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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Rasboras of India
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Rasboras of India
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Marc
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

                                                   
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Two  Rasbora  species  have  been  recorded  in  India  as  of  now,  
 1)  Rasbora  daniconius
 2)  Rasbora  cauverii.
 
 Then  what  is  parluciosoma  labiosa???
 
 Note:  Words  in  blue  are  my  doubts.                

 
 Four  are  known  in  India.  The  other  two  are  Rasbora  rasbora  and  Rasbora  labiosa
 
 R.  labiosa  is  distinguished  by  distinct  three  lobes  in  the  lower  jaw  and  an  incomplete  lateral  line.
 
 
                                                 
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Dorsal  fin  inserted  behind  origin  of  anal  fin[/color]                  

 
 when  a  perpendicular  is  drawn  at  the  anal  fin  origin  the  dorsal  fin  on  the  back  falls  a  little  behind  this  line
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 Around  Bangalore.  Found  in  a  lake.  
 
 [img][/img]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 R.  caverii  is  my  call  Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 Thanks  Marc.  Will  try  and  get  some  pics  of  the  ones  collected  from  Coorg.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 Where  do  Rasbora  dandia  and  R.microcephalus  fit  in???
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 There  has  been  a  recent  revision  by  Pethiygoda  (which  I  dont  have)
 
 In  that  the  Srilankan  and  S.  indian  species  are  called  R.  dandia    based  on  complete  lateral  line  vs  incomplete
 
 R.  cauverii  and  R.  daniconius  are  brought  under  R.  dandia
 
 R.  cauverii  known  from  S.  India  is  now  R.  microcephalus.
 
 But  I  have  seen  specimens  of  R.  dandia  (daniconius)  with  incomplete  lateral  line  (thought  to  be  R.  labiosa).  So  until  I  get  to  read  the  entire  review  and  compare  specimens  I  will  still  choose  to  follow  our  dear  old  authors  Jhingran  and  Talwar  and  Jayaram  Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 Marc,  
 
 I  have  one  question.  Is  the  position  of  the  mouth  important,  while  identifying  Rasboras?
 
 I  noticed  that  these  vary  quite  a  lot  in  the  above  posted  pictures.  In  addition  to  this,  I  have  seen  Rasboras  with  a  rather  small  mouth,  whereas  some  species  have  very  big  mouths  in  comparison  to  body  size.  
 
 Thanks  in  advance
 
 Ben
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 As  of  now  I  have  not  seen  any  key  using  the  mouth  position  as  a  key  factor.  
 
 Maybe  future  works  will  consider  the  mouth  position  as  it  the  case  of  P.  filamentosus  group  Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

                                                   
Marc  wrote  (View  Post):                
                                                 
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Two  Rasbora  species  have  been  recorded  in  India  as  of  now,  
 1)  Rasbora  daniconius
 2)  Rasbora  cauverii.
 
 Then  what  is  parluciosoma  labiosa???
 
 Note:  Words  in  blue  are  my  doubts.                

 
 Four  are  known  in  India.  The  other  two  are  Rasbora  rasbora  and  Rasbora  labiosa
 
 R.  labiosa  is  distinguished  by  distinct  three  lobes  in  the  lower  jaw  and  an  incomplete  lateral  line.
 
 
                                                 
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Dorsal  fin  inserted  behind  origin  of  anal  fin[/color]                  

 
 when  a  perpendicular  is  drawn  at  the  anal  fin  origin  the  dorsal  fin  on  the  back  falls  a  little  behind  this  line                

 Thanks  for  your  patience,  Marc.  But  "Dorsal  fin  inserted  behind  origin  of  anal  fin"  is  not  clear.
 
 I  drew  a  perpendicular  on  the  origin  of  the  anal  fin.  But  the  dorsal  fin  appears  to  be  ahead,  Not  behind?  am  I  making  a  mistake  here?  Confused  
 
 There  are  four  species  of  Rasboras  in  India.  is  the  following  chart  OK?  The  names  in  the  parenthesis  is  just  for  academic  interest  unless  and  until  accepted!  So  we  will  follow  the  accepted  names?
 
 
 I  found  another  paper  on  the  net.  Where  does  this  fit  in?
 http://www.cypriniformes.org/Cypriniformes%20from%20Alfred/Vishwanath&Laisram%202005b%20new%20Rasbora%20from%20Manipur,%20India.pdf
 
 I  still  have  to  come  to  the  Keys.  Sorry  for  the  late  post.  Was  too  busy  in  work,  the  earning  type  Very Happy  
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

                                                   
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                
I  drew  a  perpendicular  on  the  origin  of  the  anal  fin.  But  the  dorsal  fin  appears  to  be  ahead,  Not  behind?  am  I  making  a  mistake  here?  Confused  
                 

 
 Nope  I  am...........sorry  it  must  be  Pelvic  fins  Knock  consequences  of  blindly  following  J&T  1991
 
 Pelvic  fins  and  anal  fins  are  often  confused  Very Happy  
 
 As  far  as  my  little  knowledge  runs  your  schematic  diagram  is  correct.  But  I  could  be  whole  lot  wrong  when  the  new  revision  becomes  available.  
 
