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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Camera phones and P&S
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Camera phones and P&S
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

                                                   
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                

 I  believe  the  shallow  DOF(Depth  of  focus)  pictures  are  called  "The  Bokeh  effect"  Smile  
                 

 
 Just  a  small  difference  Nayak.  DoF  is  the  area  where  your  subject  is  sharp  ie.,  the  in-focus  area  whereas  Bokeh  is  the  quality  of  the  blur.
 
 
                                                 
Nayak  wrote:                

 Let  me  give  an  example.  Sonakshi  Sinha  and  Sonam  Kapoor  are  two  of  the  most  loveliest  and  Pretty  faces  in  the  Bollywood  today.  But  show  me  a  picture  of  theirs  where  the  former  has  not  highlighted  her  expressive  eye  with  eye  liner  or  the  latter  her  sensuous  lips  with  lipstick?  Even  having  very  photogenic  faces,  they  still  have  the  need  to  highlight  their  best  assets.
                 

 I've  always  been  a  fan  of  your  yummy  examples  rasika.   Very Happy  
 
 
                                                 
Nayak  wrote:                

 You  cannot  make  a  bad  picture  beautiful  by  editing  it.  But  you  can  make  a  good  picture  even  more  beautiful  by  editing  its  strong  points  and  presenting  it  to  the  best  effect.  This  is  where  the  indispensable  secondary  process  of  using  editing  software  comes  into  play.  Hope  my  point  is  clear.
                 

 
 Very  true  Nayak.   What  we  can  do?  Most  of  the  time  we  add  a  bit  of  contrast  and  crop  to  get  the  composition  with  a  better  feel.   What  we  can't  do?   No  amount  of  PP  could  cover  up  an  under  exposed  part  or  a  blown  out  area  which  has  lost  its  detail  completely.   Your  histogram  will  tell  you  more  than  anyone  else.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 Nayak  your  idea  of  best  assets  are  putanical  !
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

                                                   
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Nayak  your  idea  of  best  assets  are  putanical  !                

 Madan  -  I  remember  his  asset  views  on  Ekta  Kapoor  created  havoc  here  in  the  past.  ROFL   ROFL
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hayath_dyno
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 lol  at  Nayak's  take  on  "presentation"  Chuckle  
 
 Agree  totally  on  the  matter,  there  is  a  lot  of  "detail"  that  can  be  brought  out  which  is  present  in  the  shot.  A  simple  curve  correction  or  contrast  boost  is  needed  in  most  cases  since  not  all  lenses  have  good  local  contrast.
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Arnab
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 Nayak.
 
 Thank  you  for  your  observations.  I  thought  to  add  a  little  more   Very Happy  
 
 "...second  picture  of  Neon  is  not  that  sharp.  How  do  you  manage  the  sharpness?  "
 
 That  is  the  problem  I  have  mentioned  and  there  are  lots  of  misses(~90%)  but  I  like  the  hits.  I  have  tried  the  on  camera  flash  but  the  results  are  not  flattering  as  far  as  I  am  concerned.  I  think  that  the  natural  colors  take  a  hit.  Probably  I  am  doing  it  wrong.  I  was  never  a  fan  of  using  the  flash  though.
 
 I  like  the  idea  of  an  external  flash  firing  from  top  but  do  not  have  the  equipment  yet.
 
 I  will  soon  be  migrating  to  a  so  called  EVIL  camera  (E-PL1)  and  will  be  reunited  with  my  Zuikos.  The  bigger  sensor  and  faster  lenses  should  allow  me  more  keepers  without  flash.  I  will  also  be  trying  out  the  top  firing  external  flash.  
 
 "We  expect  the  first  picture  we  take  to  come  good,  and  we  treat  the  secondary  process  of  editing  as  something  we  should  be  ashamed  off.  This  mindset  is  wrong!!!!!  "
 
   Smile  I  guess  this  is  the  Chrome  era  mentality  creeping  into  the  Digital  era  for  me.  It  is  not  about  expecting  the  first  pic  to  come  out  correct  but  wanting  to  take  all  the  pictures  correctly  (wasting  one  slide  was  a  costly  mistake).  
 
 Extending  your  luscious  examples   Cheering  the  net  is  scattered  with  before  after  pictures  where  the  original  and  finished  products  are  hard  to  relate.  Where  do  we  draw  the  line?
 
 Actually  I  hardly  get  time  for  the  post  processing  effort  other  than  a  quick  sharpen  or  a  little  gamma  correction  or  saturation  manipulation.  I  do  this  if  my  mental  picture  of  the  scene  differs  from  the  one  I  see  on  the  screen.  
 
