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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice
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Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice
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aquamarine
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 I  am  planning  a  1  ft  cube  salt  water  aquarium.  This  is  my  first  serious  fish  keeping.  Please  read  fully  before  posting  your  valuable  comments.
 
 The  1ft  cube  will  have  live  sand  and  man  made  live  rock   (MMLR),  that  will  also  act  as  biological  filter  (dont  ask  me  for  what!).  No  skimmer,  sump,  refugium.  No  *fish*  as  I  really  think  that  keeping  fish  in  such  small  space  is  torturing  them.  I  plan  to  keep  this  running  for  at  least  6  months  to  1  year  to  get  first  hand  experience.  Now  my  questions  for  the  time  being  are:
 
 1.  What  can  I  grow(at  least  help  to  grow)  on  the  MMLR?  Coralline  algae?  
 2.  Will  products  like  purple  up  help?
 3.  Can  MMLR  (plan  to  get  from  nash81)  really  help  grow  stuff  on  them?
 4.  Since  there  will  be  NO  livestock  introduced  by  me,  will  it  require  the  same  amount  of  monitoring?  
 5.  Can  the  LR  survive  a  2-3  hours  load  shedding  per  day  or  an  inverter  is  required?
 6.  Eventually  if  I  plan  to  introduce  some  livestock  (of  course  all  the  above  questions  will  have  to  be  re-framed  then),  how  easy  or  legal  is  it  to  get  mushrooms,  scarlet  hermit  crabs  and  cleaner  shrimps  in  India?
 
 All  brickbats  are  also  welcome,  as,  if  this  is  not  feasible,  I'll  stop  (unlikely)  /  alter  (most  likely)  it.
 
 Thanks
 Aquamarine  (I  like  to  be  addressed  by  this  name  only  please)
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rahulk
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 1.  What  can  I  grow(at  least  help  to  grow)  on  the  MMLR?  Coralline  algae?
 Is  it  dry  rock  or  has  it  been  in  a  tank  which  has  coralline  and  other  critters?
 
 2.  Will  products  like  purple  up  help?
 maintain  you  ALK,MAG,CAL  &  Ph,  purple  up  is  not  needed
 
 3.  Can  MMLR  (plan  to  get  from  nash81)  really  help  grow  stuff  on  them?
 Depends  on  how  its  been  cured.
 
 4.  Since  there  will  be  NO  livestock  introduced  by  me,  will  it  require  the  same  amount  of  monitoring?
 Fresh  water  topup  will  do  
 
 5.  Can  the  LR  survive  a  2-3  hours  load  shedding  per  day  or  an  inverter  is  required?
 No  Problem  here
 
 6.  Eventually  if  I  plan  to  introduce  some  livestock  (of  course  all  the  above  questions  will  have  to  be  re-framed  then),  how  easy  or  legal  is  it  to  get  mushrooms,  scarlet  hermit  crabs  and  cleaner  shrimps  in  India?  
 
 hermits  and  cleaner  shrimps  are  leagal,  No  idea  of  the  availability.
 Mushrooms  according  to  CITES  is  legal.
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aquamarine
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Thanks  a  lot  Rahul.  I  have  to  speak  to  Nirav  regarding  the  MMLR.  I  have  only  read  about  it  on  the  indiapetstore  web  site.  Thats  precisely  the  reason  for  keepin  it  in  this  way  for  6  months  to  1  year  to  get  a  proper  growout.  I'll  take  it  up  further  from  there.
 
