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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?
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status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity?

 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 Hi,  this  is  the  fishkeeper  formerly  known  as  Pudgemo.   Moved  across  the  States,  lost  some  time  growing  the  F1  baby  goats,  also  lost  my  IAH  reg/pwd  info  &  old  email  account,  so  starting  over.   
 
 I  was  wondering  how  the  canas  are  doing  in  the  wild?   I've  searched  through  the  forums,  looks  like  people  have  collected  some  juveniles  in  the  wild,  so  it's  good  to  see  there  must  be  some  still  around!   Getting  any  real  info  here  about  such  things  can  be  a  spotty,  at  best.   How  are  the  rivers,  development/pollution-wise?   From  the  fish  trip  pix,  looks  like  you  have  some  lovely  areas.
 
 My  original  9  continue  to  spawn  regularly,  &  eat  the  eggs  on  evening  of  Day  3  just  as  regularly,  so  still  pulling  eggs  when  I  want  babies.   I've  gotten  rid  of  pretty  much  all  other  types  of  fish  to  give  room  to  all  the  F1s,  which  are  at  spawning  size,  but  unfortunately  still  on  the  other  side  of  the  USA  as  I'm  having  trouble  getting  the  'babysitter'  to  ship  them  to  me.  Nerve-racking,  to  say  the  least!
 
 Any  updates  on  these  wonderful  fish  in  the  wild  or  spawning  in  captivity  --if  somebody  has  F2s,  or  how  to  keep  'em  from  eating  their  eggs  &  going  back  to  play  with  their  friends--  would  be  really  appreciated!
 
 btw  Ravi,  very  sorry  if  I  messed  up  your  name....
 kelly
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 Your  article  is  nicely  written  (except  mistakes  in  names  and  geography  maybe).  I  was  near  the  place  where  these  were  found  few  years  back.  Couldnt  spot  any  as  I  could  spend  just  around  20  minutes  near  the  river.  But  I  dont  think  there  has  been  any  major  changes  in  their  habitat.  They  are  not  very  sought  after  fish,  so  maybe  that  has  saved  them  till  now.  Think  others  who  have  been  to  the  place  for  fishing  might  be  able  to  give  a  better  picture.
 
 Hope  they  dont  go  the  way  P  denisonii  did.
 
 One  more  reason  might  be  that  some  parts  of  Kumaradhara  are  off  limits  for  fishing  due  to  religious  reasons  rather  than  legal  fishing  bans.
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maxlet
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 All  I  can  say  is,  oops.   Any  necessary  corrections  would  be  greatly  appreciated.   
 
 In  a  way  I  am  glad  they're  not  very  sought  after,  for  the  very  example  P  denisonii  provides.   On  the  other  hand,  I  have  long  been  a  supporter  of  captive  breeding  of  endangered  species  &  it's  tough  to  do  when  no  more  than  about  6  people  on  the  North  American  continent  could  be  bothered  to  devote  the  time  &  space  necessary  for  maintaining  the  little  delights.   I'm  extremely  glad  that  fishing  is  limited  in  parts  of  the  Kumaradhara,  for  whatever  reason.   Long  may  that  continue.   Captive  breeding  is  good,  but  keeping  them  in  their  native  habitat  is  best  of  all.   Outstanding!
 
 Speaking  of  captive  breeding  of  end.  spp,  I  was  just  looking  at  the  National  Geographic  April  2010  article  about  native  North  American  fishes  being  maintained  in  a  facility  in  Tennessee,  US  (not  far  from  where  I  now  am  in  North  Carolina).   It  mentions  that  in  1957  the  National  Park  Service  poisoned  all  the  little  native  "baitfish"  before  introducing  trout  for  sportfishing...they  didn't  want  the  trout  to  have  to  compete.   Argh.   Hopefully  that  sort  of  idiocy  is  done.   There  are  some  gorgeous  little  darters,  dace,  etc  here  in  the  rivers  &  streams  of  the  Southeast,  but  none  have  quite  the  charm  or  character  of  the  canarensis.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:51 am Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 The  link  ->  http://cichlidnews.com/issues/2009jan/etroplus.html  is  dead.  
 Please  let  me  know  if  its  available  online  any  other  place.  Will  go  through  and  post  back  corrections.
 