 The  pictures  I  uploaded  were  specifically  left  untouched  as  I  wanted  to  demonstrate  the  no  flash  effect.  
 
 "The  Bokeh  effect"  
 That  will  the  out  of  focus  background  and  the  bokeh  can  be  ugly  or  pretty  depending  on  the  quality  and  type  of  the  lens.  Eg:  Mirror  lenses  leave  doughnut  shaped  bokehs
 
 I  hope  no  one  minds  this  non-fishy  example
 
 
 Warm  regards.
 Arnab.
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rasikanayak
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

                                                   
coldfear39  wrote  (View  Post):                
Some  of  the  snaps  I  have  taken  last  week
 
 Camera-  Nikon  Cool  Pix  L20
 ISO:  800
 Exposure:  1/17  sec
 Aperture:  3.1
 Focal  Length:  6.7mm
 Flash  Used:  No
 
 One  of  my  friend  rightly  said  I  have  'Burned'  the  image  but  still  wanted  to  share  the  side  effect  of  flash   Smile  
 
 Camera-  Nikon  Cool  Pix  L20
 ISO:  64
 Exposure:  1/30  sec
 Aperture:  5.5
 Focal  Length:  6.7mm
 Flash  Used:  Yes
 
 
 ISO:  672
 Exposure:  1/80  sec
 Aperture:  3.1
 Focal  Length:  6.7mm
 Flash  Used:  No
 
 
 ISO:  400
 Exposure:  1/38  sec
 Aperture:  5.5
 Focal  Length:  6.7mm
 Flash  Used:  Yes
 
 
 ISO:  800
 Exposure:  1/33  sec
 Aperture:  3.1
 Focal  Length:  6.7mm
 Flash  Used:  No
 
 Please  comment  on  the  areas  I  need  to  improve  and  also  suggestions  Smile  And  I  am  yet  to  learn  photoshop  so  none  of  the  images  are  edited                

 
 Nikon  Coolpix  L20  is  a  cool  camera.
 But  in  your  pictures  the  camera  got  confused  since  there  is  not  much  contrast  between  the  substrate,  decors  and  the  shrimps.  Hence  it  did  not  focus  well  in  auto  focus  on  the  shrimps.  Secondly  if  you  check,  The  ISO  on  all  your  pics  except  your  second  image  with  the  "burned"  shot,  is  very  high.  Not  having  a  image  stabiliser,  The  camera  automatically  increased  the  ISO  to  compensate  for  any  shake!  I  will  post  the  solution  for  this  in  the  coming  post.
 
 For  now,  
 Set  it  on  macro  mode
 White  balance-Auto
 Color  options-  You  decide
 Scene  mode-  Any  action/Sport/Portrait/Face  detection(choose  any  one  and  experiment)
 Click  the  picture
 Open  the  picture  from  our  PC(After  downloading  it)  in  Microsoft  office  picture  manager
 Click  on  auto  correct(If  not  happy  revert  back)
 Go  to  Edit  pictures
 Select  crop  and  crop  till  you  get  the  right  composition
 Click  on  resize  image(Select  800*600px)
 save  and  show  it  to  us  Very Happy  
 
 Cropping  is  very  important  since  the  main  advantage  of  your  camera  is  the  10  mega  pixel  it  has.  This  is  your  trump  card  and  use  it!
 Here  is  something  for  further  read...
 http://www.trustedreviews.com/digital-cameras/review/2009/04/02/Nikon-CoolPix-L19-and-L20/p1
 
 Regards,
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rasikanayak
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

                                                   
madhu_ulysses  wrote  (View  Post):                
                                                 
rasikanayak  wrote  (View  Post):                

 I  believe  the  shallow  DOF(Depth  of  focus)  pictures  are  called  "The  Bokeh  effect"  Smile  
                 

 
 Just  a  small  difference  Nayak.  DoF  is  the  area  where  your  subject  is  sharp  ie.,  the  in-focus  area  whereas  Bokeh  is  the  quality  of  the  blur.
 
 
                                                 
Nayak  wrote:                

 Let  me  give  an  example.  Sonakshi  Sinha  and  Sonam  Kapoor  are  two  of  the  most  loveliest  and  Pretty  faces  in  the  Bollywood  today.  But  show  me  a  picture  of  theirs  where  the  former  has  not  highlighted  her  expressive  eye  with  eye  liner  or  the  latter  her  sensuous  lips  with  lipstick?  Even  having  very  photogenic  faces,  they  still  have  the  need  to  highlight  their  best  assets.
                 

