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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!!
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DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!!
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kulsdood
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 awesome  work...  Peri
 
 Btw  I've  one  question..  I'll  soon  be  moving  into  new  house  where  I  have  provision  for  split  AC's  only..  My  current  window  AC  is  going  to  be  idle..  If  I  try  to  sell  my  existing  Carrier  1  ton  AC  it  will  fetch  me  not  more  than  5k  --  maybe  less...  Can  I  use  it  for  chilling?  What  should  I  modify  for  that?  
 
 Thanks  in  advance
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Shreyasmrao
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 PK  Guruji,  you  finally  did  it.  Congrats.
 
 Long  due.  What  happened  to  your  lovely  tank,  especially  you  must  have  added  some  stuff  from  your  HK  trip.  Did  you  manage  to  salvage  anything?  Really  sorry  to  hear  that.
 
 Like  always  you  reiterate  your  position  as  the  DIY  Guru.
 
 You  Rock   Cheering
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 kulsdood:  we  can  re-model  the  window  unit  by  just  removing  the  heat  exchanger  unit,  it  will  be  similar  to  that  of  a  car-radiator.  there  will  be  one  copper  wire  leading  into  it  and  one  leading  out,  you  can  ask  your  A/c  mechanic  to  remove  that  and  fix  the  in  and  out  of  that  to  the  Titanium  coil  or  Aluminum  coil  (for  FW).  I  would  prefer  Ti  Coil.  If  you  can  sell  that  unit  for  about  5k,  you  can  manage  to  get  a  2nd  hand  outdoor  split  unit  of  about  1  ton  around  4-5k.  Being  summer  it  might  be  expensive,  but  from  sept  onwards  you  should  be  able  to  get  some  good  deals.
 
 Shreyas,  boss  managed  to  save  the  non-moving  marine  stuff  by  an  intuition  and  send  it  to  sampath's  place  before  the  tank  crashed   and  they  are  doing  well  at  his  place.  Whereas  lost  all  the  mobile  Live  stock  then  entire  lot  in  one  go  -  so  have  reset  my  tank  completely  again.  another  couple  of  weeks  for  it  to  complete  cycling  again.  
 
 Pk
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natbox
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 why  did  you  submerge  the  titanium  coils  in  the  salt  water  container?
 
 is  the  water  inside  the  container  same  as  in  the  sump  and  the  tank  ?  Smile
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Great  DIY  boss...  not  sure  about  the  pressure  involved  but  if  we  can  get  some  flexible  hose  that  can  withstand  such  pressure  in  between  the  copper  and  titanium  tube  it  will  be  really  great.  We  will  be  able  to  move  it  around  from  one  Tank/sump  to  another  with  ease  Very HappyVery Happy  How  about  insulating  the  copper  tube  ??
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Prem kk
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Super  PK!  Finally  your  done!  Congratulations!  
 
 Cant  wait  to  get  back  home  to  see  the  unit!
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

                                                   
Perikaruppan  wrote  (View  Post):                
it  works  for  about  20min  for  reducing  the  temp  by  1  degree.  depends  on  the  light  and  motor  load  on  the  system.  i  think  there  will  be  atleast  3  degrees  addition  to  the  tank  on  a  daily  basis  and  that  is  like  1  hour  per  day.  not  sure  on  the  costing  for  1  hour  for  a  1.5ton  A/c.                

 
 Not  more  than  15/-  :)
 
 PK  you  are  simply  great  DIY  guru.   Bow  
 
 Can  we  have  a  cost  estimation  of  the  full  project  excluding  the  AC  unit?
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nash81
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Hi  Pk,
 
 Excellent  stuff  there.  
 Just  have  a  few  questions.  
 
 How  did  you  calculate  the  3  deg  to  a  day.  In  most  setups  about  1  deg  in  a  couple  of  hours  will  be  added  just  by  the  heat  from  Filters,  Wavemakers  and  powerheads.  So  i  am  sure  the  unit  will  run  more  than  1  hour  in  a  day.  Also  this  would  be  climate  dependent.  For  eg.  In  delhi  the  ambient  temperature  touches  42/44  deg.  Here  the  tank  temperature  when  the  unit  is  turned  off  will  rise  very  quickly.  I  look  at  it  this  way.  If  i  take  5  ltrs  of  water  which  is  at  24deg.  It  does  not  take  it  more  than  30mins  for  it  to  reach  30  deg.  Now  considering  the  large  volume  of  water  this  time  may  be  extended.  However  the  5ltr  water  container  does  not  have  any  powerheads,  wavemakers  or  lighting  that  will  add  heat  to  the  tank.  This  is  just  my  observation  and  i  may  be  wrong.
 
 Also  since  the  reduction  in  temperature  is  pretty  quick  as  you  mentioned.  How  does  that  impact  the  live  stock.  Wouldnt  that  be  a  way  to  sudden  change  for  them  and  this  could  cause  some  sort  of  stress.  Is  there  a  way  one  can  increase  that  timeframe?
 
