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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Latest Acquisition
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Latest Acquisition
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hrishi007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 These  are  available  in  plenty  in  my  hometown.
 Had  kept  them  ages  back.All  i  can  say  is  that  they  are  aggressive  at  times  and  are  jumpers.
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Ashwin
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 Marc  the  confusion  is  due  the  fact.  .  .  you  have  gone  by  Jayram's  book
 
 But  as  per  Dr.  Rema  devi's  paper  on  the  new  species   H  kurali,  she  says  H  kolus  is  a  synonym  of  H  curmuca  
 
 and  she  also  states  that   H  curmuca  and  H  kurali  are  similar  in  charcters,  but  H  curmuca  is  found  in  eastern  drainage  of  western  Ghats  and  H  kurali  in  the  western  drainage  of  the  western  Ghats
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Marc
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 Sure  Ashwin........we  need  to  sort  it  out.  I  am  in  no  way  challenging  Dr.  Rema  Devi.  
 
 Till  date  I  have  not  seen  a  specimen  of  H.  kurali....even  in  ZSI  so  I  am  not  in  a  position  to  elaborate  more  on  H.  kurali.
 
 H.  kurali  is  not  only  in  western  drainages  but  also  from  Tambraparani  which  is  an  east  flowing  drainage  (Menon  1999)
 
 H.  kolus  was  synonimised  based  just  by  description  and  not  referring  to  any  type  material  (i  doubt  even  topotypes)......so  there  is  still  a  group  of  people  who  feel  that  H.  kolus  is  a  valid  species  and  is  a  misapplied  name  to  H.  curmuca.  
 
 As  far  as  my  understanding  goes  H.  kurali  has  eco-morphs  .  So  we  need  a  lot  more  work  on  this  group........  Thumb Up
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Ashwin
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 I  am  not  suggesting  anything  .  .  .and  there  is  a  lot  differences  in  opinions  in  between  the  better  taxonomists  of  the  country  and  we  are  small  fry  with  small  opinions.  To  the  extent  one  group  believes  that  Hypselobarbus  should  be  removed  as  a  genus  all  should  be  brought  under  Puntius.
 
 I  feel  a  lot  of  clarity  is  required  with  this  group  of  this.  You  know  how  this  is  more  challenging  .  .  .   both  the  fishes  in  question  were  found  together.  .  .   so  if  H  curmuca  and  H  kolus  were  synonyms,  there  cannot  be  two  variants  of  same  species  together  in  one  system.
 
   So  if  H  kolus  is  synonym  of  H  curmuca,  if  and  only  'IF'  ,  then  the  other  one  may  be  H  kurali  or  someone  new....
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Marc
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

                                                   
Ashwin  wrote  (View  Post):                
To  the  extent  one  group  believes  that  Hypselobarbus  should  be  removed  as  a  genus  all  should  be  brought  under  Puntius.
                 

 
 I  heard  about  that  discussion  Smile  
 
 
                                                 
Ashwin  wrote  (View  Post):                

 H  curmuca  and  H  kolus  were  synonyms,  there  cannot  be  two  variants  of  same  species  together  in  one  system.
                 

 
 Thats  exactly  what  I  as  an  individual  believe
 
 
                                                 
Ashwin  wrote  (View  Post):                

   So  if  H  kolus  is  synonym  of  H  curmuca,  if  and  only  'IF'  ,  then  the  other  one  may  be  H  kurali  or  someone  new....
                 

 
 You  are  right   Thumb Up
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 H.  thomassi  from  Chalakudy.  Image  courtesy  Andrew  Rao
 
 I  guess  there  are  Hypselobarbus  (Puntius)  jerdoni  also  in  the  lot  (black  tipped  dorsal)
 
 
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Ashwin
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 so  the  confusion  continues.  .  .  we  need  to  great  someone  to  solve  the  puzzle.  The  surprising  part  is  that,  if  it  was  small  sized  fishes  found  in  isolated  zones,  then  the  lack  of  clarity  is  understood,  
 
 But  a  genus  of  such  large  sized  cyprinid  fishes,  which  has  economic  value,  potential  to  candidates  for  aquaculture  (grows  over  2  feet  and  to  over  10  kg)  It  i  very  surprising  that  there  is  no  clarity  
 
 Is  this  and  the  last  fish  identified  as  H  thomasii  similar,  see  the  variance  in  body  depth
 
 http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/PicturesSummary.php?ID=13167&what=species
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Marc
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 I  do  agree  there  is  less  clarity  in  this  group...
 