 I've  always  been  a  fan  of  your  yummy  examples  rasika.   Very Happy                  

 Thanks  for  the  clarification  on  both  the  above  quotes   Very Happy  
 
 
                                                 
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Nayak  your  idea  of  best  assets  are  putanical  !
                 

 Madan,  Those  were  the  safest  assets  I  could  comment  on  without  getting  into  serious  trouble  Sad  
 
 
                                                 
Yogesh  wrote  (View  Post):                

                                                   
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Nayak  your  idea  of  best  assets  are  putanical  !                

 Madan  -  I  remember  his  asset  views  on  Ekta  Kapoor  created  havoc  here  in  the  past.  ROFL   ROFL
                 

 That's  all  in  the  notorious  past  Chuckle  
 
 
                                                 
alpha91  wrote  (View  Post):                

                                                   
Quote:                
Read  the  above  two  quotes.  That  is  the  typical  mindset  of  us  learning  hobbyists.  We  expect  the  first  picture  we  take  to  come  good,  and  we  treat  the  secondary  process  of  editing  as  something  we  should  be  ashamed  off.  This  mindset  is  wrong!!!!!                

 
 Agree  wholeheartedly!!  
 That  is  stage  1.  In  denial  of  Post  Processing
 Stage  2  is  where  you  try  to  pass  off  bad  pictures  under  the  guise  of  not  knowing  good  enough  PP  techniques.  (This  is  the  stage  i  am  currently  at  Razz
                 

 Shubhankar,  You  and  bad  pictures  do  not  rhyme  No Way  
 
 
                                                 
hayath_dyno  wrote  (View  Post):                

 lol  at  Nayak's  take  on  "presentation"  Chuckle  
 
 Agree  totally  on  the  matter,  there  is  a  lot  of  "detail"  that  can  be  brought  out  which  is  present  in  the  shot.  A  simple  curve  correction  or  contrast  boost  is  needed  in  most  cases  since  not  all  lenses  have  good  local  contrast.
                 

 Thanks  for  the  support  regarding  editing,  Hayath.  People  simply  do  not  accept  the  fact  that  post  processing(PP)  is  a   necessity  for  all  photographers.
 
 Regards,
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coldfear39
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 Thanks  a  ton  Nayak  Ji,  I  also  didnt  know  that  my  old  camera  has  so  many  options   Sad  
 I  have  taken  the  images  at  5mp,  so  I  will  increase  it  to  10mp,  click  some  images,  crop  it  and  will  share  it.
 Nayak  Ji,  one  more  small  clarification,  in  macro  mode  a  green  dot  appears  which  I  feel  shows  the  movement  of  the  object  or  its  surroundings.
 So  while  clicking  the  image  in  macro  mode  what  should  I  look  after?  The  stability  of  the  image  or  the  stability  of  the  green  dot?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

                                                   
Arnab  wrote  (View  Post):                
My  two  bits.  
 I  like  to  take  pictures  with  ambient  light  and  no  flash.  This  requires  wide  open  aperture  and  very  low  shutter  speeds.  The  ISO  is  either  80  or  100  other  wise  the  noise  is  just  too  high.  The  low  shutter  speed  becomes  a  problem  with  fish  as  the  S3  cannot  go  beyond  F2.7.  How  I  miss  my  Zuiko  50mm  f1.8.   Crying or Very sad  
 Warm  regards.
 Arnab.                

 Arnab,  I  am  confused  here.  Are  you  clicking  in  Manual  mode?  Are  you  using  a  tripod?
 
 
                                                 
Arnab  wrote  (View  Post):                
.  I  have  tried  the  on  camera  flash  but  the  results  are  not  flattering  as  far  as  I  am  concerned.  I  think  that  the  natural  colors  take  a  hit.  Probably  I  am  doing  it  wrong.  I  was  never  a  fan  of  using  the  flash  though.
 
 I  like  the  idea  of  an  external  flash  firing  from  top  but  do  not  have  the  equipment  yet.
 
 I  will  soon  be  migrating  to  a  so  called  EVIL  camera  (E-PL1)  and  will  be  reunited  with  my  Zuikos.  The  bigger  sensor  and  faster  lenses  should  allow  me  more  keepers  without  flash.  I  will  also  be  trying  out  the  top  firing  external  flash.  
 Warm  regards.
 Arnab.                

 Regarding  flash,  it  depends.
 
 Burnt  out.
 
 Camera-Sony   DSC   H-5     
 Date:   04-Oct-2010     
 Flash:  used   EV:   0.0  
 Focal   length-   28.4mm     
 Exposure:   1/100     
 F   number:   f/3.5   
 White   balance-   Auto     
 Metering   mode:   Center   weight  
 Exposure   program:   Shutter  Priority        
 ISO:   80
 
 Good  shot.
 