 Since  you  are  running  a  A/c  Unit.  Why  not  directly  run  the  split  blower  above  the  tank.  This  will  not  only  keep  the  tank  cool  but  also  keep  the  room  cool.  If  you  have  MH  or  other  high  heat  generating  lights  that  will  be  taken  care  of  as  well.  However  i  do  understand  that  controlling  the  tank  temperature  there  may  be  difficult.
 
 I  am  though  still  a  little  skeptical  to  the  power  consumption.  Is  it  possible  if  you  have  a  digital  hour  unit  reader  or  a  spare  meter  around  with  anyone  you  know  ..and  can  attach  it  to  the  unit.  This  will  give  us  an  accurate  reading  of  its  daily  consumption  and  a  fair  idea  of  what  the  electricity  bill  is  like.  
 
 Cheers
 Nirav  Shah
 Indiapetstore.com
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

                                                   
nash81  wrote  (View  Post):                
I  am  though  still  a  little  skeptical  to  the  power  consumption.  Is  it  possible  if  you  have  a  digital  hour  unit  reader  or  a  spare  meter  around  with  anyone  you  know  ..and  can  attach  it  to  the  unit.  This  will  give  us  an  accurate  reading  of  its  daily  consumption  and  a  fair  idea  of  what  the  electricity  bill  is  like.  
                 

 
 I  already  have  done  this  part  in  my  home.  1.5Ton  AC  will  consume  12-15/-  per  hour  according  to  Haryana  Power  Unit  price.  In  Chennai  I  think  it  will  be  lesser  than  this.
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nash81
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 @tirtha
 
 The  intention  is  to  check  how  many  units  this  unit  is  exactly  consuming.  As  in  how  many  times  does  it  come  on  and  switch  off.  Cause  it  may  turn  on  for  15-20  mins  more  than  a  few  times  in  a  day.  The  unit  reading  will  tell  us  the  exact  time  frame  and  units  its  consuming  each  day...  Oh  BTW  my  1.5ton  panasonic  is  only  consuming  Rs  8-10/hour  Razz
 So  different  brands  may  have  different  consumptions  as  well.
 
 Cheers
 Nirav  Shah
 Indiapetstore.com
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

                                                   
nash81  wrote  (View  Post):                
@tirtha
 
 The  intention  is  to  check  how  many  units  this  unit  is  exactly  consuming.  As  in  how  many  times  does  it  come  on  and  switch  off.  Cause  it  may  turn  on  for  15-20  mins  more  than  a  few  times  in  a  day.  The  unit  reading  will  tell  us  the  exact  time  frame  and  units  its  consuming  each  day...  Oh  BTW  my  1.5ton  panasonic  is  only  consuming  Rs  8-10/hour  Razz
 So  different  brands  may  have  different  consumptions  as  well.
 
 Cheers
 Nirav  Shah
 Indiapetstore.com                

 
 @Nash  Bro...  got  the  point.  Let  me  go  back  to  home.  Need  to  search  where  I  kept  the  full  calculation.  We  can  calculate  the  unit  consumption  based  on  the  wattage  of  the  AC.  But  roughly,  it  should  not  take  more  than  10/--15/-  per  hour.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 @tritha
 
 Buddy  i  dont  want  to  know  what  the  A/c  consumes
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nash81
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 @tritha
 
 Buddy  i  dont  want  to  know  what  the  A/c  consumes,  I  can  figure  that  myself.  I  want  to  know  what  this  unit  consumes,  how  many  times  does  this  unit  powers  on  and  off  and  what  are  the  total  unit  it  consumes  in  a  day  !!  ...  I  want  to  know  if  this  unit  actually  only  runs  for  1hour  a  day  or  more  than  1hour.....  Also  with  the  modifications  and  i  am  sure  non  insulation  of  the  Copper  pipes,  etc  there  will  be  a  change  in  the  amount  of  consumption.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 Insulating  the  Copper  pipes  is  not  necessary.  Want  it  to  look  good,  wrap  some  old  cloth  over  it.  Keeping  it  out  of  the  sun  is  more  important  and  that  will  anyway  be  taken  care  of.
 The  unit  runs  for  1  hour  per  day,  worst  case  2  hours  per  day  if  PK  is  way  off  his  reckoning.
 
 How  much  does  it  cost  to  run  an  A/C  for  2  hours  in  a  day  ?  Why  should  running  this  unit  for  2  hours  a  day  be  any  different  ?
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: DIY Chiller using Split Outdoor Unit : WORKING!!! Reply with quote

 sorry  for  my  delayed  responses:
 Natbox:  I  had  planned  to  directly  submerse  the  Ti  coil  into  the  sump,  but  the  guy  who  fabricated  the  coil  didnt  make  it  like  an  "L"  shaped  with  the  bottom  part  of  the  L  being  the  wounded  coil  and  the  top  part  being  the  straight  projection  in  which  the  copper  will  be  attached  (this  will  be  out  of  water  contact).  He  had  made  it  like  an  "l"  and  hence  i  had  no  other  go  but  to  make  a  separate  container  for  the  heat  transfer.  Have  asked  him  to  bend  it  like  an  "L"  for  my  next  chiller.  so  that  i  can  directly  put  it  into  the  sump,  and  i  can  use  my  existing  Ti  coil  for  my  other  tanks  if  required.
 