 Cheers
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 sorry  to  correct  but,  purple  up  or  any  other  method  of  maintaining  the  water  parameters  in  control  will  only  boost  coralline  -  not  produce  it!
 so  aquamarine,  you  should  seed  the  tank  with  coralline  by  scraping  a  LR  from  either  another  reef  tank  or  collect  your  scrapings  from  the  wild.
 WRT  the  introduction  of  inverts  as  and  when  you  think  suitable  you  will  definately  require  some  water  movement  to  ensure  that  the  softies  remain  free  from  sedimentation  so  plan  for  a  wave  maker  device  even  a  small  CSD  would  do  the  trick.(cheap  and  effective  but  will  be  a  bit  noisy)
 If  I  were  you  I  would  plan  a  fully  carpeted  tank  with  different  coloured  zoanthids!   Smile  (they  are  tolerant  to  a  lot  of  abuse  also  so  the  power  outage  should  not  bother  you)  since  the  tank  is  small  I  would  suggest  LED  lights  Very Happy
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aquamarine
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Hi  aquascapes,
 
 thanks  for  your  valuable  suggestions.  Better  read  about  zoa  toxicity  first!
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Here's  what  you  can  do  with  an  18  inch  cube!
 
 http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=a59b0280e650325b4f1daba2ddef4bd1&threadid=970993
 
 Should  give  you  enough  inspiration,  I  am  sure.  You  could  downsize  some  stuff  to  your  12  inch  cube.
 
 Look  at  the  circulation  thats  used  here,  and  derive  the  ratio.  You  will  have  something  to  work  on,  for  sure!
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

                                                   
aquamarine  wrote  (View  Post):                
Hi  aquascapes,
 thanks  for  your  valuable  suggestions.  Better  read  about  zoa  toxicity  first!                

 just  hyped  up  stories  if  it  was  true  I  would  not  be  alive  to  post  this!
 Nytyn  thanks  for  the  link  simply  beautiful  but  read  Jemram's  signature  -  it  says  (hobby  experience  20  years)
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aquamarine
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Hi  Nytyn,
 
 I  am  speechless.  
 
 @aquascapes:
 What  kind  of  zoas  do  you  suggest?  Are  mushrooms,  button  polyps  etc  illegal  too?  How  easily  are  they  available  in  India?
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aquamarine
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Looking  for  more  enlightenment:
 
 Today  I  visited  a  shop.  Has  no  marine  fish  but  said  could  get  anything  under  the  sun.  They  were  offering  me  some  'hollow  rock"  that  had  holes  in  them.  Told  me  it  is  marine  aquarium  and  will  have  'super  growth'  on  them.  I  came  back  and  found  on  the  net  that  they  look  *somewhat*  like  lace  rock.  Now  can  lace  rock  be  put  in  marine  setup?  Moreover  he  said  that  it  can  be  used  "only  for  marine'.  I  though  lace  rock  was  standard  cichlid  set  up  for  many  aquarists!  Please  throw  some  light!!!
 The  rock  looks  SOMEWHAT  like  this:
 http://www.aquaristic.net/shop.php/sid/ff6b1d845d6d85514c66b5b61a05e0e1/cl/moredetails/cnid/-/anid/363260/Dragon%20stone%20per%20kg./
 Also  plenty  of  dead  corals  were  on  offer.  Are  these  of  any  use?  And  will  I  be  hauled  up  for  keeping  these  fossils  in  case  some  green  algae  grows  on  them  and  make  them  "live"?
 
 Confusions  galore:
 With  reading  comes  the  confusion.  I  have  come  across  the  following  stuff  while  reading  threads  here  and  other  places.  Can  any  of  the  experts  clarify:
 
 1A.  Do  not  use  deep  sand  bed  (DSB)  if  you  dont  have  sand  sifters  as  it  will  trap  detrius  etc.
 1B.Definitely  use  DSB  even  for  a  1  clown  fish  set  up  for  natural  filtering,  even  without  sand  sifters.
 
 2A.  Using  Live  rocks  is  enough  for  nano  set  ups,  no  need  for  external  filters  as  they  become  nitrate  factories  if  not  cleaned  properly.
 2B.  Irrespective  of  LR,  must  kep  external  canister  filters.
 2C.   Do  not  use  LR.  Just  coral  sand  and  crushed  coral  is  enough.
 
