Home
Home
Forums
Forums
Downloads
Downloads
Account
Account
Advertise on IAH
Main Menu   
 
HomeHome  
    Home
Community  
    Forums
    FAQ
    Content
    Gallery
    Reviews
    Surveys
    Topics
Members  
    Private Messages
    Your Account
    Profile
    Members List
Statistics  
    Statistics
Files & Links  
    Downloads
    Web Links
News  
    News
    Submit News
Other  
    Advertising
    Shout Box
    Site Map
    Recommend Us
    Feedback
    Legal Notices


User Info   
 
Good morning 
Anonymous



Register
Lost Password
Username
Password

 Online:   
Member(s):
01Narayanang76

Guest(s):
02. Guest
03. Guest
04. Guest
05. Guest
06. Guest
07. Guest
08. Guest
09. Guest
10. Guest
11. Guest
12. Guest
13. Guest
14. Guest
15. Guest
16. Guest
17. Guest
18. Guest
19. Guest
20. Guest
21. Guest
22. Guest
23. Guest
24. Guest
25. Guest
26. Guest
27. Guest
28. Guest
29. Guest
30. Guest
31. Guest
32. Guest
33. Guest
34. Guest
35. Guest
36. Guest
37. Guest
38. Guest
39. Guest
40. Guest
41. Guest
42. Guest
43. Guest
44. Guest
45. Guest
46. Guest
47. Guest
48. Guest
49. Guest
50. Guest
51. Guest
52. Guest
53. Guest
54. Guest
55. Guest
56. Guest
57. Guest
58. Guest
59. Guest
60. Guest
61. Guest
62. Guest
63. Guest
64. Guest
65. Guest
66. Guest
67. Guest
68. Guest
69. Guest
70. Guest
71. Guest
72. Guest
73. Guest
74. Guest
75. Guest
76. Guest
77. Guest
78. Guest
79. Guest
80. Guest
81. Guest
82. Guest
83. Guest
84. Guest
85. Guest
86. Guest
87. Guest
88. Guest
89. Guest
90. Guest
91. Guest
92. Guest
93. Guest
94. Guest
95. Guest
96. Guest
97. Guest
98. Guest
99. Guest
100. Guest
101. Guest
102. Guest
103. Guest
104. Guest
105. Guest
106. Guest
107. Guest
108. Guest
109. Guest
110. Guest
111. Guest
112. Guest
113. Guest
114. Guest
115. Guest
116. Guest
117. Guest
118. Guest
119. Guest
120. Guest
121. Guest
122. Guest
123. Guest
124. Guest
125. Guest
126. Guest
127. Guest
128. Guest
129. Guest
130. Guest
131. Guest
132. Guest
133. Guest
134. Guest
135. Guest
136. Guest
137. Guest
138. Guest
139. Guest
140. Guest
141. Guest
142. Guest
143. Guest
144. Guest
145. Guest
146. Guest
147. Guest
148. Guest
149. Guest
150. Guest
151. Guest
152. Guest
153. Guest
154. Guest
155. Guest
156. Guest
157. Guest
158. Guest
159. Guest
160. Guest
161. Guest
162. Guest
163. Guest
164. Guest
165. Guest
166. Guest
167. Guest
168. Guest
169. Guest
170. Guest
171. Guest
172. Guest
173. Guest
174. Guest
175. Guest
176. Guest
177. Guest
178. Guest
179. Guest
180. Guest
181. Guest
182. Guest
183. Guest
184. Guest
185. Guest
186. Guest
187. Guest
188. Guest
189. Guest
190. Guest
191. Guest
192. Guest
193. Guest
194. Guest
195. Guest
196. Guest
197. Guest
198. Guest
199. Guest
200. Guest
201. Guest
202. Guest
203. Guest

Most Ever Online:   
 Guest(s): 464
 Member(s): 16
 Total: 480

Forums Forums:   
 Posts: 340,007
 Topics: 30,803




http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!!!!!!
Forum Index  |  Search  |  Usergroups  |  Edit your profile  |  Members  |  Log in to check your private messages
Ranks  |  Staff  |  Statistics  |  Board Rules  |  Forum FAQ  |  Log in



what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!!!!!!
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ Forum Index -> Lighting for Planted Aquaria
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Severumkid
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 3012
Location: Hyderabad