 Tirtha,  the  unit  of  Ti  is  the  most  expensive  :  costed  me  about  9k  and  is  6m  in  length  (the  cost  including  winding  and   getting  the  bolts  fitted  on  the  ends).  My  A/c  guy  for  fixing  the  copper  and  all  costed  3k  plus  another  950  Rs  for  the  digitial  thermostat.  So  without  the  outdoor  unit  it  had  costed  me  13k  approx.  with  the  outdoor  unit  it  shall  be  around  17-18k.  (assuming  the  outdoor  is  a  1ton  used  unit).  
 
 Ilango:  flexi  hosing  at  the  joint  is  a  problem  as  there  might  be  pressure  leaks  which  most  of  the  A/c  mechanics  are  not  comfortable  with.  not  any  major  issues  apart  from  loss  of  gas  as  we  can  re-fill  the  gas,  but  the  compressor  will  be  killed  very  quickly.  any  plumbing  or  any  wiring,  when  we  want  flexibility,  we  should  be  willing  to  expect  failure  anytime  and  be  prepared  for  it   -  I  have  major  experience  in  my  DIYs  when  i  want  Flexibility  in  it.  Now  i  am  in  the  mood  of  minimum  flexibility  and  more  stability  in  the  system.  
 
 Prem:  thanks.  We  will  do  one  for  your  planted  which  is  more  economical  say  70%  of  my   costing.  Lesser  coil  length  is  required  and  lesser  Tonnage  of  A/c  we  can  even  work  with  1/2  ton.
 
 Nash:  First  and  foremost  if  the  ambient  temp  is  around  42-44  the  tank  temp  doesnt  get  close  to  that  anytime.  Here  in  chennai  now  the  ambient  temp  is  around  40  and  my  normal  tank  temp  is  around  31.  And  also  during  normal  operations  without  the  chiller  and  with  all  the  motor  units  added  (2  high  power  motors,  1  for  return  and  1  for  skimmer)  and  four  power  heads  with  the  lights  on  add  about  3  degrees  to  the  tank  temp.  The  3  degree  is  the  difference  in  temp  in  the  tank  in  the  morning  and  at  night,  this  is  with  the  fans  running.  Currently  i  have  turned  off  the  fans  in  the  system  to  minimize  water  evaporation.  This  is  also  the  answer  to  having  the  blower  on  the  surface  of  the  water,  i  do  atleast  30ltrs  of  water  change  per  day  due  to  evaporation.  In  the  last  1  wk  (when  the  chiller  is  working)  i  have  done  only  20  ltrs.  So  there  is  enormous  saving  in  water  addition.  And  with  regards  to  the  sudden  reduction  in  temp,  it  is  only  at  the  first  time  of  installing  the  unit  after  that  the  temp  hovers  between  24  and  25  degree  with  only  1  degree  variation.   I  havent  done  a  precise  working  on  how  many  times  the  unit  turns  on  and  off.  I  have  done  a  seperate  counter  circuit  that  i  will  add  only  when  i  get  back  to  chennai  on  6th.  But  when  i  was  there  when  the  unit  was  operational,  the  unit  turned  on  once  in  the  morning  and  twice  in  the  afternoon  to  late  evening  so  totally  thrice  it  turned  on  and  it  maintained  the  temp  at  25.  That  is  three  times  20  min  each  to  make  it  60  min,  whereas  there  is  a  probability  that  the  unit  was  on'd  at  night  time  that  i  didnt  have  a  count.  Even  it  it  had  done  twice  it  totally  adds  upto  about  1.5  hours  a  day  which  is  pretty  good  for  a  1000lt  tank.
 
 With  regards  to  the  insulation,  that  part  of  the  copper  pipe  was  not  insulated  for  testing  purposes.  by  now  it  would  have  been  insulated  and  compact  till  the  Ti  coil  segment.
 
 I  dont  have  a  watt  meter  nor  do  i  know  anyone  who  does  have  one.  But  can  know  my  power  consumption  on  a  approximate  basis  when  the  bill  arrives  and  i  dont  think  it  iwill  be  far  different  if  i  had  used  an  Aquarium  Chiller.  I  have  already  explained  my  method  of  working  on  the  cost,  and  i  feel  this  is  far  more  better  than  that  of  an  aquarium  chiller  in  many  ways.  The  best  is,  i  can  have  two  tanks  hooked  onto  a  single  chilling  unit  (assuming,  both  the  tanks  become  operational  at  the  same  time  and  both  the  tanks  have  approximately  the  same  motor  load).
 
 Pk


Last edited by Perikaruppan on Fri May 29, 2009 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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