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Tirtha C
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 Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: Is It An Iwagumi?? Updated 15.07.09 |
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For a long time I was planning to setup and Iwagumi. read a lot in Net. But as I kept on reading, I was getting more confused on the key points. So gave up on that thought and planned to make a Simple Rock scape like below.
Then after reading the inputs given by Madan Sir, for last couple of week, I again started to think on an Iwagumi. And just now I have created this Rock Setup keeping all the technical points in mind. But not sure if it qualifies as an Iwagumi. Sorry for the poor light, as my original light set went kaput yesterday.
I tried to make it a Sanzon Iwagumi (3 Pillers Setup). The tank does not have a proper dimension. It's 24x18x12. The width is too less to make an good Iwagumi I think. 
1. 4 white spots are 4 Focal Point according to golden ratio. (I cropped top of the tank to avoid ugly water marks).
2. The Main Rock Pointing to Left and the peak is touching one focal point (Almost).
3. The supporting rocks are moving out from the focal points.
Will wait for your feedback and criticism to learn this technique better.  |
Last edited by Tirtha C on Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mandragoran
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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Tirtha,
All I can offer are a couple of simple suggestions- certainly not an expert in Iwagumi, though.
I would reposition the rock on the left slightly,moving it clockwise and shifting the base such that the peak/tip intersects that first focal point (clockwise, from top left). In addition to this, I would shift the rock on the right anti-clockwise such that its slope cuts across the third focal point (clockwise, from topleft). In fact, the focal point here would be the slope of this rock cutting across the body of the main rock behind.
As far as the support rock goes, I feel it would be better if the third one was bigger than it is now. I don;t think this rock is big enough to support the others.
Also,I would look at shifting the whole arrangement to a left-side orientation, since that's one of the things Mr.Amano mentioned dueing his Q&A session at Aquatika.
HTH,
Ashwin |
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Seetharam
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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Hey Tirtha
I personally like the first one, a split scape Iwagumi has always been my favourite, however it needs a 3rd piece to complete the scape to qualify as an Iwagumi.
In the second one, Keeping all stone inclinations the same, I would bring the primary stone in front and move the sub stone to the back. In the current placement the substone is highlighted more as it is in the front which should not be the case.
There are a couple of things you can consider , but its too huge to list out here, Please check your mail  |
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maximus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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Tirthada,
Well I am too novice to comment on this scape.But if you ask me I would love to go with the split scape rather than the sanzon iwagumi.The first pic shows great character of the rocks.Well I feel a,as Seetharam has suggested,a third rock on the left side would complete the connection and a few small rocks on the right side would show how with time and ages the rocks have disintegrated but still have a bond of unity inbetween them.I mean the invisible connection string between the rocks that's so often talked about in Iwagumi. |
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mmb19000
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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I m also not an expert. Just read info about Iwagumi.
I read about golden ratio. in above setup i think that golden ratio is not maintained. IMO The bigger rock should be more towards Left side.
but its my opinion only. |
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garothmaan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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according to my view, it looks like two frogs sitting together in a public toilet :cry:
sorry  |
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mmb19000
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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| garothmaan wrote (View Post):
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according to my view, it looks like two frogs sitting together in a public toilet :cry:
sorry
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 thts really funny garothmaan |
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retro_gk
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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| garothmaan wrote (View Post):
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according to my view, it looks like two frogs sitting together in a public toilet :cry:
sorry
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ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
omg |
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Tirtha C
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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Thanks Ashwin, Seetharam, Abhisek and Maulik for your inputs.
Ashwin, yes the rocks needs to be realigned a bit to meet the focal points. will try to do that.
@Seetha, if I move the first supporting stone to the back, then the main rock will almost touch the front glass. width is only 12". But agree with you and abhisek, that the split scape is looking much better. I can add a second supporting rock to the left to make it complete. But not sure about the technicality involved in a split Iwagumi.
| garothmaan wrote (View Post):
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according to my view, it looks like two frogs sitting together in a public toilet :cry:
sorry
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Garoth, your comments are just like masters strock!! Simply ultimate. Hats off to your creative thoughts.  |
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oceanhaze
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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"
The largest rock must be placed to the LEFT of center and must be inclined towards the left.
The basic ratio of 2:3 must be adhered to in ANY layout. No compromises.
This is the golden rule I heard him tell us ! "
quote from madan............as told to us by the master himself
i believe the 2nd largest rock should be on the right of the center and should be a little inclined to right.
left:right rock ratio = 2:3.with largest rock in the left.
but this has no relation with the classic Iwagumi layout which says "
The most common iwagumi style is called sanzon iwagumi. Sanzon means "three pillar" in Japanese and these aquascapes make use of three rocks, with two smaller rocks and one larger rock.The grouping of stones comes from Buddhism; the central stone is called the chuusonskei (or the big Buddha) and the smaller flanking stones are called kyoujiseki (or attendant stones). The kyoujiseki are often tilted or pointed towards the chuusonskei as if bowing down to it. The chuusonskei is almost always positioned according to the Golden Rule.
http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2006/11/golden-rule-of-aquascaping.html
the above link will give you the best idea about the golden rule.
5 rocks should be the best looking setup. and odd no of stones to be used.
rocks should be large so as to keep it visible when the plants grow up and small support rocks to be used for support only and covered with sand/substrate.
and the substrate should be spread such that the bare tank with just the stones should feel natural.That is it should appear that the roods/base of the rock seem to emerge from the bottom making it give afeeling that it has grown like a tree trunk from under the substrate. |
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garothmaan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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for the exact sand orientation, try this
close your eyes, and try to imagine yourself on a beach. You are standing on a high rock hill, looking down on other towering rocks, its broad day light, but not too much sun, good white clouds overhead, very good visibility. The shore and the sky are meeting(near horizon), the water is flowing in and out, and now a larger surge of wave has just passed disturbing the sand. THIS ! resettled sand after the water returns back, SHOULD be the best orientation of this gravel around the rocks.... and thats what exactly was done by Mr Takashi in that Iwagumi tank... remember?
HOWZ that! |
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retro_gk
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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| oceanhaze wrote (View Post):
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"
The largest rock must be placed to the LEFT of center and must be inclined towards the left.
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Why? |
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Seetharam
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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| I have studied Amano's Iwagumi works for close to a year now, there is no rule followed by Amano which says the main rock HAS to be placed on the left, placements totally depends on the characteristics of the rock which you want to showcase. Based on the positioning of the Primary, the placement of supporting and sub stones are decided. |
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Tirtha C
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Is It An Iwagumi?? Need your Feedback and Criticism |
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| Seetharam wrote (View Post):
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I have studied Amano's Iwagumi works for close to a year now, there is no rule followed by Amano which says the main rock HAS to be placed on the left, placements totally depends on the characteristics of the rock which you want to showcase. Based on the positioning of the Primary, the placement of supporting and sub stones are decided.
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Exactly this is what I am confused with. I saw many scapes by Amano where he didn't use this approch. Even the link you have forwarded me today morning, he setup the scape without maintaining the above points. Even the Iwagumis created by Europians or Americans, I saw they are not following these rules. Last year AGA 2nd Prize winner used arround 40 rocks to setup the Iwagumi where he didn't use a specific Main rock or supporting rocks. But his scape got kudos from Mr. Amano himself.
Rock Placement in 3:2 ratio
Golden ratio
Focal Point etc can be understood. But rest of the part is just bonkers for me. The complete Iwagumi seems to be a confusing concept.
Better I will stick to Rockagumi. It will be easy for me to setup. |
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joyban
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