 First  time  I  hearing  about  R.  ornatus.  Thanks  for  the  paper.  Guess  we  can  distinguish  it  from  the  lower  number  of  lateral  line  scales  11-20  vs  >  23  in  others  and  higher  gill  raker  count.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 Its  just  a  typo  in  the  book  by  J&T,  Marc.  Forget  it  Smile  
 
 Key  to  species:
 
 Rasbora  labiosa-Lower  lip  hypertrophied  and  forms  a  broad  loose  membrane  round  lower  jaw  with  three  distinct  lobe-like  structures.  Lateral  line  incomplete,  extends  as  far  as  posterior  end  of  Anal  fin.  Lateral  line  pores-23  to  31.  Lateral  line  scales  33  to  35.  Lateral  traverse  scales  4/1/1.5.  (J&T)
 Body  almost  cylindrical  rather  than  laterally  compressed(Brittan)
 
 Rasbora  daniconius-  Lateral  line  nearly  complete,  .  Lateral  line  pores-29  to  32.  Lateral  line  scales  32  to  35.  Lateral  traverse  scales  4.5/1/2.5.  (J&T)
 Body  oblong  and  compressed.
 
 Rasbora  cauverii:  No  data  Sad  
 
 Here  are  my  fishes.........
 I  have  numbered  them  and  not  mentioned  any  river  name.  This  is  to  prevent  any  preconceived  notions   and  be  biased.  Smile   I  still  have  #1,2&4.  we  released  #5  back  in  he  wild  after  we  photographed  it.  #3  took  a  leap  into  oblivion  in  my  absence  Sad  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

                                                   
Gachua1  wrote  (View  Post):                
Marc,  
 
 I  have  one  question.  Is  the  position  of  the  mouth  important,  while  identifying  Rasboras?
 
 I  noticed  that  these  vary  quite  a  lot  in  the  above  posted  pictures.  In  addition  to  this,  I  have  seen  Rasboras  with  a  rather  small  mouth,  whereas  some  species  have  very  big  mouths  in  comparison  to  body  size.  
 
 Thanks  in  advance
 
 Ben                

 I  agree  with  Ben  here.  
 The  mouth  structures......
 
 
 
 I  still  have  to  take  the  pics  of  the  mouth  structure  of  #4.  @#$%^  fishes  refuse  to  pose.
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 Check  the  shape  of  the  head  and  the  lateral  stripe.
 
 The  lateral  stripe  very  dark  turning  to  gold  after  the  dorsal  fin.  Head  rounded.
 
 
 The  lateral  stripe  pigmented  and  very  light.  The  head  elongated.
 
 
 The  lateral  stripe  starts  after  the  eye  and  looks  as  if  blotted  along  the  scales  downward.  Head  ellipsoidal.
 
 
 The  lateral  stripe  very  sharp(Like  the  Penguin  tetra)  and  starts  from  the  mouth  itself  and  is  present  on  the  eye  too.  Head  elongated.
 
 
 Cannot  make  out  the  lateral  stripe.  But  look  at  the  head  shape
 
 
 That  is  all  from  me  for  now  Very Happy  
 
 Regards,
 Nayak.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

                                                   
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                
 Lateral  traverse  scales  4/1/1.5.  (J&T)
   Lateral  traverse  scales  4.5/1/2.5.  (J&T)
                 

 
 I  have  borrowed  one  of  your  pics  to  explain  how  lateral  transverse  scales  are  counted.  Hope  am  clear   Smile  
 4  1/2  is  above  the  lateral  line  starting  from  the  dorsal  fin.  
 1  is  the  lateral  line  scale
 1  1/2  or  2  is  the  row  below  the  lateral  line  till  the  base  of  the  pelvic  fins
 
 
 
 
                                                 
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Rasbora  cauverii:  No  data  Sad  
                 

 
 There  is  some  information  provided  in  the  page  388  of  J&T  1991.  I  know  its  not  much  but  just  to  summarize........
 
 R.  caverii  -  Lateral  line  scales  36-37  (32  pored).  transverse  scale  rows  7  (not  given  the  breakup).  faint  marked  lateral  stripe  on  side  prominant  in  postrior  half  of  body.
 
 
                                                 
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                

 I  agree  with  Ben  here.  
 The  mouth  structures......
                 

 
 Your  fish  No  1  has  a  mouth  structure  I  would  have  id  as  a  R.  labiosa  but  I  can  see  a  clear  lateral  line  in  the  pic  of  the  same  fish  where  you  explain  the  lateral  dark  band..............so  I  am  not  sure  cause  I  have  seen  R.  labiosa  with  incomplete  lateral  line  (LL  reaching  only  upto  pelvic  or  a  couple  of  scales  more)
 
 Just  to  id  them  with  the  available  literature  
 
 fish  1-  R.  labiosa  (doubtful)
 fish  2-  R.  caverii  based  on  dorsal  to  hypural  distance
 fish  3  &  4  -  R.  daniconius    because  the  lateral  band  is  highly  variable  (Brittan  1971)
 fish  5-  I  dont  know  cause  I  cant  see  the  dorsal  insertion  point  ......could  be  R.  caverii
 
 I  sincerely  believe  if  someone  can  share  the  new  revision  by  Pethiyagoda  it  would  be  very  helpful.  A  lot  has  been  based  on  lateral  transeverse  scale  counts  in  the  revision.  Until  we  get  that  I  guess  we  would  be  blundering  and  going  around  in  circles  Sad
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Bhushan
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Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 695
Location: Houston,Texas

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Rasboras of India Reply with quote

 Great  thread  guys.  Some  really  nice  pictures.
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