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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Beginner Marine with home made rock
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Beginner Marine with home made rock

 
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ARINDAMK
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 HI
 
 I  have  kept  freshwater  aquarium(both  planted  /  fish  with  artificial  decors)  and  brackish  water  since  last  12  yrs.  I  have  now  started  with  my  first  marine  with  Home  Made  Rock  (shells  and  whiet  cement,  its  cured  for  90days!).  My  aquarium  is  15Gal  and  have  put  in  my  own  rocks  plus  a  peice  of  real  live  rock  from  Indonasia.  I  live  in  UAE  and  near  to  sea  shore.  I  went  to  shore  one  day  and  caught  some  Bivalve  and  crambs(was  hoping  to  catch  Hermit  but  could  not).  My  tank  is  now  in  its  8th  day  water  chemistry  is  cool  ,  I  was  trating  with  AMmovec  ,  my  pH  is  8.2,  Nitrite  is  0  salinity  is  1.022.  Yet  to  put  fish  in  it.  I  am  using  CFL  now  but  got  blue  actinic  LEDs  and  datlight  T8  from  OSRAM  ,  waiting  for  my  hood  to  be  done(still  cutting  plys!!!).  
 
 I  have  a  questions  for  you  experiacne,  please  look  at  my  attached  pictures  and  looking  at  the  bivalve  and  Crab  ,  could  you  please  tell  me  if  you  know  them  and  are  they  safe  to  keep  in  my  FOWLR  tank.  
 My  filtration  is  with  a  in  tank  skimmer  and  all  bio  logical  rock.
 (If  you  are  interested  to  know  more  about  home  made  rocks,  please  PM  me!)
 
 Waiting  for  you  suggestions,  GURUs!
 
 Arindam
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ARINDAMK
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 Sorry  about  the  tyops  in  the  posts,  my  keyboard  has  some  problem.  Need  to  change  the  laptop  soon.!  Please  ignore  my  spelling  mistakes!
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 Arvindam,
 Though  this  question  is  adressed  to  the  gurus  I  would  dare  to  voice  out  my  observations...
 1) Please  change  the  layout  of  your  tank  -  sorry  I  don't  mean  to  be  rude  but,  it  looks  like  a  coral  graveyard...  I  would  add  a  few  more  rocks  but  not  the  ones  like  what  you  have  in  the  picture....try  out  some  interesting  shapes  (you  are  at  an  advantage  to  'design'  your  rock  work  as  you  'make'  your  rocks!)  add  common  salt  to  the  final  cement  mix  just  dry  enough  to  ensure  that  the  salt  crystals  soak  the  moisture  in  the  cement  and  dissolve...this  will  ensure  that  you  have  a  much  porous  rock  structure.
 2) If  I  were  you  I  would  not  start  off  with  inverts  in  the  tank….I  would  rather  try  my  hand  at  keeping  fish  first.  Even  that  would  be  too  early  now!  Let  the  tank  cycle  with  introducing  some  natural  live  rocks….this  eventually  would  even  seed  your  MMLRs!
 3)
                                                 
Quote:                
My  filtration  is  with  a  in  tank  skimmer  and  all  bio  logical  rock.                
 
 I  guess  it  is  ill-logical  to  think  that  way  as  you  don’t  expect  the  single  piece  of  Indonesian  LR  to  cycle  your  tank  in  8  days!  
 
                                                 
Quote:                
If  you  are  interested  to  know  more  about  home  made  rocks,  please  PM  me                

 Why  the  PM  business?  If  you  have  something  good  and  interesting  to  share....share  it  with  all  of  us!
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ARINDAMK
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 Aquascpae,
 Thanx  for  your  email.  I  liked  your  comment  on  'Coral  Graveyard!',  yeah  I  admit  the  'scape'  has  become  bad  and  now  I  have  changed  them.  Will  post  the  picture  within  a  day  or  so.  
 
 Inverts  are  doing  OK  so  far  and  dont  even  see  amonia  spike  and  I  started  to  see  loads  of  small  creatures  appearing  in  my  water  (looks  like  very  small  shrimps  and  some  worms).  Yuo  are  right  8days  me  too  is  not  confident  enough  about  the  cycle,  but  my  test  ressults  are  all  within  the  range!  I  cant  balem  it  to  my  test  kit  too,  its  SERA  and  quite  a  good  one(I  have  used  only  SERA  for  all  my  freshwater  tanks  so  far,  can  bet  on  their  quality!)
 
 But  again  thnx  for  the  tips,  gimme  sometime  I  will  show  you  a  better  aquarium!
 
