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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell
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Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

                                                   
vaibhav9322  wrote  (View  Post):                
@Yogesh  :-  you  use  Epsom  Salt   after  metro  treatment  ,,,why?                

 
                                                 
Discusolic  wrote  (View  Post):                
you  are  correct  Epsom  Salt  dose  before    the  Metro  treatment  is  effective                

 Whenever  deworming  medicine  has  completed  its  effect,  there  is  high  possibility  that  worm  getting  dead  &  stuck  outside  fish's  intestinal  way.  These  dead  worms  rot  inside  fish's  body  &  lead  to  bloat  problem  again.  So  what  is  the  use  of  using  bloat-curing  medicine  before  metro  treatment??
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Whenever  deworming  medicine  has  completed  its  effect,  there  is  high  possibility  that  worm  getting  dead  &  stuck  outside  fish's  intestinal  way.  These  dead  worms  rot  inside  fish's  body  &  lead  to  bloat  problem  again.  So  what  is  the  use  of  using  bloat-curing  medicine  before  metro  treatment??                

 
 Epsom  Salt  is  used  before  the  Metro  treatment  to  improve  the  Metro  effect  on  discus  .
 During  Metro  Treatment  with  increased  temp  @32  deg  C  ,  most  flagellates  comes  out  of  the  guts  or  from  scales  as  they  favours  high  temp  .  so  flagellates  will  not  die  in  guts  but  comes  out  .  
 
 Actually  high  temp  and  Metro  only  weakens  the  flagellates  but  will  not  kill  them  ,  Discus  immune  system  is  improved  in  the  process  and  discus  will  start  to  eat  well  .  once  discus  start  eating  well  discus  becomes  strong  .
 
 Thanks
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

                                                   
Discusolic  wrote  (View  Post):                
Epsom  Salt  is  used  before  the  Metro  treatment  to  improve  the  Metro  effect  on  discus  .
 During  Metro  Treatment  with  increased  temp  @32  deg  C  ,  most  flagellates  comes  out  of  the  guts  or  from  scales  as  they  favours  high  temp  .  so  flagellates  will  not  die  in  guts  but  comes  out  .  
 
 Actually  high  temp  and  Metro  only  weakens  the  flagellates  but  will  not  kill  them  ,  Discus  immune  system  is  improved  in  the  process  and  discus  will  start  to  eat  well  .  once  discus  start  eating  well  discus  becomes  strong  .
 
 Thanks                

 I  seldomly  use  Epsom  Salt  and  use  it  only  for  the  purpose  to  cure  bloat  problem.
 Occasionally  I  pickup  discus  from  LFS  &  such  risky  pickups  undergo  strong  Prazi+Metro-booster  treatment  in  my  tank.
 Picked  up  this  local-bred  2"Browns  from  Crawford  Market  last  year  and  only  after  Epsom  Salt  intake,  the  guy  on  the  right  discharged  some  hard-poop  with  suspected  dead  tapeworm  (unfortunately  no  picture  of  it  as  batteries  went  dry  that  time).  This  picture  is  taken  before  the  treatment  in  QT,  also  I  don't  feed  them  during  metro-course.
 
 
 Both  guys  grew  beautifully  later  reaching  close  to  4"+  in  shorter  span.
 But  sorry,  still  not  convinced  with  the  explanation  for  prior-metro  usage  of  Epsom  Salt.  Eyebrow
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vaibhav9322
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:07 am Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

 @  Yogesh  :-  sorry  for  the  trouble  ("again  two  more  question")  ,  you  do  Praziquantel  treatment  ,i  have  read  that  praziquantel   is  not  water  soluble  ("so  how  do  you  dissolve  it  ")   and  2nd  question  ("  is  this  true   hobbyists   use  acetone  to  dissolve  praziquantel.   Dosage  is  10  mg/gallon.   One  dose  is  effective  for  seven  days.   No  water  change  is  done  during  this  time  ")
 
 i  also  would  like  to  suggest  you  though  i  am  not  an  expert  nor  having  experience  as  yours,  but  still  yu  try  epsom  salt  before  metro  treatment  ,,,,,,,i  belive  pretreatment  with  Epsom  salt  will  give  you  good  result
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

                                                   
vaibhav9322  wrote  (View  Post):                
i  have  read  that  praziquantel   is  not  water  soluble  ("so  how  do  you  dissolve  it  ")                

 Prazi  is  available  in  both  liquid  &  powder  form,  powder  to  be  used  with  lukewarm  water  in  a  similar  way  to  Metrogyl  tablet  powder  which  also  refuses  to  mix  with  aquarium  water  directly.
 
