| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Marc
Moderator
Joined: Jun 15, 2010
Posts: 915
Location: Chennai
Status: Offline
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
 |
|
| rasikanayak wrote (View Post):
|
Two Rasbora species have been recorded in India as of now,
1) Rasbora daniconius
2) Rasbora cauverii.
Then what is parluciosoma labiosa???
Note: Words in blue are my doubts.
|
Four are known in India. The other two are Rasbora rasbora and Rasbora labiosa
R. labiosa is distinguished by distinct three lobes in the lower jaw and an incomplete lateral line.
| rasikanayak wrote (View Post):
|
Dorsal fin inserted behind origin of anal fin[/color]
|
when a perpendicular is drawn at the anal fin origin the dorsal fin on the back falls a little behind this line |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nikhilsood1
Regular Poster on IAH
Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 945
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
Around Bangalore. Found in a lake.
[img] [/img] |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marc
Moderator
Joined: Jun 15, 2010
Posts: 915
Location: Chennai
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
R. caverii is my call  |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nikhilsood1
Regular Poster on IAH
Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 945
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
| Thanks Marc. Will try and get some pics of the ones collected from Coorg. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shovelnose
Moderator
Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 1028
Location: Bombay/Madras
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
| Where do Rasbora dandia and R.microcephalus fit in??? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marc
Moderator
Joined: Jun 15, 2010
Posts: 915
Location: Chennai
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
There has been a recent revision by Pethiygoda (which I dont have)
In that the Srilankan and S. indian species are called R. dandia based on complete lateral line vs incomplete
R. cauverii and R. daniconius are brought under R. dandia
R. cauverii known from S. India is now R. microcephalus.
But I have seen specimens of R. dandia (daniconius) with incomplete lateral line (thought to be R. labiosa). So until I get to read the entire review and compare specimens I will still choose to follow our dear old authors Jhingran and Talwar and Jayaram |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gachua1
Regular Poster on IAH
Joined: Sep 08, 2009
Posts: 308
Location: Bangalore
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
Marc,
I have one question. Is the position of the mouth important, while identifying Rasboras?
I noticed that these vary quite a lot in the above posted pictures. In addition to this, I have seen Rasboras with a rather small mouth, whereas some species have very big mouths in comparison to body size.
Thanks in advance
Ben |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marc
Moderator
Joined: Jun 15, 2010
Posts: 915
Location: Chennai
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
As of now I have not seen any key using the mouth position as a key factor.
Maybe future works will consider the mouth position as it the case of P. filamentosus group |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rasikanayak
Moderator
Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 2921
Location: Bangalore
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
| Marc wrote (View Post):
|
| rasikanayak wrote (View Post):
|
Two Rasbora species have been recorded in India as of now,
1) Rasbora daniconius
2) Rasbora cauverii.
Then what is parluciosoma labiosa???
Note: Words in blue are my doubts.
|
Four are known in India. The other two are Rasbora rasbora and Rasbora labiosa
R. labiosa is distinguished by distinct three lobes in the lower jaw and an incomplete lateral line.
| rasikanayak wrote (View Post):
|
Dorsal fin inserted behind origin of anal fin[/color]
|
when a perpendicular is drawn at the anal fin origin the dorsal fin on the back falls a little behind this line
|
Thanks for your patience, Marc. But "Dorsal fin inserted behind origin of anal fin" is not clear.
I drew a perpendicular on the origin of the anal fin. But the dorsal fin appears to be ahead, Not behind? am I making a mistake here? 
There are four species of Rasboras in India. is the following chart OK? The names in the parenthesis is just for academic interest unless and until accepted! So we will follow the accepted names?
I found another paper on the net. Where does this fit in?
http://www.cypriniformes.org/Cypriniformes%20from%20Alfred/Vishwanath&Laisram%202005b%20new%20Rasbora%20from%20Manipur,%20India.pdf
I still have to come to the Keys. Sorry for the late post. Was too busy in work, the earning type 
Regards,
Nayak. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marc
Moderator
Joined: Jun 15, 2010
Posts: 915
Location: Chennai
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
| rasikanayak wrote (View Post):
|
I drew a perpendicular on the origin of the anal fin. But the dorsal fin appears to be ahead, Not behind? am I making a mistake here?
|
Nope I am...........sorry it must be Pelvic fins  consequences of blindly following J&T 1991
Pelvic fins and anal fins are often confused
As far as my little knowledge runs your schematic diagram is correct. But I could be whole lot wrong when the new revision becomes available.