 Arindam
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neoaqua
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 Hi  Arindam,
 
 Nauzer  (aquascapes)  IS  the  guru!
 
 Hi  Nauzer,
 
 Sorry  to  gatecrash,  but  why  is  it  not  advisable  to  keep  inverts  first?  What  about  invert  only  nano  /  small  tanks?  How  to  introduce  inverts  in  them?  I  am  trying  to  understand  from  you,  not  countering  your  point!
 
 Edit:  One  more  thing,  now  that  Arindam  has  started  his  tank,  can  he  speed  up  his  cycling  in  any  way  (my  guess  being  adding  bacteria  etc).  Or  rather  how  can  he  protect  the  inverts?  By  adding  stuff  like  Ammolock  etc?  Or  his  best  option  is  to  return  them  to  the  sea  and  get  them  later  after  cycling  is  over?
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ARINDAMK
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 One  thing  I  forgot  to  tell  about  the  cycling,  I  prepared  water  and  used  my  'URINE'  to  seed  amonia!!(YAK!!)  but  it  did  worked  for  me.  I  used  ammovac  from  SERA  to  seed  bacteria  and  kept  doing  my  aquarium  with  my  urine  for  4days!!  I  read  tit  in  about.com  and  tried.  May  be  you  guys  can  try  too!  The  results  are  good  so  far!
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 @Arvindam,
 Thanks  buddy  honest  advice  taken  in  the  right  spirit!
 See,  I  just  want  to  see  a  beautiful  aquascape  in  your  tank....thus  the  advice!
 No,  I  don't  doubt  your  test  kits  but,  please  understand  in  a  small  tank  things  happen  fast  and  often  you  don't  get  time  to  even  test  the  water..........Not  scaring  you  just  a  word  of  caution!
 Yes,  I  would  not  start  off  with  inverts  for  one  out  of  many  reasons.......Your  tank  is  not  yet  cycled...see  the  ammonia  need  a  source  of  production  it  cannot  enter  your  tank  from  thin  air..normally  people  used  to  add  a  single  fish  as  a  scape  goat  during  the  cycling  phase  but,  now-a-days  people  prefer  fish-less  cycling...either  a  piece  of  dead  shrimp  or  even  ammonium  chloride  or  even  natural  LRs  etc...because  they  all  'produce'  ammonia!  (The  LR  in  the  curing  phase  has  a  lot  of  die-off  -  thus  the  ammonia  production)
 The  above  method  triggers  the  production  of  ammonia  now,  the  man-made  live  rocks  (or  any  other  object  in  the  tank  including  your  substrate  etc.)  are  not  as  capable  to  cope  up  with  this  production  of  ammonia  as  it  will  take  time  to  be  a  'nitrifying  bacteria  colony'  further  more  if  your  LRs  are  porous  the  anoxic  zone  'inside'  the  LRs  will  also  start  being  colonised  with  de-nitrifying  bacteria.  This  whole  procedure  of  'bacteria  build  up'  is  technically  known  as  the  nitrogen  cycle  (I  guess  you  must  know  this  from  your  fresh  water  experience)  which  eventually  brings  the  tank  into  a  state  of  equilibrium  where  the  production  of  ammonia  is  no  longer  a  threat  to  the  Live  stock  (macro  life)  of  the  tank  as  the  bacteria  (micro  life)  takes  care  of  the  organic  waste  matter.
 @Avi,
 Hi!  see  I  say  this  time  and  again...  every  tank  is  different!
 Yes,  you  can  introduce  inverts  first  if  you  want  but,  do  you  have  the  set-up  that  can  support  the  inverts'  life?
 In  this  case  MMLRs  are  not  yet  'seeded'  to  be  branded  as  a  substitute  to  natural  LRs  so  till  they  have  a  healty  colony  of  bacteria,  algae,  burrowing  inverts  and  a  lot  of  other  micro  and  macro  fauna...etc..  that  typically  colonise  a  natural  LR..it  is  difficult  to  sustain  invertebrates...I  understand  if  you  have  an  algae  infestation  and  introduce  some  snails  etc.....that  is  ok  because  you  are  actually  providing  the  inverts  with  their  preffered  food.
 Sorry  saw  your  post  after  you  posted  so  editing  my  post....
 Arvindam,  I  guess  a  lot  of  people  here  will  frown  upon  the  idea  that  you  have  kept  a  couple  of  inverts  in  a  dilute  solution  of  ‘your’  waste  aka  urine
 now  since  you  read  about  the  production  of  ammonia  to  kick  start  the  cycling  you  will  understand  that  it  is  not  humane  to  keep  anything  as  live  stock  in  the  tank.
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nash81
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 Hi  Arindam,
 
 The  rocks  definitely  need  a  better  structure  to  it.  They  are  all  flat  and  kind  of  makes  me  think  would  not  be  all  that  porus,  hence  will  not  create  the  required  bacteria.  I  am  not  sure  what  process  you  used  to  make  it  and  the  curing  time  of  the  rock  post  they  were  made.  I  have  made  a  lot  of  rocks  with  different  cement  mixtures  and  all  the  rocks  needed  atleast  8-10  weeks  of  curing  time  before  they  stopped  leaching.
 