 
                                                 
vaibhav9322  wrote  (View  Post):                
 and  2nd  question  ("  is  this  true   hobbyists   use  acetone  to  dissolve  praziquantel.   Dosage  is  10  mg/gallon.   One  dose  is  effective  for  seven  days.   No  water  change  is  done  during  this  time  ")                

 You  can  do  twice  25-30%  water-changes  during  weekly  course  &  re-dose  Prazi  as  per  instructions.  3-week  course  of  Prazi  is  recommended  for  its  effective  usage  &  complete  eradication  of  worms.
 
 
                                                 
vaibhav9322  wrote  (View  Post):                
i  belive  pretreatment  with  Epsom  salt  will  give  you  good  result                

 Metro  does  not  need  any  external  inducers  for  its  effectiveness.  Metro  is  self-effective  under  higher  temperature.
 Dead  eggs,  worms  etc.  can  be  forced  to  discharge  out  of  discus  body  only  after  Prazi/Metro  treatment  by  using  Epsom  Salt.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

 ok  thanks  for  your  suggestion  ,  i  will  try  this  method  during  deflagilating  my  discus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Occasionally  I  pickup  discus  from  LFS  &  such  risky  pickups  undergo  strong  Prazi+Metro-booster  treatment  in  my  tank.
 Picked  up  this  local-bred  2"Browns  from  Crawford  Market  last  year  and  only  after  Epsom  Salt  intake,  the  guy  on  the  right  discharged  some  hard-poop  with  suspected  dead  tapeworm  (unfortunately  no  picture  of  it  as  batteries  went  dry  that  time).  This  picture  is  taken  before  the  treatment  in  QT,  also  I  don't  feed  them  during  metro-course.                

 
 Yogesh  ,  I  think  you  are  mixing  two  treatments  here  ie  Deworming  and  Deflagellating  .  When  we  say  Metro  ,  it  is  essentially  for  deflagellating  .
 
 Praziquantel  is  effective  on  Gill  flukes  ,  body  flukes  and  tapeworms  .So  in  your  case  you  are  talking  about  tapeworms  ie  deworming  .and  not  flagellates  .  
 
 Tapeworms  in  discus  is  very  rare  but  yes  flagells  creates  more  problems  in  discus  hence  one  need  to  deflagellates   discus  regularly   .
 
 Thanks
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Gulls
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

 Thanks  for  such  a  wonderful  guidance..
 We  (I  &  my  friend)  had  never  dewormed  or  deflagellated  our  pets  so  far.
 
 Could  this  be  the  reason  for  the  illness?
 Do  we  deflagellate/  deworm   other  discus  now?
 
 How  do  we  recognise  the  symptoms  early??
 
 Your  answers  would  be  of  great  help  to  us.  Please  guide
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
How  do  we  recognise  the  symptoms  early??                  

 
 Your  observation  is  very  important  in  discus  keeping,  you  should  have  good  eyes  to  see  and  understand  what's  happening  with  your  discus  in  the  tank.  If  all  your  discus  are  consuming  the  food  what  you  feed  them  within  few  minutes  and  droppings  are  dark  in  color  your  discus  are  in  good  health.
 
 If  your  discus  are  not  consuming  their  feed  within  short  time  and  their  droppings  are  not  dark  in  color,  instead  it  is  white  or  creamy  its  indicates  internal  problem  to  your  discus.  This  is  the  start  of  the  problem.  If  you  ignore  this,  someday  you  will  see  that  most  of  the  discus  are  not  eating  well.  So  first  try  to  find  out  the  cause  .  
 
 Some  times  stress  in  discus  is  main  cause  of  all   problems  ,  it  could  be  due  to  bullied  by  dominating  fish  ,   or  dirty  water  or  over  crowding  or  just  improper  discus  keeping  .  when  discus  is  stressed  its  immune  system  is  down  and  during  such  conditions  the  internal  existing  bacteria  or  parasites  will  start  multiplying  fast  and  result  discus  not  eating  well  ,  white  shit  etc  .  
 