 It  was  discussed  in  2  threads  earlier  -
 http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=14672&highlight=etroplus+canarensis
 http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=12665&highlight=etroplus+canarensis
 
 Edit:  Think  one  of  the  threads  was  started  by  you.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 Hello  kelly,
 
 What  I  know  is,  there  are  less  and  less  E  canarensis  being  caught  for  export.  It's  probably  due  to  the  fad  having  worn  off,
 as  soon  as  you  managed  to  tank  breed  them.  Later  on  a  few  others  reported  success,  and  the  documented  pictures  of  the  eggs  and  fry  from
 day  one,  dampened  people's  enthusiasm  to  keep  and  breed  them.
 
 The  challenge  to  be  the  first  evaporated.   Very Happy  
 
 I  see  very  little  E  canarensis  being  stocked  prior  export  which  is  a  good  sign.
 
 I  haven't  been  to  the  biotope  for  a  long  time,  whereas  trevor,  nayak,  beta  and  a  few  others  have  been  there  less  than  a  year  ago,
 and  collected  a  few  E  canarensis.  I  guess  the  fish  are  doing  as  good  as  they  were  in  the  wild.
 
 Let's  wait  for  these  guys  to  chip  in.
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 They're  doing  quite  well  in  the  wild,  IMO.  Their  range  is  wider  than  previously  thought  and,  as  Madan  posted,  they  do  not  seem  to  be  collected  in  quite  as  many  numbers  as  they  were  before.
 
 There  are  plenty  of  captive  raised  fish  available,  from  farms  in  India  and  Indonesia.
 
 I'd  emailed  Ron  about  the  corrections  in  the  article,  not  sure  if  they've  been  incorporated.
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

                                                   
retro_gk  wrote  (View  Post):                
There  are  plenty  of  captive  raised  fish  available,  from  farms  in  India                  

 
 Dont  think  so,  really.  
 
 Am  still  very  sure  that  they  are  being  collected  by  unknown  agents.  Sometime  back,  twice  actually,  I  came  across  export  surplus  stock  on  offer.  Sure,  the  south  east  captive  bred  ones  should  have  made  a  large  impact  on  the  wild  collections,  as  in  the  past.
 
 I  have  lost  my  entire  batch  overnight  due  to  a  mystery  disease.  So  has  Prasoon  and  so  had  Beta,  with  a  partial  lot  in  the  past.  A  very  heart  breaking  thing  to  witness.
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maxlet
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 It  is  very  difficult  to  type  from  under  my  desk,  which  is  the  appropriate  place  for  me  to  be  after  looking  at  a  couple  of  maps  online.   I  have  no  idea  how  I  goofed  up  --I  did  attempt  to  be  accurate,  I  swear.  I  can't  find  a  link  to  the  Cichlid  News  article  online  either,  and  the  final  hard  copy  &  all  my  original  sources  are  in  a  box  somewhere  (ah,  moving!).  I  did  find  a  ddraft  on  the  old  computer,  &  assume  the  boneheaded  mistakes  on  it  are  the  ones  referred  to.   I'll  come  up  with  a  way  to  access  the  whole  thing  online  or  post  it  myself,  so  the  whole  thing  can  be  corrected.  I'm  not  sure  what  copyright  issues  may  be  involved....?   I'll  check  with  Ad  Konings.
 
 Speaking  of  mistakes,  I  note  that  Fishbase  has  a  few  problems  as  well;  it  claims  E  canarensis  aren't  IUCN  listed;  the  2010  Redlist  version  lists  them  as  "Endangered."   Fishbase  also  calls  them  amphidromous,  meaning  they  move  from  fresh  to  salt  water  &  back,  not  for  breeding  (I  looked  it  up).   That  applies  to  the  other  two  Etroplines,  but  not  these  guys.   
 
 I'm  very,  very  sorry  to  hear  about  the  sudden  mystery  deaths.   I  nearly  lost  all  mine  one  evening  a  couple  years  ago,  but  it  turned  out  to  be  poisonously  old  Praziquantel.   Massive  water  changes  until  4  am  saved  most  of  the  babies,  but  it  was  heartbreaking  losing  any.   I  learned  the  hard  way  never  to  use  medicine  past  its  expiration  date  (tho'  I  still  will  take  it  myself....).   I  still  get  sick  to  my  stomach  when  I  think  of  those  little  corpses.
 