 With  regards  to  the  Nauzer  Sirs  advice  on  the  inverts,  i  would  surely  agree  to  it.  In  a  small  tank,  sailinity  and  ph  could  swing  in  no  time,  Since  you  are  using  MMLR  and  i  am  not  sure  if  they  are  fully  cured  before  the  addition  it  could  leach  in  the  tank  and  cause  very  high  pH  swings  which  both  fish  nor  inverts  will  handle  it.  Secondly  your  tank  is  not  even  cycled  yet  and  inverts  i  doubt  will  be  able  to  take  the  stress.  
 
 With  regards  to  your  cycling  method,  i  am  not  going  to  comment  cause  i  dont  find  it  "SANE",  there  are  many  simple  ways  to  do  the  same.  If  Human  waste  was  good  for  life  form,  they  there  would  not  be  so  much  hue  and  cry  of  eliminating  it  into  the  sea  and  it  effects  on  the  ecological  system.  Also  you  waste  may  contain  certain  minerals  which  i  am  not  sure  if  its  desirable  in  the  tank.  Lastly  human  waste  in  any  form  in  your  tank  would  essentially  be  a  breeding  ground  of  diseases  for  the  humans  living  in  your  home.  Wont  want  to  comment  anything  further  on  this.
 
 Lastly  add  some  more  live  rock  in  the  tank  to  seed  your  MMLR  better.
 
 Cheers
 Nirav  Shah
 Indiapetstore.com
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ARINDAMK
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 aquascape  and  nash
 
 Thnx  for  all  your  tips/suggestion/advices  and  BTW  be  assured  its  all  taken  in  right  spirit  Smile.   The  rocks  are  flat  because  of  2  reason  -  this  is  my  first  batch  and  couldnt  mold  them  well.  But  they  were  cured  for  90days  and  I  check  pH  before  putting  them  in  tank.  it  also  seems  to  me  porous  but  again  can  be  obviously  made  better.  I  am  working  on  a  rock  sclupture  made  out  of  white  cement  /  fine  crushed  coral  and  some  sea  salt.  this  will  be  better  and  wil  put  in  my  new  tank  may  be  sometime  in  Dec.  and  need  to  uses  these  live  rock  as  my  seed(getting  live  rock  in  UAE  is  very  defficult  and  too  expensive,  it  about  750Rs/kg  here,  is  it  as  expensive  in  India  too?)
 
 Gimme  some  time  -  its  my  promse  to  give  you  a  better  tank  -  even  may  be  a  reef  in  future!!  
 
 Thnx  again  for  being  helpful  here!
 
 Arindam
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 Sure  you  will  if  you  take  good  advice  in  the  right  spirit!
 Just  a  single  thing  I  wanted  to  add  here  (please  clear  my  doubts)
 
                                                 
Quote:                
I  was  trating  with  AMmovec  ,  my  pH  is  8.2,  Nitrite  is  0                

 somehow  the  idea  of  bacteria  in  a  bottle  has  never  made  me  feel  comfortable..........I  don't  want  to  start  an  argument  regarding  that  but,  if  you  say  you  added  your  urine  to  the  tank  and  then  tested  nitrites........why?
 Logic  tells  me  that  when  you  add  ammonia....you  test  ammonia  first....then  nitrites  and  then  nitrates...anyways,  if  you  say  the  nitrites  are  not  detected  in  the  water  then  either  your  nitrogen  cycle  has  not  yet  started  which  means  you  will  have  an  ammonia  spike..test  ammonia  first  and  see...BTW  please  release  the  inverts  as  soon  as  possible  and  oblige......them
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popatlal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 gr8  Very Happy
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Bettalover27
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 I  don't  mean  to  backseat  moderate  but  popatlal,  please  don't  post  on  old  threads,  it  pushes  down  newer  and  sometimes  urgent  threads.  Thanks.
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popatlal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Beginner Marine with home made rock Reply with quote

 Very Happy
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