  a  little  latter  in  the  plan  its  not  a  big  deal.
 Solving  this  problem  is  the  biggest  deal.
 
 Can  we  keep  this  one  post  clean  and  to  the  point  please.  This  is  my  last  attempt  at  having  a  serious  discussion  here.
 
 An  interesting  read.
 
 http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-nitrogen-cycle-archive/23359-right-now-bacteria-hiatt-system-mini-review.html
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Whitesnake
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 Dear  Rohan,
 
 I  am  not  sure  how  serious  the  thought  could  be  or  would  be.
 
 But  one  thing  I  am  sure  of  if  I  want  to  keep  my  fish  happy  I  have  to  do  water  change  once  a  week  if  my  fish  are  Discu  then  every  day.
 
 Now  if  I  want  to  escape  this  then  I  do  not  think  I  should  be  keeping  fish  in  the  first  place.
 
 The  post  from  what  I  understood  is  saying  how  I  can  escape  water  change.
 
 Regards,
 
 Clive
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garothmaan
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

                                                   
Whitesnake  wrote  (View  Post):                
Dear  Rohan,
 
 The  post  from  what  I  understood  is  saying  how  I  can  escape  water  change.
 
                 

 
 Ofcourse  Yes  Dear  Clive......  you  are  right  thats  what  he  is  saying  .......Ron  you  are  over  doing  it  :)
 
 its  like  that  old  bava  saying  chaar  anay  ki  murgi  aur  baaranay  kaa  masala.


Last edited by garothmaan on Wed May 20, 2009 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 Uhhhh,
 
 Chinoy,  Not  meaning  to  ridicule  or  anything.  But  your  belief  in  patenting  capability  of  USA  and  the  USA  government  is  overrated.
 
 Here  is  a  site,  since  you  like  to  Google  everything  before  you  post.  I  have  linked  only  one  site,  but  there  are  many.
 http://www.patentlysilly.com/
 
 Madan  clearly  said  something  about  re-inventing  the  wheel.  But  I  have  to  give  it  to  you,  you  are  tenacious.
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 My  issue  with  water  changes  is  just  the  wasted  water.  My  fish  are  and  will  remain  my  first  priority,  but  having  a  discus  tank,  I  do  cringe  when  a  lot  of  water  goes  to  waste.  I  used  some  simple  things  like  reducing  bioload  drastically  and  then  do  water  changes  alternate  days  in  my  tank.  
 
 I  feel  until  extensive  research  is  done,  using  a  chemical  in  your  tank  is  just  not  done...
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garothmaan
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 Very Happy  you  should  go  for  salt  water  fish  then....salt  water,  its  in  abundance  on  earth...70%
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 Dear  All,
 Dear  All,
 
 I  would  like  to  mention  some  thing  here  If  I  am  wrong  the  I  am  wrong  .
 
 I  love  keeping  fish  and  I  have  been  doing  so  since  I  was  a  small  boy  who  went  to  school.
 
 Well  I  strongly  believe  that  if  I  want  to  keep  my  fish  friends  happy  and  want  them  to  grow  to  the  best  size  possible  then  the  only  way  it  can  be  done  is  by  regular  water  change.
 
 Now  I  cannot  compare  a  automobile  to  my  fish  tank  I  cannot  and  I  am  not  sure  if  any  one  here  can?
 
 Well  now  finding  a  way  out  to  escape  water  change  because  of  what  ever  reasons  there  is  then  in  the  first  place  I  should  not  be  keeping  fish  at  all.
 
 Reason  being  I  am  sure  any  one  who  gets  into  this  wonderful  hobby  would  first  know  that  water  change  is  very  important  for  keeping  fish  healthy.  
 
 Now  for  some  one  to  come  up  with  an  idea  to  not  do  water  change  or  reduce  the  water  change  due  to  less  water  and  so  on  and  then  compare  some  other  country  with  the  current  country  you  live  in  is  not  making  any  sense.
 
 Well  the  basic  is  healthy  fish  regular  water  change  
 
 So  I  have  no  idea  where  this  post  will  lead  or  who  would  blame  whom  for  what  ever  reason  but  yes  I  do  know  that  some  one,  who  joins  this  site  new  and  had  no  idea  about  keeping  fish,  should  first  always  do  their  home  work  well  and  then  only  get  into  this  hobby.
 
 
 Moderator  you  can  deleat  this  reply  if  you  think  this  does  not  make  sense.
 Regards,
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ramki600014
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Joined: Apr 26, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: On dealing with Nitrate in the water. Reply with quote

 As  was  pointed  out  earlier,  water  changes  help  in  more  than  removing  nitrogenous  waste  -  they  also  reduce  concentration  of  growth  inhibitors  and  other  hormones.
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