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 Hmmm  this  is  good  now  that  we  are  pinpointing  towards  certain  brands  and  models.  Life  becomes  easy  for  the  lesser  mortals,  who  just  want  to  know  what  is  good  to  use  and  will  give  them  their  moneys  worth  or  more  perhaps.  Question  remains  that  whether  these  brands  are  available  here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
sunracesuraj
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Posts: 228
Location: Gorai 2, Borivali West, Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 Hydor  makes  illumination  LEDs  which  are  generic  to  make  tanks  look  GOOD.  I  have  not  come  across  any  tech  which  can  certify  that  take  our  LED,  MH,  PL,  FL,  HID,  HO,  VHO,  SHO  and  what  not  and  it  is  100%  going  to  grow  any  plant  on  earth  that  too  forever  without  any  algae  problems  or  fertilisers  or  additions  -  if  that  does  not  happen  then  we  will  return  your  money  as  they  will  always  put  "*"  saying  that  there  are  many  dependencies  -  where  ever  such  "*"  comes  it  means  it  is  beyond  grasp  of  human  knowledge  or  a  grey  area  which  we  are  not  sure  of  -  that  is  where  we  have  to  experiment  and  take  risk  with  our  time,  money  and  all  the  resources  we  put  in.  No  one  actually  knows  how  do  plants  use  the  light  exactly  and  what  goes  on  in  the  thing  called  photosynthesis  -  many  love  to  claim  that  yeah  they  know  it  but  as  usual  it  is  always  just  a  charting  done  based  on  the  knowledge  available  on  that  date  -  which  is  always  out  dated  after  few  years  and  new  claims  are  made  with  new  discoveries.  So  yeah  it  is  all  about  experimenting.  Algae  is  natural  occurrence  -  in  nature  it  is  welcome  as  most  of  them  are  plants,  it  is  unwelcome  in  our  tanks  because  we  want  clean  tank,  nature  has  no  desire  for  CLEAN  tanks..in  nature  everything  is  welcome  and  part  of  the  system...and  in  tanks  we  are  fighting  against  that  very  system,  to  make  a  perfect  tank  with  nothing  other  thank  plants...  most  Algae  are  plants...why  will  they  stay  away  when  conditions  are  right  for  it  to  grow?  Even  nature  can  not  fight  them  how  can  we?  We  can  only  redo  the  whole  thing  once  Algae  has  defeated  us...
 
 "Although  some  of  the  steps  in  photosynthesis  are  still  not  completely  understood"  -  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
captamitsharma
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Jun 05, 2005
Posts: 25


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 i  like  the  way  this  thread  is  going  ...................  anybody  got  names  of  brands  and  model  number  of  lamps  available  in  india  for  planted  aquaria  .
 keep  it  up  people  Thumbs Up
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Severumkid
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 3012
Location: Hyderabad

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 People  have  tanks  with  no  algae.  That  is  possible  with  experience  about  your  water  parameters.  Sun  light  creates  algae  is  a  myth.  I  see  plants  growing  crazy  in  sunlight  without  algae  in  many  of  my  outside  posts  and  tumblers  without  Co2  and  ferts.  All  we  need  to  do  is  replicate  the  sunlight   Chuckle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
sunracesuraj
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Posts: 228
Location: Gorai 2, Borivali West, Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:03 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 I  can  say  following  about  LED.
 
 Cree  is  ahead  of  all  as  of  now...  how  long  this  will  last  I  do  not  know  so  make  up  your  mind  fast.
 