First time I hearing about R. ornatus. Thanks for the paper. Guess we can distinguish it from the lower number of lateral line scales 11-20 vs > 23 in others and higher gill raker count. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rasikanayak
Moderator
Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 2921
Location: Bangalore
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
Its just a typo in the book by J&T, Marc. Forget it
Key to species:
Rasbora labiosa-Lower lip hypertrophied and forms a broad loose membrane round lower jaw with three distinct lobe-like structures. Lateral line incomplete, extends as far as posterior end of Anal fin. Lateral line pores-23 to 31. Lateral line scales 33 to 35. Lateral traverse scales 4/1/1.5. (J&T)
Body almost cylindrical rather than laterally compressed(Brittan)
Rasbora daniconius- Lateral line nearly complete, . Lateral line pores-29 to 32. Lateral line scales 32 to 35. Lateral traverse scales 4.5/1/2.5. (J&T)
Body oblong and compressed.
Rasbora cauverii: No data 
Here are my fishes.........
I have numbered them and not mentioned any river name. This is to prevent any preconceived notions and be biased. I still have #1,2&4. we released #5 back in he wild after we photographed it. #3 took a leap into oblivion in my absence
Regards,
Nayak. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rasikanayak
Moderator
Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 2921
Location: Bangalore
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
| Gachua1 wrote (View Post):
|
Marc,
I have one question. Is the position of the mouth important, while identifying Rasboras?
I noticed that these vary quite a lot in the above posted pictures. In addition to this, I have seen Rasboras with a rather small mouth, whereas some species have very big mouths in comparison to body size.
Thanks in advance
Ben
|
I agree with Ben here.
The mouth structures......
I still have to take the pics of the mouth structure of #4. @#$%^ fishes refuse to pose.
Regards,
Nayak. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rasikanayak
Moderator
Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 2921
Location: Bangalore
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
Check the shape of the head and the lateral stripe.
The lateral stripe very dark turning to gold after the dorsal fin. Head rounded.
The lateral stripe pigmented and very light. The head elongated.
The lateral stripe starts after the eye and looks as if blotted along the scales downward. Head ellipsoidal.
The lateral stripe very sharp(Like the Penguin tetra) and starts from the mouth itself and is present on the eye too. Head elongated.
Cannot make out the lateral stripe. But look at the head shape
That is all from me for now
Regards,
Nayak. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marc
Moderator
Joined: Jun 15, 2010
Posts: 915
Location: Chennai
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
| rasikanayak wrote (View Post):
|
Lateral traverse scales 4/1/1.5. (J&T)
Lateral traverse scales 4.5/1/2.5. (J&T)
|
I have borrowed one of your pics to explain how lateral transverse scales are counted. Hope am clear
4 1/2 is above the lateral line starting from the dorsal fin.
1 is the lateral line scale
1 1/2 or 2 is the row below the lateral line till the base of the pelvic fins
| rasikanayak wrote (View Post):
|
Rasbora cauverii: No data
|
There is some information provided in the page 388 of J&T 1991. I know its not much but just to summarize........
R. caverii - Lateral line scales 36-37 (32 pored). transverse scale rows 7 (not given the breakup). faint marked lateral stripe on side prominant in postrior half of body.
| rasikanayak wrote (View Post):
|
I agree with Ben here.
The mouth structures......
|
Your fish No 1 has a mouth structure I would have id as a R. labiosa but I can see a clear lateral line in the pic of the same fish where you explain the lateral dark band..............so I am not sure cause I have seen R. labiosa with incomplete lateral line (LL reaching only upto pelvic or a couple of scales more)
Just to id them with the available literature
fish 1- R. labiosa (doubtful)
fish 2- R. caverii based on dorsal to hypural distance
fish 3 & 4 - R. daniconius because the lateral band is highly variable (Brittan 1971)
fish 5- I dont know cause I cant see the dorsal insertion point ......could be R. caverii
I sincerely believe if someone can share the new revision by Pethiyagoda it would be very helpful. A lot has been based on lateral transeverse scale counts in the revision. Until we get that I guess we would be blundering and going around in circles |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bhushan
Regular Poster on IAH
Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 695
Location: Houston,Texas
Status: Offline
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India |
|
|
| Great thread guys. Some really nice pictures. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Guest(s): 464
![[News Feed]](images/powered/feed_20_news.png "News Feed"){kind=small}
![[Forums Feed]](images/powered/feed_20_forums.png "Forums Feed"){kind=small}
![[Downloads Feed]](images/powered/feed_20_down.png "Downloads Feed"){kind=small}
![[Web Links Feed]](images/powered/feed_20_links.png "Web Links Feed"){kind=small}
![[Validate robots.txt]](images/powered/valid-robots.png "Validate robots.txt"){kind=small}