Joined: Dec 19, 2005 Posts: 2753 Location: Surat, Gujarat
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: Poor man's reef
Guys I happened to come across a site check it out!
http://www.mindspear.com/reef/index.htm
Requesting all fellow aquarists to contribute to the topic and help fellow reefers to bring the operating costs of a reef in the affordable range.
Please contribute your ideas
Joined: Jan 24, 2005 Posts: 200 Location: Chembur, Mumbai
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject:
Aqua, when you say Reed what do you exactly mean because as you know in India Corals are banned (that is why chillers are expensive nobody buys them and demand being low it is expensive) hence the closest you can get is a tank with LR's.
Joined: Dec 19, 2005 Posts: 2753 Location: Surat, Gujarat
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject:
rajeev wrote:
Aqua, when you say Reed what do you exactly mean because as you know in India Corals are banned (that is why chillers are expensive nobody buys them and demand being low it is expensive) hence the closest you can get is a tank with LR's.
Thank God someone atleast acknowledged the thread -
well dear Sir,
A reef is not just live corals - it is a whole world of small invertibrates and colonies of even algae (the coralline one) can be a treat to watch - purple, red, and you name the color a reef will have it - yes there are different views in how to mantain a healthy reef - economically!
that is what I want people to realise that a reef is not just corals even live rocks can be a treat to keep and best of all - it helps in controlling the high nitrites and nitrates (more on this later)
first things first!
Talking about live rocks - any rock with some algae formation on it is branded as live rock - But, for me a live rock should have colonies of different life forms, sponges, algae, polyps, etc. I'm sure most of you register the term live rock as something that is forcefully broken from the natural reef structure and traded for the hobby - wrong - I don't support such trade!
Imagine the typical tropical reef with warm waters and where the apex structure of the reef is exposed to the atmosphere during the low tides and top of all that it has to even bear the harsh storms. This natural process is responsible most of the time for the ever-changing geography of the reef and also for the old corals to die and new ones to start colonising and in the event part of the reef structure breaks loose - such a phenomenon leaves behind a lot of blocks of the reef structure which is so rich in calcium carbonate.
Due to the harsh water movements(ocean currents) and the action of burrowing invertibrates it becomes porous and is often very light in weight - this type of a porous rock or block of the reef structure becomes a heaven for coralline algae, small burrowing inverts, soft polyps etc. to colonise on! - such rocks being light in weight are often washed off-shore and is a feast for the birds and larger inverts like crabs - eventually it dries off and crumbles into the so called coral sand and if it is a large piece it might be just useful to someone for even construction purpose! These rocks if collected at the right time and right place can be the most desirable ones as most of the life on the rock is still 'live' and can be restored back to normal in the controlled environment of the tank
'phew' this must be my longest answer till now
tell me if you are clear with the concept of a live rock?
regards,
aquascapes
more on this later - but keep your posts going
Joined: Dec 19, 2005 Posts: 2753 Location: Surat, Gujarat
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject:
rajeev wrote:
Aqua, when you say Reed what do you exactly mean because as you know in India Corals are banned (that is why chillers are expensive nobody buys them and demand being low it is expensive) hence the closest you can get is a tank with LR's.
Dear Sir,
Chillers are not just useful in a reef - It is also of immense help for a well planted aquaria and if I register your question properly it's price has nothing to do with the on corals.
You can start culturing coralline algae on your rocks and add a few inverts to it - it can be branded as a reef - I don't have a single coral in my tank which is illegal and can still call my aquaria a reef!
please clear all mis-conceptions from your mind and if in doubt feel free to write back.
regards,
aquascapes
Joined: May 24, 2005 Posts: 237 Location: Pondicherry
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject:
Now theres an idea, a reef without live corals,hmmm.. Reeeaaalllly interesting. You've really got me thinking here buddy. I put my puny little brain to work (its about time!! ) and tried to come up with a list of inverts that you can keep in a reef tank without live corals. Turns out we actually have a very decent sized list of marine organisms . So here you have some sessile inverts and sessile organisms that I could think of.. I am sure there could be more.
1. Anemones
2. Sea mats or zooanthid polyps(these were legal last time I checked with a LFS)
3. Clams
4. Tube worms
5. Macro algae (some of these are so cool looking that you'd scoff at corals)!!
6. Sponges
And these are mobile inverts that you can keep as well
And finally combined with fish, this provides a very good variety of marine creatures(woohooo !!!). But believe me guys, you dont even have to go in for these. As aquascapes pointed out just live rock covered with various coloured coralline algae itself is enough to provide a breathtaking view.
Joined: Jan 09, 2006 Posts: 103 Location: Navi Mumbai
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject:
aquascapes wrote:
it can be branded as a reef - I don't have a single coral in my tank which is illegal and can still call my aquaria a reef!
please clear all mis-conceptions from your mind and if in doubt feel free to write back.
regards,
aquascapes
could you please explain that...." I don't have a single coral in my tank which is illegal" does that mean you have some other home grown coral??? is that possible??
im planning to setup a 6x2x2 marine aquarium in about a month so im gathering all the information possible....is crushed coral and coral sand the same thing??
Joined: May 24, 2005 Posts: 237 Location: Pondicherry
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject:
I think what he is saying is, even though he doesn't have corals in his tank, he can still call his tank as a reef tank because he has live rock and other invertebrates. So he doesn't have aquascapes doesn't have corals inhis tank.