 3A.  Protein  skimmer  is  a  must  for  this  hobby  irrespective  of  tank  size.
 3B.  Never  a  skimmer  as  it  goes  on  removing  trace  elements.  Test  parameters  frequently  and  do  frequent  water  change
 
 4A.  Must  use  live  sand
 4B.  Live  sand  is  banned.  Must  use  coral   sand  with  crushed  coral  on  top.
 
 Thank  God  IAH  is  there  with  all  you  guys  for  help.
 
 Regards.
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nash81
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
1A.  Do  not  use  deep  sand  bed  (DSB)  if  you  dont  have  sand  sifters  as  it  will  trap  detrius  etc.
 1B.Definitely  use  DSB  even  for  a  1  clown  fish  set  up  for  natural  filtering,  even  without  sand  sifters.
 
 2A.  Using  Live  rocks  is  enough  for  nano  set  ups,  no  need  for  external  filters  as  they  become  nitrate  factories  if  not  cleaned  properly.
 2B.  Irrespective  of  LR,  must  kep  external  canister  filters.
 2C.   Do  not  use  LR.  Just  coral  sand  and  crushed  coral  is  enough.
 
 3A.  Protein  skimmer  is  a  must  for  this  hobby  irrespective  of  tank  size.
 3B.  Never  a  skimmer  as  it  goes  on  removing  trace  elements.  Test  parameters  frequently  and  do  frequent  water  change
 
 4A.  Must  use  live  sand
 4B.  Live  sand  is  banned.  Must  use  coral   sand  with  crushed  coral  on  top.                

 
 1A/1B  -  This  has  always  been  questionable.  DSB  if  not  setup  right  it  will  become  a  nitrate  factory.  Since  you  are  new  to  the  marine  hobby  i  would  suggest  to  keep  things  as  simple  as  you  can.
 
 2A/2B/2C  -  Live  rock  is  the  best  natural  form  of  filtration.  Many  hobbyist  abroad  and  i  am  sure  in  india  have  maintained  great  tanks  without  any  external  filteration.  Currently  out  of  my  3  marine  tanks,  one  which  is  23G,  i  have  kept  no  external  filtration.
 
 3A  -  Protein  skimmer  is  a  very  integral  part  of  the  marine  tank.  recently  turf  screens  have  been  the  new  hot  spot,  they  claim  the  elimination  of  the  need  of  protein  skimmer.
 3B  -  Water  changes  are  the  best  form  of  up  keeping  of  your  tank  you  can  have.
 
 4A/4B  -  Coral  sand  /  crushed  coral  is  banned  too.  
 
 Well  personally  i  think  1feet  cube  is  really  very  small  to  keep  the  water  parameters  intact  but  definitely  not  impossible.  You  may  have  to  do  weekly  water  changes  if  possible  and  i  think  that  should  work  well.  
 
 If  i  would  be  you  and  i  was  setting  up  this  1ft  cube  what  i  would  do  is,  Put  about  8-10kg  of  live  rock,  one  wave  maker  for  a  good  flow  rate,  a  14000K  MH  on  it.  I  would  make  it  an  zoanthids,  polyps  and  mushroom  tank  only.  I  would  not  use  any  external  filtration  and  do  weekly  water  changes.  
 
 The  above  is  just  my  thought.  Each  one  to  its  own.
 
 Cheers
 Nirav  Shah
 Indiapetstore.com
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aquamarine
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Hi  Nirav,
 
 Thanks  a  lot  for  replying.  A  few  clarifications  please.
 
 What  would  you  suggest  about  substrate?  Just  8-10  kg  live  rock  with  no  sand  etc?
 Isn't  live  rock  banned  too  (what  exactly  is  available  legally?  :Shock:  )
 Wont  14000K  MH  (assuming  70W)  not  make  it  very  hot  (particularly  in  summers)?  Can  the  zoas  survive?
 Can  laced  rocks  be  used  in  marine  tanks?
 
 Warm  Regards
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aquamarine
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Hi  Nirav,
 
 Thanks  a  lot  for  replying.  A  few  clarifications  please.
 
