Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?
Hi, this is the fishkeeper formerly known as Pudgemo. Moved across the States, lost some time growing the F1 baby goats, also lost my IAH reg/pwd info & old email account, so starting over.
I was wondering how the canas are doing in the wild? I've searched through the forums, looks like people have collected some juveniles in the wild, so it's good to see there must be some still around! Getting any real info here about such things can be a spotty, at best. How are the rivers, development/pollution-wise? From the fish trip pix, looks like you have some lovely areas.
My original 9 continue to spawn regularly, & eat the eggs on evening of Day 3 just as regularly, so still pulling eggs when I want babies. I've gotten rid of pretty much all other types of fish to give room to all the F1s, which are at spawning size, but unfortunately still on the other side of the USA as I'm having trouble getting the 'babysitter' to ship them to me. Nerve-racking, to say the least!
Any updates on these wonderful fish in the wild or spawning in captivity --if somebody has F2s, or how to keep 'em from eating their eggs & going back to play with their friends-- would be really appreciated!
btw Ravi, very sorry if I messed up your name....
Joined: Jun 23, 2008 Posts: 1212 Location: 12° 18' 26” N 76° 38' 59'' E
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?
Your article is nicely written (except mistakes in names and geography maybe). I was near the place where these were found few years back. Couldnt spot any as I could spend just around 20 minutes near the river. But I dont think there has been any major changes in their habitat. They are not very sought after fish, so maybe that has saved them till now. Think others who have been to the place for fishing might be able to give a better picture.
Hope they dont go the way P denisonii did.
One more reason might be that some parts of Kumaradhara are off limits for fishing due to religious reasons rather than legal fishing bans.
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?
All I can say is, oops. Any necessary corrections would be greatly appreciated.
In a way I am glad they're not very sought after, for the very example P denisonii provides. On the other hand, I have long been a supporter of captive breeding of endangered species & it's tough to do when no more than about 6 people on the North American continent could be bothered to devote the time & space necessary for maintaining the little delights. I'm extremely glad that fishing is limited in parts of the Kumaradhara, for whatever reason. Long may that continue. Captive breeding is good, but keeping them in their native habitat is best of all. Outstanding!
Speaking of captive breeding of end. spp, I was just looking at the National Geographic April 2010 article about native North American fishes being maintained in a facility in Tennessee, US (not far from where I now am in North Carolina). It mentions that in 1957 the National Park Service poisoned all the little native "baitfish" before introducing trout for sportfishing...they didn't want the trout to have to compete. Argh. Hopefully that sort of idiocy is done. There are some gorgeous little darters, dace, etc here in the rivers & streams of the Southeast, but none have quite the charm or character of the canarensis.
Joined: Jun 29, 2003 Posts: 7087 Location: Bengaluru, India
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?
What I know is, there are less and less E canarensis being caught for export. It's probably due to the fad having worn off,
as soon as you managed to tank breed them. Later on a few others reported success, and the documented pictures of the eggs and fry from
day one, dampened people's enthusiasm to keep and breed them.
The challenge to be the first evaporated.
I see very little E canarensis being stocked prior export which is a good sign.
I haven't been to the biotope for a long time, whereas trevor, nayak, beta and a few others have been there less than a year ago,
and collected a few E canarensis. I guess the fish are doing as good as they were in the wild.
There are plenty of captive raised fish available, from farms in India
Dont think so, really.
Am still very sure that they are being collected by unknown agents. Sometime back, twice actually, I came across export surplus stock on offer. Sure, the south east captive bred ones should have made a large impact on the wild collections, as in the past.
I have lost my entire batch overnight due to a mystery disease. So has Prasoon and so had Beta, with a partial lot in the past. A very heart breaking thing to witness.
Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?
It is very difficult to type from under my desk, which is the appropriate place for me to be after looking at a couple of maps online. I have no idea how I goofed up --I did attempt to be accurate, I swear. I can't find a link to the Cichlid News article online either, and the final hard copy & all my original sources are in a box somewhere (ah, moving!). I did find a ddraft on the old computer, & assume the boneheaded mistakes on it are the ones referred to. I'll come up with a way to access the whole thing online or post it myself, so the whole thing can be corrected. I'm not sure what copyright issues may be involved....? I'll check with Ad Konings.
Speaking of mistakes, I note that Fishbase has a few problems as well; it claims E canarensis aren't IUCN listed; the 2010 Redlist version lists them as "Endangered." Fishbase also calls them amphidromous, meaning they move from fresh to salt water & back, not for breeding (I looked it up). That applies to the other two Etroplines, but not these guys.
I'm very, very sorry to hear about the sudden mystery deaths. I nearly lost all mine one evening a couple years ago, but it turned out to be poisonously old Praziquantel. Massive water changes until 4 am saved most of the babies, but it was heartbreaking losing any. I learned the hard way never to use medicine past its expiration date (tho' I still will take it myself....). I still get sick to my stomach when I think of those little corpses.
I hope the demand stays low so wholesale collecting doesn't happen to the wild stocks. Delightful as they are, I suppose they're not colorful enough to really catch on as popular community fish to go with brightly colored gouramis and such, so thankfully they probably won't go the way of the denisonii.
i've got my 8 foot tank in my bedroom (the 5 footers are in the fish room), sumps & filters running, soft sand & rocks growing awfuchs, just beautiful.....all it needs is fish! I want my baby goats!
What about parental fry raising? Anyone succeed in that? I'm fitting the 8' tank with drop-in dividers & rocks in clusters in hopes that I can block off a spawning pair with an 'egg-crate' blockade that will separate them from their pals, see if that will convince them to raise the babies. Keep the pair in 1/3 of the tank, the others get the rest. The parents have dug pits during the 2nd & 3rd days of guarding the eggs, like some other cichlids, so I'm assuming they'll move the babies from pit to pit at nights....if they'll ever not eat the eggs.
Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?
by the way, I ran across a recipe on a blog for "Karimeen (Pearl Spot) Masala." It says "Karimeen, aka Pearl Spot is one of the most famous fish from Kerala." There is a picture of an (almost) whole fish, cooked in a sort of pale brownish-yellow masala-looking sauce with maybe some onions &/or other veg. Looked quite yummy, but....the shape of the fish looked awfully familiar.
I looked at the map, so I know Kerala is the district south of Karnataka, so I''m thinkin it's maybe one of the other Chromides --Green probably? Gave me quite a start when I saw it!
Joined: Jun 23, 2008 Posts: 1212 Location: 12° 18' 26” N 76° 38' 59'' E
Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?
Canarensis is not found in Kerala as far as I know. Kerala is a state south of Karnataka. Think all chromides are consumed as food around their respective locations.
Kelly (Im not sure if its your first name), You should plan for a trip. If you stay for few days here and explore couple of rivers, you will get a better idea of things. There have been atleast couple of discussions about state of EC in the wild. Im not able to find those.
Last edited by random2 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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