 If  you  want  more  red  in  your  spectrum  then  take  these  XPGWHT-H1-0000-00DE7  which  is  Q5  bin,  if  you  want  more  blue  then  take  these  XPGWHT-L1-0000-00G51  (R4  which  I  have  bought)  or  XPGWHT-L1-0000-00H51  (R5  I  am  going  for  these  very  soon).  R4  and  R5  will  give  you  the  best  in  class  lm/W.  Now  as  far  as  W/G  calculation  is  concerned  -  it  really  does  not  apply  100%  in  case  of  LED  as  LEDs  are  focused  and  their  spectrum  is  more  precise  than  any  other  light  source  available  as  of  now.  XPG  are  120  degree  without  optics  -  you  can  buy  20  degree  onwards  for  your  application  depending  on  how  focused  you  want  to  get.  If  you  want  to  go  for  R,G,B  LEDs  then  there  are  1000s  of  them  available  and  are  cheap  as  well.  CREE  will  be  expensive  but  they  last  50,000  hours  if  you  give  them  correct  temp  and  constant  current.  There  is  no  light  source  available  which  can  last  so  long  and  with  so  little  loss  of  efficiency.
 
 I  am  not  fan  of  MH  as  it  is  not  worth  going  for  it  since  I  stay  in  a  area  which  has  high  humidity...today  it  was  77%  so  for  MH  I  will  have  to  run  a  chiller  as  well  to  keep  temp  at  25  or  less.  Chiller  will  cost  five  figures  INR.  Plus  MH  needs  too  much  of  energy  and  needs  to  be  replaced  as  well.  It  will  give  you  good  growth  and  deep  level  as  well  but  then  you  need  to  have  UV  filter  to  keep  green  water  away.  Plus  have  to  be  very  precise  with  ferts,  light  window  and  water  changes.  Excess  of  anything  will  get  you  running  on  toes  all  the  time...  MH  you  can  go  for  any  good  brand  such  as  Philips,  Sylvania,  Osram  or  if  you  want  more  exotic  and  named  after  aquariums  brand  then  there  is  ADA  Smile....  all  light  sources  are  generic  and  they  are  not  designed  for  plants  growth  particularly.
 
 If  you  know  any  one  in  NASA  then  you  can  get  lamps  designed  for  plant  growth  specifically  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_lamp,  http://www.thekrib.com/Lights/sulphur.html,  http://www.ledgrowlightsoutlet.com/nasa-report.html,  http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/news/news/photos/2000/photos00-336.htm  but  the  NASA  way  is  diff  which  I  do  not  know.  Anything  is  possible  provided  you  have  means  and  money  for  it.  The  day  I  will  have  someone  I  can  count  on  in  NASA...I  am  sure  I  will  my  hands  on  that  light  source...  till  then  I  am  sticking  to  LED  :)
 
 Read  this  for  fun....http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/81975-attempting-diy-led-fixture-part-2-a-2.html  and  http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/5957-Designing-and-Making-a-LED-Light-Fixture-for-a-Planted-Tank,  http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/72325-diy-led-luminaire-mkii-may-2010-a.html#post547327  
 
 I  doubt  you  can  be  so  precise  with  any  other  light  source.  I  have  another  link  on  my  laptop...will  post  it  later  which  has  detailed  growth  study  with  PL  and  LED  with  same  type  of  plants  side  by  side.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sunracesuraj
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Posts: 228
Location: Gorai 2, Borivali West, Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:38 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 As  promised....  http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/1009-diy-led-lighting-via-luxeon-stars-2.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saikumar
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 2224
Location: HYD-is-good

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:49 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

                                                   
sunracesuraj  wrote  (View  Post):                
I  can  say  following  about  LED.
 
 Cree  is  ahead  of  all  as  of  now...  how  long  this  will  last  I  do  not  know  so  make  up  your  mind  fast.
 