 You  are  right  about  the  variance.....both  the  fish  (your  pic  and  one  in  fishbase  link)  have  less  than  34  lateral  line  scales.  This  is  the  character  only  seen  in  H.  thomassi  but  there  are  a  lot  of  variation.  Like  you  said  one  would  be  a  sp.  nov.
 
 It  is  great  that  people  like  you  and  Andrew  (people  with  access  to  fish)  are  interested.  I  guess  it  wont  be  long  before  some  clarity  is  worked  out.   Thumb Up
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Ashwin
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 If  all  of  us  contribute,  probably  can  get  some  sort  of  solution  to  this.
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abhis9
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 Aswin,
 
 the  picture  u  posted  in  West  Begal  we  call  them  "Kaliboush"  ....I  think  Beta  is  right....
 
 Here  it  is  sale  as  a  Black  Shark....now  people  are  exporting  them....
 
 Very  very  testy  fish  .....as  they  grow  they  are  getting  more  black  ...very  nice  looking...but  in  W.B  we  love  to  eat  the....sorry  to  say  ....from  childhood  I  seen  them  ...but  now  a  days  it  is  rarely  found  in  market....
 
 Anyway  it's  good  collection...
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beta
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 Are  you  sure  then  ones  that  you  used  to  eat  were  natives.  It  could  be  Labeo  chrysophekadion  as  well.
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Ashwin
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 Abhis9,  the  fish  you  are  talking  about  if  Labeo  calbasu.  .  .   very  common  in  your  area  and  the  fishes  have  similarities.  It  is  cultured  in  the  fish  farms  aslo
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Marc
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

                                                   
abhis9  wrote  (View  Post):                

 the  picture  u  posted  in  West  Begal  we  call  them  "Kaliboush"  ....I  think  Beta  is  right....
                 

 
 I  have  posted  a  few  pics  of  L.  calbasu  shot  by  a  friend.
 
 
 
   
 
 To  be  frank  I  dont  see  any  difference  between  Labeo  nigrescens  and  L.  calbasu  externally.  Both  are  black......  Chuckle  
 
 
 I  dont  know  if  L.  calbasu  is  in  the  ornamental  trade  like  L.  chrysophekadion.
 
 I  guess  all  full  black  sharks  are  not  L.  nigrescens   Smile  
 
 Correct  me  if  I  am  wrong  Thumb Up
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 Sorry  to  crash  the  party  here  :P
 
 The  fish  in  the  OP  looks  more  like  a  L.  calbasu  to  me.  L.  nigrescens  only  has  11  branched  rays  in  the  dorsal  (14-15  in  the  former).  If  a  larger  pic  is  posted,  we  can  double  check  with  scale  counts.  The  only  "verified"  nigrescens  I've  seen  came  from  the  upper  Chalakkudy.
 
 As  to  the  Hypselobarbus,  I'd  hesitate  to  call  the  first  one  kolus.  That  species  should  be  restricted  to  the  Krishna  drainage.  How  many  barbels  does  it  have?  
 
 The  third  looks  to  me  to  belong  to  the  dobsoni  /  jerdoni  group.  thomassi  looks  very  much  like  a  curmuca,  with  fewer  lateral  scales  and  a  pattern  reminiscent  of  adult  Barilius  bendelisis.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Acquisition Reply with quote

 On  the  L.  nigrescens    front.  .  .  the  type  locality  of  L  nigrescens  is  Mangalore  and  the  specimen  has  been  collected  from  Mangalore  region.
 
 There  no  reports  of  L  calbasu  from  our  area.  .  so  far
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