 I  hope  the  demand  stays  low  so  wholesale  collecting  doesn't  happen  to  the  wild  stocks.  Delightful  as  they  are,  I  suppose  they're  not  colorful  enough  to  really  catch  on  as  popular  community  fish  to  go  with  brightly  colored  gouramis  and  such,  so  thankfully  they  probably  won't  go  the  way  of  the  denisonii.  
 
   i've  got  my  8  foot  tank  in  my  bedroom  (the  5  footers  are  in  the  fish  room),  sumps  &  filters  running,  soft  sand  &  rocks  growing  awfuchs,  just  beautiful.....all  it  needs  is  fish!   I  want  my  baby  goats!   
 
 What  about  parental  fry  raising?   Anyone  succeed  in  that?   I'm  fitting  the  8'  tank  with  drop-in  dividers  &  rocks  in  clusters  in  hopes  that  I  can  block  off  a  spawning  pair  with  an  'egg-crate'  blockade  that  will  separate  them  from  their  pals,  see  if  that  will  convince  them  to  raise  the  babies.   Keep  the  pair  in  1/3  of  the  tank,  the  others  get  the  rest.  The  parents  have  dug  pits  during  the  2nd  &  3rd  days  of  guarding  the  eggs,  like  some  other  cichlids,  so  I'm  assuming  they'll  move  the  babies  from  pit  to  pit  at  nights....if  they'll  ever  not  eat  the  eggs.
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 I'd  darken  the  tank  when  they're  spawning.  Lights  seem  to  spook  them.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 by  the  way,  I  ran  across  a  recipe  on  a  blog  for  "Karimeen  (Pearl  Spot)  Masala."   It  says  "Karimeen,  aka  Pearl  Spot  is  one  of  the  most  famous  fish  from  Kerala."   There  is  a  picture  of  an  (almost)  whole  fish,  cooked  in  a  sort  of  pale  brownish-yellow  masala-looking  sauce  with  maybe  some  onions  &/or  other  veg.   Looked  quite  yummy,  but....the  shape  of  the  fish  looked  awfully  familiar.
 
 I  looked  at  the  map,  so  I  know  Kerala  is  the  district  south  of  Karnataka,  so  I''m  thinkin  it's  maybe  one  of  the  other  Chromides  --Green  probably?   Gave  me  quite  a  start  when  I  saw  it!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 Canarensis  is  not  found  in  Kerala  as  far  as  I  know.  Kerala  is  a  state  south  of  Karnataka.  Think  all  chromides  are  consumed  as  food  around  their  respective  locations.
 
 Kelly  (Im  not  sure  if  its  your  first  name),  You  should  plan  for  a  trip.  If  you  stay  for  few  days  here  and  explore  couple  of  rivers,  you  will  get  a  better  idea  of  things.  There  have  been  atleast  couple  of  discussions  about  state  of  EC  in  the  wild.  Im  not  able  to  find  those.


Last edited by random2 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

                                                   
maxlet  wrote  (View  Post):                
so  I''m  thinkin  it's  maybe  one  of  the  other  Chromides  --Green  probably?   Gave  me  quite  a  start  when  I  saw  it!                

 Here's  pic  of  Chromide/Banded  Pearlspot  for  your  reference.
 Now  it  can  be  found  near  Mumbai  too.  Smile  
 


Last edited by Yogesh on Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 Karimeen  is  E.  suratensis  Quite  delicious,  if  you  know  how  to  handle  fish  with  fine  bones.
 
 Yogesh,  that  is  E.  maculatus.
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

                                                   
retro_gk  wrote  (View  Post):                
Karimeen  is  E.  suratensis  Quite  delicious,  if  you  know  how  to  handle  fish  with  fine  bones.
 
 Yogesh,  that  is  E.  maculatus.                

 Thanks  for  correcting,  buddy.  Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: status of Etroplus canarensis in wild? & captivity? Reply with quote

 maxlet  :  The  Karimeen  is  the  E.suratensis  (green  Chromide)  ...Indeed  a  delicacy  in  Kerala...
 
 Yogesh:  your  fish  is  the  E.maculatus  (orange  Chromide)
 
 I  have  collected  the  E.canaraensis  a  year  back  from  the  wild.  have  3  currently  with  one  jumping  out  unfortunately.  Hope  I  have  luck  with  the  other  3
 
 http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=15672&highlight=canarensis
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