 If  you  want  more  red  in  your  spectrum  then  take  these  XPGWHT-H1-0000-00DE7  which  is  Q5  bin,  if  you  want  more  blue  then  take  these  XPGWHT-L1-0000-00G51  (R4  which  I  have  bought)  or  XPGWHT-L1-0000-00H51  (R5  I  am  going  for  these  very  soon).  R4  and  R5  will  give  you  the  best  in  class  lm/W.  Now  as  far  as  W/G  calculation  is  concerned  -  it  really  does  not  apply  100%  in  case  of  LED  as  LEDs  are  focused  and  their  spectrum  is  more  precise  than  any  other  light  source  available  as  of  now.  XPG  are  120  degree  without  optics  -  you  can  buy  20  degree  onwards  for  your  application  depending  on  how  focused  you  want  to  get.  If  you  want  to  go  for  R,G,B  LEDs  then  there  are  1000s  of  them  available  and  are  cheap  as  well.  CREE  will  be  expensive  but  they  last  50,000  hours  if  you  give  them  correct  temp  and  constant  current.  There  is  no  light  source  available  which  can  last  so  long  and  with  so  little  loss  of  efficiency.
 
 I  am  not  fan  of  MH  as  it  is  not  worth  going  for  it  since  I  stay  in  a  area  which  has  high  humidity...today  it  was  77%  so  for  MH  I  will  have  to  run  a  chiller  as  well  to  keep  temp  at  25  or  less.  Chiller  will  cost  five  figures  INR.  Plus  MH  needs  too  much  of  energy  and  needs  to  be  replaced  as  well.  It  will  give  you  good  growth  and  deep  level  as  well  but  then  you  need  to  have  UV  filter  to  keep  green  water  away.  Plus  have  to  be  very  precise  with  ferts,  light  window  and  water  changes.  Excess  of  anything  will  get  you  running  on  toes  all  the  time...  MH  you  can  go  for  any  good  brand  such  as  Philips,  Sylvania,  Osram  or  if  you  want  more  exotic  and  named  after  aquariums  brand  then  there  is  ADA  Smile....  all  light  sources  are  generic  and  they  are  not  designed  for  plants  growth  particularly.
 
 If  you  know  any  one  in  NASA  then  you  can  get  lamps  designed  for  plant  growth  specifically  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_lamp,  http://www.thekrib.com/Lights/sulphur.html,  http://www.ledgrowlightsoutlet.com/nasa-report.html,  http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/news/news/photos/2000/photos00-336.htm  but  the  NASA  way  is  diff  which  I  do  not  know.  Anything  is  possible  provided  you  have  means  and  money  for  it.  The  day  I  will  have  someone  I  can  count  on  in  NASA...I  am  sure  I  will  my  hands  on  that  light  source...  till  then  I  am  sticking  to  LED  :)
 
 Read  this  for  fun....http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/81975-attempting-diy-led-fixture-part-2-a-2.html  and  http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/5957-Designing-and-Making-a-LED-Light-Fixture-for-a-Planted-Tank,  http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/72325-diy-led-luminaire-mkii-may-2010-a.html#post547327  
 
 I  doubt  you  can  be  so  precise  with  any  other  light  source.  I  have  another  link  on  my  laptop...will  post  it  later  which  has  detailed  growth  study  with  PL  and  LED  with  same  type  of  plants  side  by  side.                

 
 Thanks  a  lot  mate  Thumb Up  
 
 But  what  about  the  CRI  comparatively?(for  a  planted  view)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
sunracesuraj
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Posts: 228
Location: Gorai 2, Borivali West, Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 Minimum  CRI  for  90-CRI  White  is  90  (XPGWHT-U1-0000-00AE7)...how  much  more  are  we  looking  for?
 Additionally  have  a  read  here...  http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/cri_explained.htm
 "CRI  is  a  quantitatively  measurable  index,  not  a  subjective  one"
 
 More  here...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
 http://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/10/4/3961/pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saikumar
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 2224
Location: HYD-is-good

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 Thanks  again  Suraj.
 
 I  see  from  the  data  sheet  LINK  on  2nd  page,  mentioning  Q2/87.4/XPGWHT-U1-0000-00AE7  at  87lm/W  (correct  me:  I  suppose  its  per  watt,  when  you  say  about  3V  X  350mA)
 
 Which  is  139-87=52lm/W  difference!  when  compared  to  classy  R5/139/XPGWHT-L1-0000-00H51
 
 Secondly,  the  ones  in  4000K  to  8000K  dont  seem  to  have  that  decent  enough  CRI(still  75)  like  examples  from  your  LINK
 
 So,  just  wanna  know  if  CREE  is  yet  to  offer  some  more  efficient  leds  on  this  view+growth  front  for  planted.
 