 Camera-Sony   DSC   H-5     
 Date:   04-Oct-2010     
 Flash:  used(-1.0)   EV:   0.0  
 Focal   length-   19.8mm     
 Exposure:   1/100     
 F   number:   f/3.5   
 White   balance-   Auto     
 Metering   mode:   Center   weight  
 Exposure   program:   Shutter  Priority        
 ISO:   80
 
 Under  exposed.
 
 Date:   06-Oct-2010     
 Flash:  Not  used   EV:   0.0  
 Focal   length-   13.5mm     
 Exposure:   1/30   
 F   number:   f/3.5   
 White   balance-   Auto     
 Metering   mode:   Center   weight  
 Exposure   program:   Shutter  Priority        
 ISO:   320
 
 Regards,
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rasikanayak
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 To  summarize  till  now.....
 
 We  have  covered
 1)  The  auto  mode
 Camera  decides  every  thing  except  EV  and  Macro  mode  and  flash(On/Off)  which  we  can  set.  
 
 2)  The  auto  programme  mode.(Some  P&S  might  not  have  this)
 camera  decides  Shutter  speed,  F  stop(Aperture  opening).  We  can  set  flash,Macro,  EV,ISO,  contrast,  sharpness,  Color,  metering  mode  and  white  balance.
 
 3)  The  Aperture  priority  mode(Some  P&S  might  not  have  this.  Use  portrait,  Night  or  face  recognition  modes  in  such  camera's)
 Camera  decides  the  Shutter  speed.  We  can  set  F  number,  flash,Macro,  EV,ISO,  contrast,  sharpness,  Color,  metering  mode  and  white  balance.
 Lower  the  F  number,  higher  the  Aperture  opening.  
 Higher  the  aperture  opening,  lower  the  DOF.  This  causes  the  main  subject  "fish  or  aquatic  plant"  to  come  sharp  and  the  background  to  be  blurred.
 Good  for  capturing  slow  moving  fishes  like  Loaches,  Cichlids  etc.
 
 Secondary  points....
 EV:  As  a  thumb  rule  keep  it  0.0  or  better  go  to  the  negative  side.
 Macro:  Choose  it  when  you  want  to  take  a  close  up  of  your  fish.  
 ISO:  Lower  the  ISO  number  lesser  the  noise.  The  noise  appears  as  grains  on  the  pictures.  Lesser  the  light  available  better  go  for  higher  ISO.
 
 Flash:
 Light  is  one  of  the  most  important  aspect  of  any  photograph.  Its  priority  for  a  good  picture  can  never  be  over  stated!
 Lighting  for  the  aquarium  consists  of  two  aspects.  Ambient  and  flash.
 Ambient  light  can  be  controlled  depending  on  individual  conditions.  Flash  intensity  can  be  increased  or  decreased  in  some  P&S.  But  for  others  tape  a  tissue  paper  or  other  type  of  semi-transparent  material  over  the  flash  to  control  the  intensity.  Keep  the  camera  at  an  angle  as  close  to  the  front  glass  of  the  aquarium  as  possible  to  reduce  glare.
 Using  or  disabling  flash  depends  on  individual  taste.  But  keep  your  options  open  depending  on  the  situation  at  hand!
 
 Flash  used
 
 Flash  not  used
 
 
 Flash  used
 
 Flash  not  used
 
 
 Flash  used
 
 Flash  not  used
 
 
 
 Next:  Shutter  speed  mode,  For  action  and  fast  moving  fishes.
 
 Regards,
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 Nayak,  I  completely  lost  the  track  of  this  thread.  A  couple  of  busy  weeks  and  the  world  suddenly  looks  different!   Very Happy  
 
 A  few  pics  from  my  P&S,  Olympus  8010.
 
 Discus  -  Perhaps  one  of  the  easiest  fish  to  picture.
 
 
 E.  canarensis.  The  mistake  -  Make  sure  the  front  glass  is  free  of  dust.  A  good  camera  captures  everything!
 
 
 Great  White  Tooth  -  When  it  comes  to  object  photography,  make  sure  the  background  colour  supports  the  subject.  A  good  contrast,  the  better.  In  this  case,  a  dark  chair  came  in  handy.
 
 
 N.  atherinoides.  Sometimes  when  you  target  a  subject  fish,  there  is  sometimes  another  species  that  barges  in  to  the  picture.  The  combination  may  not  appear  pleasing  to  the  eye.  Crop  it.
 