Joined: Jan 09, 2006 Posts: 103 Location: Navi Mumbai
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:42 am Post subject:
Cichlidmaniac wrote:
I think what he is saying is, even though he doesn't have corals in his tank, he can still call his tank as a reef tank because he has live rock and other invertebrates. So he doesn't have aquascapes doesn't have corals inhis tank.
are live rocks also disappearing from the market???? because a i visited crawford market yesterday n the guy told me he hasnt recieved any new live rocks since 6 months.....n can anyone pls give me an estimate n can you also list the equipment with approx cost.....i asked the dealer to set it up n he gave me an estimate of 30g which i think is almost double of what it should be.....i think i posted this in the wrong thread...
Joined: Jul 09, 2003 Posts: 3493 Location: Trivandrum, Kerala
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:24 am Post subject:
Aquascapes, I have to disagree with you a bit here...
Live rock, as used in marine aquaria, is primarily a means to regulate waste buildup - by the anaerobic reduction of nitrates to nitrogen. And as such, the most valuable part of live rock, the part that makes it "live" are the bacterial colonies within. Everything else colonising the rock is a bonus as such.
As to reef, what you've described is a rocky reef while the reef in the hobby refers to, IMO, a coral reef, with hard or soft corals. While no less beautiful, it is, IMO, a tad incorrect to call a rocky reef a true reef.
Joined: Jan 24, 2005 Posts: 200 Location: Chembur, Mumbai
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject:
I agree and disagree with Aqua. A tank with only LR is called a "Wannabe Reef" but not a reef. Aqua do u think it is possible for you to send across a coralline culture so that I can seed my tank since my tank does have a few pieces of LR and base rock and now most of the rocks are covered with red algae. I would love to have some coralline in my tank
Joined: Jan 09, 2006 Posts: 103 Location: Navi Mumbai
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject:
rajeev wrote:
I agree and disagree with Aqua. A tank with only LR is called a "Wannabe Reef" but not a reef. Aqua do u think it is possible for you to send across a coralline culture so that I can seed my tank since my tank does have a few pieces of LR and base rock and now most of the rocks are covered with red algae. I would love to have some coralline in my tank
incase i manage to get hold of a live rock......how do i seed(if thats the correct term) a zooanthid polyp in it??? can anything similar be done which is legal??? what abt sponge??? i hope thats legal atleast....
Joined: Jan 24, 2005 Posts: 200 Location: Chembur, Mumbai
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject:
DM,
I do not think you can seed your LR with Polyps or others normally when you buy the LR all these and many more organisms come long. Most of these die that is why an uncured LR smells like rotten eggs (ammonia), once you get the LR you need to cure it by first removing dead, dying and decaying matter and then put them in a tank and keep a lot of water movement and also keep the skimmer running. Once the LR is cured it can go into your display tank and whatever organism that did not die will flourish and so will the coralline alage. now you need to supplement the tank with Calcium etc to keep the coralline growth, growing.
Joined: Dec 19, 2005 Posts: 2753 Location: Surat, Gujarat
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:
retro_gk wrote:
Aquascapes, I have to disagree with you a bit here...
Live rock, as used in marine aquaria, is primarily a means to regulate waste buildup - by the anaerobic reduction of nitrates to nitrogen. And as such, the most valuable part of live rock, the part that makes it "live" are the bacterial colonies within. Everything else colonising the rock is a bonus as such.
As to reef, what you've described is a rocky reef while the reef in the hobby refers to, IMO, a coral reef, with hard or soft corals. While no less beautiful, it is, IMO, a tad incorrect to call a rocky reef a true reef.
Yes retro I agree with you but a reef is a reef! for me the bonus is the reduction of nitrates as today we have an arrey of gadgets which are used to reduce nitrites and nitrates in the tank and having live rocks for reducing the nitrates is not what I would do - My thread here is on having a reef - may it be rocky or coral it should be economical and affordable - when we have a live rock which acts as a de-nitrator and has some polyps on it will do some good to the asthetic value of the tank and your pocket as well 'cause you are saving money on the fancy gadgets.
aquascapes
could you please explain that...." I don't have a single coral in my tank which is illegal" does that mean you have some other home grown coral??? is that possible??
im planning to setup a 6x2x2 marine aquarium in about a month so im gathering all the information possible....is crushed coral and coral sand the same thing??
No sir, you can't grow coral unless you have it taken from the reef! - Yes you can multiply them but the parent coral comes from mother Nature.
No, coral sand is found naturally and crushed coral is the pieces of dead coral crushed by force to either fill your calcium reactor or use as a bed - natural coral sand will be smooth and rounded grain whereas crushed coral will be sharp edged and coarse (if not treated)
incase i manage to get hold of a live rock......how do i seed(if thats the correct term) a zooanthid polyp in it??? can anything similar be done which is legal??? what abt sponge??? i hope thats legal atleast....
sponges normally don't last long on the rocks as most of the live rock is packed in the wrong manner and once the sponge is exposed to air for sometime it is doomed!
I'm in the process of writing a long answer on seeding a live rock so hold your breath!
put them in a tank and keep a lot of water movement and also keep the skimmer running.
you will be amazed to know that even if you don't have any fish in the tank and even if you don't put a single flake or pellet in the tank as food - your skimmer will keep on getting filled - just by the live rock's waste!
and the water movement is necessary for making sure that the nutrients in the water are carried to the live matter on the rocks and inside the rocks!
Last edited by aquascapes on Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:26 pm; edited 4 times in total
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on corals.
(its about time!! 
. So here you have some sessile inverts and sessile organisms that I could think of.. I am sure there could be more.
!!!). But believe me guys, you dont even have to go in for these. As aquascapes pointed out just live rock covered with various coloured coralline algae itself is enough to provide a breathtaking view.
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