 Thanks  in  advance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
sunracesuraj
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Posts: 228
Location: Gorai 2, Borivali West, Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 How  do  you  calculate  efficiency  of  a  light  source?  According  to  me  it  is  closer  to  day  light  with  least  energy  consumption.  CREE  LEDs  use  the  least  energy  in  known  easily  available,  affordable  light  sources  and  gives  out  the  most  lm/W  out  put.  If  CRI  is  so  much  concern  that  is  more  that  80  then  there  is  always  some  other  LEDs  as  well...such  as  Nichia  119  H1.  They  will  not  be  as  energy  efficient  as  CREE  but  then  nothing  is  perfect...  http://dmcleish.com/CPF/PDF/NCSL119T-H1_S1003.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
abhitupe
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Aug 12, 2010
Posts: 63
Location: Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 hey...  captamitsharma....  is  your  tank  still  der  wid  u  or  uve  given  it  ??  im  talkin  abt  the  3ft  tank  u  wantd  to  give  away..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
captamitsharma
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Jun 05, 2005
Posts: 25


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 i  have  just  given  it  away  this  evening  abhitupe  ................  and  i  am  getting  a  new  tank  made  it  will  be  36inL  X  22inH  X  24inB  the  front  and  sides  are  gonna  be  extra  clear  glass,  i  was  aiming  for  a  4  ft  tank  but  ran  out  of  space  ,  i  like  the  info  about  lighting  i  am  getting  on  this  thread  i  think  i  am  going  to  go  in  for  10-11  t5  HO  lights  for  this  tank  gonna  have  3in  substrate  at  the  front  and  about  5  at  the  back  do  T5HO  should  do  just  fine  for  that  depth,  i  dont  have  much  experience  with  T5HO  lamps  but  i  hear  they  are  good   Very Happy  
 sunracesuraj  inputs  for  t5ho  lights  are  most  welcome  form  you,  i'm  gonna  mix  and  match  plant  grow  lights  and  6700k  lights,  i  am  also  thinking  of  making  a  photo  journal  of  the  entire  setup  from  start  to  finish  have  already  got  in  touch  with  a  fabricator  who  will  make  a  custom  ceramic  hood  with  all  the  light  fittings  and  fans  on  the  sides  of  the  hood  to  dissipiate  heat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deepak267
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 554
Location: UK, Bengaluru India

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 very  interesting  read..
 
 Deepak
 www.AquariumHomeCare.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
demorphica
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Aug 06, 2007
Posts: 51
Location: Pune

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 hi  captamitsharma,
 
 Waiting  eagerly  for  your  tank  pics   Cheer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
loaches-n-tetras
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 272
Location: Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:19 am Post subject: Re: what MH lamp should i use for my planted aquarium help!! Reply with quote

 i  have  finally  seen  the  light!!!
 among  the  most  wonderful  and  informative  threads  i  have  seen  on  aquarium  lighting  and  its  nuances.     Clapping   Clapping   Clapping  
 but  to  digest  and  assimilate  all  this...     Sad  
 but  im  glad  i  have  a  good  reference  if  and  when  i  can  restart  a  planted  set  up.   tied  for  space  as  of  now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic  Reply to topic   printer-friendly view http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ Forum Index ->  Lighting for Planted Aquaria All times are UTC + 5.5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum




Powered By: phpBB © 2001 - 2006 phpBB Group
Nuke-Evo Conversion By: Evo-Themez | iCGstation v1.0 Template By Ray


[News Feed] [Forums Feed] [Downloads Feed] [Web Links Feed] [Validate robots.txt]


Forum Modification Pack by Revolution-Mods.

PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2006 by Francisco Burzi.
All logos, trademarks and posts in this site are property of their respective owners, all the rest © 2006 by the site owner.
Powered by Nuke-Evolution
[ Page Generation: 6048 Seconds | Memory Usage: 3.22 MB | DB Queries: 123 ]

Do Not Click