 So  best  is  to  provide  stress  free  environment  to  discus  and  don't  wait  discus  to  stop  eating  ,instead  add  metro  in  feed  and  feed  them  for  12  days  every   three  month  .  
 At  this  stage  discus  is  already  eating  ,  so  you  can  even  feed  them  light  dose  @  1  gm  for  1  kg  BHM  .  
 
 
 Thanks
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

                                                   
Discusolic  wrote  (View  Post):                
I  think  you  are  mixing  two  treatments  here  ie  Deworming  and  Deflagellating  .  When  we  say  Metro  ,  it  is  essentially  for  deflagellating  .
 
 Praziquantel  is  effective  on  Gill  flukes  ,  body  flukes  and  tapeworms  .So  in  your  case  you  are  talking  about  tapeworms  ie  deworming  .and  not  flagellates  .  
 
 Tapeworms  in  discus  is  very  rare  but  yes  flagells  creates  more  problems  in  discus  hence  one  need  to  deflagellates   discus  regularly   .
 
 Thanks                

 Shiva,
 
 Be  it  deworming  or  deflagellating,  our  objective  is  to  kill  these  tiny  buggers  causing/could  cause  danger  to  the  health  of  fish.  Frankly  speaking  I  stay  away  from  medicines  if  discus  are  procured  from  good  source  and  exercise  medication  only  if  they  are  sourced  from  LFS.
 
 In  case  of  deflagellating,  if  Metro  is  not  able  to  kill  flagellates  then  why  do  we  use  it  after  all?  IMO  under  higher  temperature,  Metro  does  a  very  good  job  in  killing  these  flagellates  though  we  are  not  sure  about  their  eggs.  If  we  regularly  use  Metro,  these  flagellate/eggs  are  sure  to  develop  resistance  power  and  consequently  this  periodical  metro  treatment  would  just  be  waste  of  time.  
 
 IMO  we  are  regularly  medicating  our  fish,  there  is  something  wrong  with  our  fish's  health  and  moreover  we  are  disturbing  its  immunity  system.
 Hence  I  use  Epsom  Salt  once  &  all  after  the  treatment  (if  done),  to  flush  out  debris  in  its  system  caused  due  to  medical  treatment.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Frankly  speaking  I  stay  away  from  medicines  if  discus  are  procured  from  good  source  and  exercise  medication  only  if  they  are  sourced  from  LFS.                  

 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Be  it  deworming  or  deflagellating,  our  objective  is  to  kill  these  tiny  buggers  causing/could  cause  danger  to  the  health  of  fish.                  

 
 Correct   ,  our  objective  is  to  remove  these  tiny  buggers  from  fish  system  ,which  cause  /  could  cause  danger  to  the  health  of  fish  ,  even  though  it  may  have  procured  from  good  source  .  
 
 Will  you   skip  Quarantine  process  if  you  procure  discus  from  good  source?
 
 
 Thanks
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

 HI  all
 Arranged  for  a  pic  of  the  sick  fella.
 Red  melon   (not  red  anymore   Crying or Very sad  )
 
 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

 Shocked   Shocked   Shocked   Shocked  
 
 THATS  RED  MELON....  WHAT  DID  YOU  FEED  IT  BOY?
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adesh8028
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

 he  looks  stunted  to  me
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Urgent help for a friend- Discus Unwell Reply with quote

 Hi  all
 
 He  is  likely  to  be  stunted..  has  been  in  a  hospital  tank  for  some  time  now....
 This  poor  guy  has  not  been  eating  for  the  past  whole  week  (maybe  10  odd  days  now).
 His  condition  is  getting  worse  day  by  day...
 
 Fortunately,  for  the  last  couple  of  days,  the  detoriation  pace  reduced  and  no  poop   visible  now.
 But  the  problem  is,  it  is  still  not  accepting  food...
 
 We  are  in  a  fix  now...  Whether  to  continue  the  same  treatment  in  the  hospital  tank?
 or  re-transfer  it  to  the  display  tank  with  other  mates  (discus)  and  try  if  it  gets  comfortable  as  before  in  the  same  school?
 
 Can  we,  at  such  a  point,  try  feeding  it  some  meaty  food  [GHM]  (we  have  not  done  so,  so  far)?
 
 Please  help...
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