 
 Just  the  Bubbles  -  The  ripples  over  the  water,  makes  the  underwater  view  distorted  and  sometimes  it  looks  good!
 
 
 Fusion  -  Just  looking  at  the  aquarium  for  an  extreme  angle,  was  an  excellent  preview.  Luckily  I  had  my  cam  in  my  pocket.  :  )
 
 
 
 ..more  pics  later.
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Arnab
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 Nayak
 
 "Arnab,  I  am  confused  here.  Are  you  clicking  in  Manual  mode?  Are  you  using  a  tripod?  "
 
 I  use  manual  exposure  mode.  I  do  not  use  a  tripod.  
 
 Regarding  the  flash  usage,   I  find  that  the  on-camera  flash  tends  to  either  burout  or  distort  the  colours.  The  with  and  without  flash  pictures  seem  to  be  supporting  that  view.  
 
 It  will  be  helpful  to  know  different  experiences  with  examples  using  the  on-camera  flash.  
 
 Thank  you  for  having  the  idea  of  this  informative  thread.
 
 Warm  regards.
 Arnab.
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Marc
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 Took  a  pic  of  my  Badis  badis..........
 
 
 
 Camera-Olympus  SP  570UZ     
 Flash:  +  0.3  
 Program:   Aperture  Priority  
 F  -  4.0        
 Mode-  Macro
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rasikanayak
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 Marc,  Nice  capture  Clapping  
 
 Arnab,  No  tripod  and  such  sharp  pictures  at  F-stop-2.71,  Shutter  speed-1/5sec,  and  ISO100  Surprised  
 You  must  have  rock  steady  hands.
 
 Your  Idea  of  using  flash  light  as  a  impromptu  flash  is  a  very  good  Idea.  Will  try  and  use  it  Very Happy  
 
 
                                                 
Arnab  wrote  (View  Post):                
Nayak.
 I  will  soon  be  migrating  to  a  so  called  EVIL  camera  (E-PL1)  and  will  be  reunited  with  my  Zuikos.  The  bigger  sensor  and  faster  lenses  should  allow  me  more  keepers  without  flash.  I  will  also  be  trying  out  the  top  firing  external  flash.  
 Warm  regards.
 Arnab.                

 Best  of  luck  with  your  new  camera  Smile  
 
 
                                                 
Arnab  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Extending  your  luscious  examples   Cheering  the  net  is  scattered  with  before  after  pictures  where  the  original  and  finished  products  are  hard  to  relate.  Where  do  we  draw  the  line?
 Actually  I  hardly  get  time  for  the  post  processing  effort  other  than  a  quick  sharpen  or  a  little  gamma  correction  or  saturation  manipulation.  I  do  this  if  my  mental  picture  of  the  scene  differs  from  the  one  I  see  on  the  screen.  
 Warm  regards.
 Arnab.                

 Arnab,  
 We,  the  Photographers  have  to  draw  the  line  ourselves  if  we  do  not  want  to  loose  credibility.  Members  of  IAH  are  a  discerning  lot.  They  will  immediately  differentiate  between  (Aunty)Chachi420  and  Sonakshi  Sinha  Chuckle  
 
 Here  is  what  I  do  when  I  want  to  use  low  F-stop,  Low  shutter  speed  and  low  ISO  at  ambient  light.
 
 Clicked,  camera  held  in  hand.  My  A.blockii  breeding  tank.
 
 Camera-Sony   DSC   H-5     
 Date:   13-March-2011     
 Flash:  Not  used   EV:   0.0  
 Focal   length-   6.0mm     
 Exposure:   1.3  Sec   
 F   number:   f/3.5     
 White   balance-   Auto     
 Metering   mode:   Center   weight  
 Exposure   program:   Aperture  Priority        
 ISO:   80  
 
 Camera,  on  Fourpod!
 
 Camera-Sony   DSC   H-5     
 Date:   13-March-2011     
 Flash:  Not  used   EV:   0.0  
 Focal   length-   6.0mm     
 Exposure:   1.3  Sec   
 F   number:   f/3.5     
 White   balance-   Auto     
 Metering   mode:   Center   weight  
 Exposure   program:   Aperture  Priority        
 ISO:   80
 Timer-  5  10  Sec
 
 The  ingenious  fourpod!  Patent  #142356  pending.
 
 
 The  fourpod,  and  the  camera  timer  in  action.  To  take  pics  at  Low  F-stop,  Shutter  speed  and  ISO  number.
 
 
 Regards,
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Camera phones and P&S Reply with quote

 Fourpod  is  really  amazing,  impeccable  balance.  Clapping
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