 What  would  you  suggest  about  substrate?  Just  8-10  kg  live  rock  with  no  sand  etc?
 Isn't  live  rock  banned  too  (what  exactly  is  available  legally?  :Shock:  )
 Wont  14000K  MH  (assuming  70W)  not  make  it  very  hot  (particularly  in  summers)?  Can  the  zoas  survive?
 Can  laced  rocks  be  used  in  marine  tanks?
 
 Warm  Regards
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 IMO,  Wave  Maker  will  be  an  overkill  and  look  ugly  in  1'  cube  tank  and  as  well  as  Metal  Halide  lamp,  it  will  simply  boil  the  tank  water.
 
 The  best  bet  would  be  LED  lighting  unit  as  already  suggested  by  our  marine  guru,  Nauzer  (aquascapes)  and  a  400-500  L/H  power  head  for  water  circulation.
 
 
 
 You  can  use  a  thin  layer  of  crushed  coral  sand  as  substrate.
 
 
 
 Since  its  a  1'  cube,  I  would  suggest  an  EHEIM  Hang  on  Back  filter  as  well.  The  filter  is  a  bit  costly  compared  with  available  Chinese  brands  but  worth  the  invest
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nash81
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
 Hi  Nirav,
 
 Thanks  a  lot  for  replying.  A  few  clarifications  please.
 
 What  would  you  suggest  about  substrate?  Just  8-10  kg  live  rock  with  no  sand  etc?
 Isn't  live  rock  banned  too  (what  exactly  is  available  legally?  :Shock:  )
 Wont  14000K  MH  (assuming  70W)  not  make  it  very  hot  (particularly  in  summers)?  Can  the  zoas  survive?
 Can  laced  rocks  be  used  in  marine  tanks?
 
 Warm  Regards                

 
 Hi,
 
 All  my  marine  tanks  have  chillers  in  them  for  a  1footer  you  can  go  for  a  small  chiller,  cause  if  you  put  any  kind  of  lighting  the  heat  of  the  light  is  going  to  boil  it  in  summers  and  your  live  stock  will  not  withstand  that  temperature,  now  that  if  you  are  going  to  use  a  chiller  why  not  give  it  the  best  lighting  and  my  personal  experience  tells  me  Zoanthids  do  best  in  14000K  /  20000K  lighting.  Not  that  they  dont  survive  in  LED  /  T5  or  PL  or  CFL,  but  i  have  seen  them  propagate  a  lot  faster  under  those  light  conditions.
 
 I  dont  quiet  like  crush  corals  or  coral  sand  cause  it  turns  really  ugly  intime,  when  it  becomes  brown.  I  prefer  argonite  based  live  sand  or  red  sea  reef  base.
 
 If  you  have  live  rock,  i  dont  think  you  need  any  other  filtration  just  keep  your  water  changes  to  weekly  or  even  twice  in  a  week  should  be  good  if  you  can  manage  it.  Sine  the  water  volume  is  going  to  be  small  you  can  easily  prepare  your  water  in  a  simple  25ltr  home  bucket.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
 IMO,  Wave  Maker  will  be  an  overkill  and  look  ugly  in  1'  cube  tank  and  as  well  as  Metal  Halide  lamp,  it  will  simply  boil  the  tank  water.
                 

 
 You  have  nano  wavemakers  available  today.  A  chiller  should  take  care  of  the  MH.
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DJ_Rocky
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Planning 7G Aquarium, need specific advice Reply with quote

 Since  its  gonna  be  your  first  attempt  to  salty  side  and  would  a  learning  and  as  well  as  a  experimental  tank,  I  would  suggest  you  to  avoid  expenditure.
 Aragonite  reef  sand,  chiller  &  wave  maker  will  simply  cost  you  a  fortune.  For  beginners,  I  totally  belive  in  'Poor  Man's  Reef'  concept.
 
 Search  our  marine  fish  section  for  above  mentioned  thread  started  by  our  very  own  marine  champion,  Nauzer  (aquascapes).  Thumb Up
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